Advice requested dog with grade 4 heart murmur

[CHA]

Swf 13yo diagnosed with grade 4 heart murmur, vet says she needs half her teeth removed. She is extremely skinny, all ribs and backbone showing, extremely narrow at waist when viewed from above. Someone made the comment that it may be in the dogs best interest to not operate on her teeth due to the risk. What are your thoughts? She is getting good quality soft food now but can't say how well or otherwise she was fed prior to this week. Vet didn't mention anything about her lack of weight. She has just come into our care. Bloods show slight kidney disease?

[Daisys Mum]

I'm not an expert but if she was my dog I wouldn't put her through it ...  I would let her live out the time she has left, too risky imo.

[CHA]

Thanks Marg, that's what I'm wondering. She's in a good home now and getting lots of quality love and attention, her last days will be golden

[Mjosa]

I agree with Marg, leave her be bless her, too bigger risk.

[Loving my Oldies]

If she is skin and bone, try making bone broth (google easy recipe) and mix with nutrigel.  My SWF (Tamar nearly 14) is very skinny as well, but not as bad as your little girl sounds.  She isn’t very interested in food - just seems to be something necessary to take from time to time.   However, she seems to really like the mixture and nutrigel is calorie loaded.   

 

The difficulty when older and health compromised dogs need dental care is weighing up the risks and benefits.  Dogs can get a second lease on life from having rotting damaged teeth removed.  So much nastiness is going into their bodies from bad teeth and/or infected gums.  

 

How confident are you with your vet?  Do you know him/her well?  Maybe get a second opinion?  Two of my elderlies (around 16 both of them) needed dentals not so long ago and I was very very nervous as one of them has a heart murmur and is on daily meds.  However, they sailed through. 

 

I’d be inclined to put some weight on your girl and then consider it again.   

 

Good luck.    

[Jumabaar]

Quality of life!!

Teeth that need to be taken out are teeth that are causing pain. I do not believe it is ethical to allow dogs of any age to live with potential tooth root abscess and bone infection. 

 

I have successfully anaesthetised a 22yr old Westie Mix for a dental where we extracted 6 teeth. The dog was still kicking along beautifully 6mths later when I left the practice. 

 

I would discuss getting bloods run to see if there is a reason for the weight issue and make a decision based on the results rather than making the decision based on age. She could potentially live another 9 years and she won't be getting younger. Age itself is not a disease. 

[Boronia]

yep, get the dental, your dog will feel much better and will probably put on weight afterwards.

Penny had a dental at 16 and Mac had his canine tooth removed at 15, they were both put on a drip after and recovered ok.

The swf must be feeling really crappy with her sore teeth and despite her having a heart murmur she should cope with the operation; your vet knows about the heart murmur and anesthetics are pretty good so if your vet recommends the op it means that she/he is confident.

[Papillon Kisses]

Our Papillon had dental surgery with a high grade heart murmur at 15 or 16. What we did was take him to a specialist hospital where he had a veterinary dentist, a specialist anaesthesist and all the extra care and monitoring he needed. It was a tricky surgery and we almost lost him, but we didn't and he had a further 2-3 years with a pain-free mouth and passed away at 18. So my suggestion is to take your little girl to a specialist hospital if you can. Dental disease is very painful and damages organs too including the heart and kidneys.

 

ETA: An an awake, visual exam also only shows you the teeth that are obviously bad. My 11-13y/o Chi x with Addison's Disease (which also requires special care) looked like he only needed two removed, but once they put him under and took dental X-rays they found he needed 9 out including 3 canines. They also found a bony defect in the socket of one of the upper canines (a hole between his nose and oral cavity). All due to severe periodontal disease. Our now former vet said he wasn't in any pain because he could eat and would cooperate with having most of his mouth touched. In truth he was in a lot of pain, but is a stoic little fellow who has done a lot of animal husbandry training! And dogs will still eat when in agony as to do otherwise means certain death.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[jemappelle]

My 12.5 year old Cav has a grade 4 heart murmur and has just had a dental.  She bounced back without any problems.  And she is much brighter in herself.

[Papillon Kisses]

19 minutes ago, jemappelle said:

My 12.5 year old Cav has a grade 4 heart murmur and has just had a dental.  She bounced back without any problems.  And she is much brighter in herself.

Wonderful news!!! A lot of people say their dogs become like puppies again! I'm hoping my dog's anxiety will improve. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[_PL_]

If you trust your vet go for a dental. As per reasons above. 

We've had delicate senior dogs done and not lost one yet, they recover well with TLC and feel so much better for it. 

 

[Akay]

I went through the same issue some time ago.  I had a dog with a grade 4/5 heart murmur and I went through with the dental and it turned out fine.  If you do go ahead with the dental make sure the vet is very experienced in anaesthetising older dogs and is very careful.   There are obvious risks. 

 

It depends how long you think the dog has left - if it's a slow progressing heart murmur the dog could have another 2-3 years left and would benefit from having their teeth done.  Also be aware that the bacteria from bad teeth can make heart conditions worse.   

 

It's a tough choice and I thought about it intensely for a while.  In the end I considered what was better for the dog and it was to remove the teeth as I wouldn't think having rotting teeth would be very pleasant.