Top Quality Food

[Danois]

Actually It's not marketing spiel that kibble helps with dental hygiene. There are studies that support the statements.  Here is an organisation of professionals who have validated certain studies for products - http://www.vohc.org/index.html

 

Generally the benefit comes from the larger size kibble or the shape of it - which works in an abrasive way. Further, in dental specific kibble there is an additive in it which targets plaque or tartar. 

 

Of course, kibble alone is never going to be enough. 

[Papillon Kisses]

Oh Pandi, you’re not stupid at all for cleaning your dog’s teeth! That makes you a top dog owner in my eyes and to any vet! As I mentioned in your other thread it is the gold standard of at-home dental care.

 

Imagine how terrible your teeth would be if you never brushed them? Now imagine if you never brushed your teeth and never went to the dentist? With the back teeth, plaque may have hardened into tartar, which cannot be bushed off. Speak to your vet about the best way forward.

 

Some websites you may like to check out:

http://www.vohc.org/accepted_products.html

http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/AVA_website/pdfs/NSW_Division/Dental Homecare.pdf

http://www.sydneypetdentistry.com.au/client-faqs/

http://bellambivet.blogspot.com.au/search?q=Dental&m=1

[Rascalmyshadow]

On 04/01/2018 at 9:35 PM, The Spotted Devil said:

Sorry but drinking extra water is not bad for kidneys. Diluted urine can actually prevent issues like kidney stones and UTIs. 

 

I feed Artemis dry - floated not soaked in water - plus yoghurt or sardines or raw egg. 2-3 nights a week I substitute with RMBs....chicken frames, lamb necks or turkey wings. Anything non weight bearing. Sometimes fed frozen or half frozen. Treats include cheese, 4 Legs et al. , diced hearts, minced frames, beef mince and various quality dried products. I’m a little more limited because my Dally needs a low purine diet. The Spaniels eat anything. 

Do some research about EXCESSIVE water intake, it is very bad for dogs kidneys, the same as humans.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Rascalmyshadow

[Rascalmyshadow]

Canned food is also not great for the teeth but it isn't as bad as dry food as it leaves less particles trapped between the teeth.

 

Brisket bones are good, I generally use rib bones then throw out the unfinished bits. 

I also used to give them very small marrow bones but since moving none of the local butchers have them.

 

If I find the odd bit of tartar on my dogs teeth I just use my finger nail to remove it.

 

[Rascalmyshadow]

18 hours ago, Danois said:

Actually It's not marketing spiel that kibble helps with dental hygiene. There are studies that support the statements.  Here is an organisation of professionals who have validated certain studies for products - http://www.vohc.org/index.html

 

Generally the benefit comes from the larger size kibble or the shape of it - which works in an abrasive way. Further, in dental specific kibble there is an additive in it which targets plaque or tartar. 

 

Of course, kibble alone is never going to be enough. 

There is no dry food that is good for teeth, they are all crunched up too quickly and leave trapped particles between dogs teeth, doesn't matter how big the pieces are.

 

The marketing and consumption of dry foods is one of the biggest causes of an increase in dental issues in dogs along with crappy breeding.

[The Spotted Devil]

Excessive water drinking is litres and litres usually by human athletes OR an animal that actually has an underlying disease or a psychological issue. 

 

Dry food plus water is not excessive. 

 

Oh and I read the peer reviewed research because I’m a scientist. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by The Spotted Devil

[Danois]

Glad you came back in TSD! I was going to say the same thing - excessive water intake is exactly that - excessive intake usually from dogs who spend prolonged periods in pools/ sea etc

[Danois]

4 hours ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

There is no dry food that is good for teeth, they are all crunched up too quickly and leave trapped particles between dogs teeth, doesn't matter how big the pieces are.

 

The marketing and consumption of dry foods is one of the biggest causes of an increase in dental issues in dogs along with crappy breeding.

Do you have the research to support that claim? I haven't seen anything that has contributed to increase in availability of dry to increase dental health. 

 

Research I have seen supports benefit of abrasiveness and mechanical action of chewing dry food on helping prevent tartar etc. The fact VOHC (look at the composition of the members) gives a tick to certain products also supports that - given they independently review the studies etc

 

I am also curious about the breeding point. How does breeding related to plaque and tartar build up on teeth?

[Rascalmyshadow]

Am trying to track down the actual research that has been done.

Also after working with 50+ dogs a week for 23 years majority of the dogs with serious dental issues have been on a dry food only diet. Dental issues are also hereditary, bad genetics is a factor in gum disease and dental issues, dogs bred with pushed in faces, over crowded teeth, under shot and over shot jaws etc all these factors contribute to dental problems.

 

Have had customers and my own dogs trial so called dental dry food over the years when I worked in a vet clinic didn't see an improvement in a single dog.

Maybe you can explain to me how a piece of dry food that breaks up when a dog crunches it in a few seconds is of any benefit?

 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Rascalmyshadow

[Rascalmyshadow]

3 hours ago, The Spotted Devil said:

Excessive water drinking is litres and litres usually by human athletes OR an animal that actually has an underlying disease or a psychological issue. 

 

Dry food plus water is not excessive. 

 

Oh and I read the peer reviewed research because I’m a scientist. 

Over time the constant excessive drinking does cause issues, I've seen enough and read enough to disagree it isn't a problem.

 

 

[PossumCorner]

On ‎4‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 2:12 PM, Rascalmyshadow said:

.... Have you considered adding in daily a high quality tinned food  ...

Or even ordinary quality going by one vet's opinion:

 

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:33 AM, sandgrubber said:

.... There's a lot of malarkey about dog food ....

I heard that said a few years ago.  I used to go to an older vet who is retired.  He had a very old Boxer, around 18, in lovely health and condition in every way.  He said he had only ever fed it Pal canned dog food, and that people who constantly bagged it had no idea what they were talking about.  I used to regularly buy Royal Canin from him.  He said I would wake up to myself one day.

 

(I know not helping, and not exactly relevant, but thought I would mention it anyway), 

[JulesP]

4 hours ago, PossumCorner said:

Or even ordinary quality going by one vet's opinion:

 

I heard that said a few years ago.  I used to go to an older vet who is retired.  He had a very old Boxer, around 18, in lovely health and condition in every way.  He said he had only ever fed it Pal canned dog food, and that people who constantly bagged it had no idea what they were talking about.  I used to regularly buy Royal Canin from him.  He said I would wake up to myself one day.

 

(I know not helping, and not exactly relevant, but thought I would mention it anyway), 

 

Yeah I think that the pet food companies (expensive ones) are finding this all quite hilarious. Problem is we love our pets so much that we don't dare feed the Pal, just in case. 

 

My first cat only ever got Whiskars, dry and wet. She passed in her sleep at 20+. Never a day at the vet from ill health. 

 

First 2 dogs got Super Coat and Nature's Gift. Mind you those were fancy foods back then  Nature's Gift wasn't available from supermarkets and not sure about Super Coat, I'm thinking that wasn't either. Then I decided to do BARF and really it all went down hill from there  

 

[Danois]

You don’t need to be a scientist to appreciate a diet of Pal is not good long term. Dogs may live a long life for many reasons other than diet. But you’re not giving them the best fuel for their bodies and mind. 

 

It’s like saying “I ate fast food every day of my life”. 

 

Would you eat that type of food every day or do you recognise that quality nutrition plays an important part on your overall wellbeing (physical and mental)?

[PossumCorner]

3 hours ago, Danois said:

You don’t need to be a scientist to appreciate a diet of Pal is not good long term.  ....

I don't feed it and haven't read the analysis, but what I passed on in that post was from a veterinary scientist.

 

5 hours ago, JulesP said:

 

....  Then I decided to do BARF and really it all went down hill from there  

 

Is it any different with horses - no!  When we had fit ponies on simple feed back in the day there weren't as many problems as we have now.  Pellets and pre-mixes were unheard of, there was hay, chaff and basic additives, oats/bran/pollard/boiled linseed.  Now 'balanced' vitamin mineral additive pre-mixes rule, cool this/energy that/performance something else.  And a litany of problems comes with them.

 

Not saying everything was rosy with feeding dogs and horses back in the day either, but I still go with Sandgrubber's sentence. 

 

Sandgrubber also mentioned above that not feeding fibre is not natural.  I've just started my poultry on a hammer-milled mix direct from a farm.  The mix is four grains pulverised, with lucerne and oaten hay pulverised through it.  And a poultry breeder 'expert' told me today I was mad, that it was "too much fibre".  So it's not just dog feeding theories that floor me sometimes.   

[JulesP]

11 hours ago, Danois said:

You don’t need to be a scientist to appreciate a diet of Pal is not good long term. Dogs may live a long life for many reasons other than diet. But you’re not giving them the best fuel for their bodies and mind. 

 

It’s like saying “I ate fast food every day of my life”. 

 

Would you eat that type of food every day or do you recognise that quality nutrition plays an important part on your overall wellbeing (physical and mental)?

 

I did have a Dr tell me to eat fast food   Really all dry & tinned/rolls food is 'fast food'. 

 

Anyway I think you are missing the point a bit.  Which is the level of angst we go through now to feed our pets. 

 

(disclaimer: I have never fed Pal, more for me because I think it stinks!) 

[Danois]

But that level of angst applies to so many aspects of our life - especially our own diets!

 

We have so much more access to information now - as well as choice in the marketplace as it’s easier to import or the barriers to entry to the market as not as high so more players entering the industry. You see that with how Black Hawk or Ivory Coat started. And science is much more advanced. 

 

I just see it as symptomatic of our evolving society. 

[sandgrubber]

7 hours ago, Danois said:

But that level of angst applies to so many aspects of our life - especially our own diets!

 

We have so much more access to information now - as well as choice in the marketplace as it’s easier to import or the barriers to entry to the market as not as high so more players entering the industry. You see that with how Black Hawk or Ivory Coat started. And science is much more advanced. 

 

I just see it as symptomatic of our evolving society. 

And so much misinformation based on opinion, without good evidence.  This is especially true in pet foods and remedies.  So many gimmicks to justify raising the price by a few bucks a bag.

[JulesP]

3 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

And so much misinformation based on opinion, without good evidence.  This is especially true in pet foods and remedies.  So many gimmicks to justify raising the price by a few bucks a bag.

 

Not to mention my pet peeve of people taking for gospel what is written on pet food review sites.  

[PossumCorner]

Which are sideways financed by the manufacturers (not to mention their pet-vets and in-house 'nutritionists'). 

 

Yes Pal does smell crook - but then so does green tripe and some barf food.  (So do Rheneas' farts this morning, which means he's escaped supervision and eaten goose poo, bugger!

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

On 09/01/2018 at 7:59 AM, JulesP said:

I have never fed Pal, more for me because I think it stinks!) 

Oh god yeah. When we first got Scrappi we were a bit oblivious and fed him Pedigree tinned puppy food. Geez that was the devil’s work that smell. 

On a side note, I wonder if feeding him a better puppy diet would’ve helped his BAD East-West “ballerina” front feet. It causes him no pain, vet says they’re miraculously fine, but will get arthritis. I know a good diet fixes rickets and bowed puppy legs, so I wonder if we could’ve helped this too!