Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) I recently received a puppy who I thought was from a VERY reputable breeder. I have discovered they are not, and they do not care about the puppies they are selling, with health problems. This one in particular was sent leaking urine. The breeder claimed it was muscular, but in fact, upon ultrasound, she has a double ectopic ureter, and abnormally small kidneys with scar tissue. She is 7 months old. With a price tag of $10000, I figured since I found them on this site, and they don't seem to care perhaps someone here can direct me to the proper avenues that will care. I have repeatedly messaged them, they do not respond. This is outrageous. Edited November 19, 2017 by Undershot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) You probably need to talk to your local fair trading people, it is a purchase after all. Your locations shows as 'overseas' so can't suggest who that is. To get your money back you may need to go to a small claims tribunal or similar. Maybe the purchase price is too high for small claims, I would try a solicitor for legal advice at that price. whether you can get financial redress might depend on what your purchase contract says, and if this problem should have been apparent to the seller. But I am not a lawyer. You can complain to the state kennel control the breeder belongs to but they have no power to get you redress. If it is a pattern of behaviour by the seller or in the breed generally they might investigate or already be investigating, but they can't get you any money. Edited November 19, 2017 by Diva 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 I did report to Consumer Affairs. They didn't help. I'm looking for legal counsel now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Contact your state's KCC .. and give them the breeder's number/name, as suggested. yes, contact Consumer affairs or similar to discuss things . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 With a price tag of $10,000.00 I cannot believe that you did not have a pre-purchase contract in place stating exactly what was the agreed purpose of the puppy and the steps agreed to by both parties if the puppy was found unfit for purpose within a certain time. The owner of this site ensures that all breeders here are bona fide finanical members of the ANKC affiliated body in their state or country, but nevertheless due diligence is still required by puppy purchasers. Agree with checking the fair trading laws in your area - in some areas, $10,000 may be greater than the maximum allowed in Small Claims Court, check that option as well. And if you think that the breeder misled you purposefully or by neglect, do report them to the ANKC affiliate to which they belong. Diva is correct, that action of reporting may not bring you financial redress, but it may prevent the breeder doing that to someone else. We do not like to hear that ANKC affiliated breeders have done the wrong thing and we will always urge that the ANKC affiliate be approached by the party that feels themselves wronged, so that affiliate has a chance to investigate their member and either clear them of wrongdoing or issue reprisals of some sort. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, RuralPug said: With a price tag of $10,000.00 I cannot believe that you did not have a pre-purchase contract in place stating exactly what was the agreed purpose of the puppy and the steps agreed to by both parties if the puppy was found unfit for purpose within a certain time. yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Believe me, I tried to get a contract. This wasn't my first time dealing with this breeder. My first dog from them was a wonderful healthy dog. Can someone let me know which ankc to contact, as they are located in Canberra. Would that be NSW, or ACT? As I have seen on NSW ankc they are not a member with them. I did email a president of the breed club for ankc, however I have not heard back. Shall I add that this dog was sold under full breeding rights, and show quality? I KNOW the breeder misled me, I'm furious. This is a breeder that is VERY active in the show circuit, and they even have their own kennel club. They have been approached to issue a reprisal, and have declined. They knowingly and intentionally sold me 2 dogs, that are sick. I'm happy to name them, however I am still trying to take the proper avenues. I have notified this website because they advertise them here. Edited November 19, 2017 by Undershot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Canberra is Dogs ACT if you name them do so by private message, if you post a name here the thread will most likely be deleted. I don't understand the comment about having their own kennel club. I assume you mean they are part of the executive of a club. The kennel control affiliated clubs are associations, usually incorporated. Edited November 19, 2017 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I copied this for you ... I think legal advice is a good idea . please do NOT name them on here ..the owner of the forum is the one who cops reprisals Quote Limitation of Liability and DisclaimerThe information contained on this website is provided by Dogz Online Pty Ltd in good faith. Most of the information displayed is provided by members and visitors of the site. Therefore Dogz Online Pty Ltd does not make any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and/or that the products or services will meet your requirements. Users should use their own discretion and judgement when viewing any information or acting upon any advertisement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 @diva, yes, ok I guess.... they host shows. And, thank you. I will email dogs act. I know that I don't want to see ANYONE else in my position, however I know there have to be others. I have searched and googled and can't find many avenues to call out unethical breeders.... are there any in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) The state bodies have disciplinary processes and will suspend members if they have proven complaints of breaches of regulations, but proving can be difficult. Generally they stay out of disputes between buyers and sellers, as they are considered civil legal matters. However, if there is an accumulation of evidence of actions bringing the 'fancy' into disrepute I would be disappointed if there was no action, especially around health issues. Your breeder, if they live in the ACT, will also have a government breeder license, I don't know what avenues that might open. Is the breed known for kidney issues? If so more reason the breeder should have checked before sale. Any dog can get anything, but breeders are most alert to the common breed risks and rightly so. Nature still throws curve balls and bad things happen to good breeders, but it is how they respond that matters. Note that the Canberra dog scene is a small place. Everyone knows everyone pretty much, especially if they run shows. I would bet your breeder will know about this thread before long. Not necessarily a bad thing, if they are not answering your emails. Edited November 19, 2017 by Diva 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 I'm not aware of this breed having kidney issues, HOWEVER, she knew of the urinary incontinence, and I advised her to have the puppy tested extensively. She said 'it is muscular her mother had it she will outgrow it', well shame on her. I have extensive proof, thousands in vet bills and communication. I have expended every avenue I can think of to try to get through to this breeder. I truly hope their reputation supersedes the internet. I know mine does, 30 years in dogs, I would never do anything to risk mine. I wish I could say the same for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 For the little it is worth, I am very sorry this happened to you. Most ANKC breeders take pride in the dogs they export. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) Thank you. I'm flabbergasted frankly, because I feel this breeder used to take pride and care.that was with my first one years ago. .... And to put the burden of these puppies on me, well I don't know what to say. Or do. That's why I am here. I don't know what's happened, with them, or their dogs. All I know is I am extended beyond financial, and borderline emotional. I am $40000 in. And no end in sight, unless I just euthanize them both. Heart breaking..... Edited November 19, 2017 by Undershot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) $10,000 for a 7 month old? I’m clearly I’m the wrong breed. That is a ridiculous amount of money. If the breeder is running ANKC shows then she is doing so on behalf of a club. I would contact the state governing body in the first instance. The breeder may face disciplinary but ANKC has no jurisdiction over getting your expenses refunded so the only way to approach that is your state’s equivalent of VCAT. Did you purchase the dog to show and/or breed? Are you a member of your state governing body? That may change whether you are required to pay a complaint fee to Dogs ACT. I would also expect that you immediately communicated the medical issues to the breeder and gave her an opportunity to take the dog back for a refund. You mention one puppy with medical issue and later “sick puppies”. So I’m assuming you have two puppies with medical issues. I don’t need clarification. But I would suggest you be very clear about the timeline in your complaint as it will only complicate issues if it’s disjointed and incomplete. Edited November 19, 2017 by The Spotted Devil 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Spotted Devil said: $10,000 for a 7 month old? I’m clearly I’m the wrong breed. That is a ridiculous amount of money. If the breeder is running ANKC shows then she is doing so on behalf of a club. I would contact the state governing body in the first instance. The breeder may face disciplinary but ANKC has no jurisdiction over getting your expenses refunded so the only way to approach that is your state’s equivalent of VCAT. Did you purchase the dog to show and/or breed? Are you a member of your state governing body? That may change whether you are required to pay a complaint fee to Dogs ACT. I would also expect that you immediately communicated the medical issues to the breeder and gave her an opportunity to take the dog back for a refund. You mention one puppy with medical issue and later “sick puppies”. So I’m assuming you have two puppies with medical issues. I don’t need clarification. But I would suggest you be very clear about the timeline in your complaint as it will only complicate issues if it’s disjointed and incomplete. Yes, I purchased 2 with the intention to show and breed, and to start a line. I do not live in Australia. I am willing to contact and pursue ANY avenue to be a voice for these dogs. I am doing my best to pursue this internationally, and I am more than willing to fly back. I cannot send these dogs back, I wish I could. I IMMEDIATELY informed the breeder. They do not respond to me any longer. Edited November 19, 2017 by Undershot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Undershot said: I am doing my best to pursue this internationally, and I am more than willing to fly back. I cannot send these dogs back, I wish I could. I IMMEDIATELY informed the breeder. They do not respond to me any longer. So $10,000 includes export fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 You brought one knowing it was/had been incontinent, asked for tests to be done but then didn't ask for the results or copies of results? What's wrong with the other pup/dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undershot Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 $10000 did NOT include export costs. That was another $1800. I asked her to do the tests. She did not. Said it was muscular and she would outgrow it, which can happen. The other dog has had FUO (fever of unknown Origen) with blood tests showing inflammation and/or bacterial. He was coughing before I brought him back. I thought it was a chill. Hindsight is 20/20 I should have left him there. He still has the cough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) jeepers. Quote she knew of the urinary incontinence, and I advised her to have the puppy tested extensively. She said 'it is muscular her mother had it she will outgrow it', ... I am sorry you didn't notice the red flags flying all round this info/statement if accurate . and , forgive me if i seem naive ..however , flying /importing a dog with an undiagnosed cough seems unwise ... Quote He was coughing before I brought him back. I thought it was a chill. Hindsight is 20/20 I should have left him there. He still has the cough. I wish you some sort of resolution ...and an eventual start to a breeding program . Edited November 19, 2017 by persephone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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