Raw for small breed puppy

[Hunbun]

I just brought home our new puppy a few days ago and would like to transition her to raw. She currently eats the kibble I got from the breeder, I forgot the name, but

it's a breeders brand he buys bulk for all his dogs. I've been reading about raw, but most of the info seems to be more for bigger dogs.  She's currently about 1.7kg at 8 weeks

and a spitz mix, should grow to about 5-6kg. Ideally I'd like to make my own patties in bulk and freeze them to make life easier. Are there any websites or recipes you would recommend to get me started, I'm sure eventually I will have my own tried and tested recipe, but for now I just want some of the thinking done for me iykwim :D

And would love opinions about treats to use, as there is obviously a lot of learning happening here every day.

 

 

And before someone gets started about the mix breed etc, yes I am aware about dodgy backyard breeders and dogs etc, but I am very happy with where the dog came from and the care both the puppies and mum got. This "breeder" was more helpful than some of the purebred dog breeders I have spoken to.    

[Scottsmum]

Favourite page to start at: https://www.balanced-canine.com/raw-feeding

 

Including the amazing calculator (just play with the weight as you need to)  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FPAPQp-GKCPQS6Y6hgmfAAxDkqPAdwHbYX_aR_FTbjQ/edit#gid=1680804649

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

*Appologies in advance for the brain-dump, but here's a bunch of info that I found helpful.  

 

 

If I were you, I would consider feeding mostly store bought BARF patties while she's a growing pup. 

A) Its easy,

B) Its reasonably affordable as she's small, and

C) You know it's definitely balanced so there aren't any risks of nutritional deficiencies (which in turn cause growth issues) 

 

Someone on here will be able to give you some help with the nutritional requirements for a pup and what to look for in terms of % of protein, fat, calcium, phosphorus etc.

 

Then you can also feed a bone meal once or a few times a week. (I'd guess maybe chicken wings at her size, maybe you could be ok with necks (but be careful she chews them thoroughly)) 

 

I don't have puppies, but I feed my dogs a mix of home prepared "Prey Model" (sort of) Raw and Big Dog BARF patties. 

I buy meat from woolies, but have recently found a local supplier which makes things a bit cheaper. 

Remember to portion it to be 80:10:10 of Meat:bone:organ, but as your pup is so small it's easier to balance over a week rather than a meal. 

 

These are some goodies we have in our Woolworths:

MEAT:

- Chicken Giblets or hearts for $1.99 / 500g tub.

- Lamb heart,

- Lamb "offcuts" which I cut the meat off the bones. That's pretty cheap. 

- Beef heart

- Pork "offcuts" (same deal as lamb) 

BONES:

- Chicken necks; $1.99/500g tub. 

- Turkey necks 

- Chicken frames, wings, quarters, drumsticks etc; $3/kg

ORGAN:

- Lamb kidney or liver

- Chicken liver $1.99/500g (so $4/kg) 

 

 

Some websites:

 

- Perfectly Rawesome

- Instincto Raw (a QLD raw supplier)

- Vets All Natural

- Big Dog Patties

- A raw feeding calculator: http://www.raw4dogs.com/calculate.htm

- Phosphorus & Calcium ratios http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/bone-food-values-for-raw-feeding-dogs/

 

- Small breed (papillon) raw feeding

http://www.roadsend-papillons-phalenes.com/2013/09/menu-items-for-raw-meat-diet-raw-meaty.html?m=1. 

 

http://www.roadsend-papillons-phalenes.com/2013/07/papillons-on-raw-meat-and-bone-diet.html?m=1

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/04/15/amp/raw-food-diet-part-3.aspx

 

Mojo & Friends on YouTube (some really great videos)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=wJZLDep5Vik

[Hunbun]

Wow, thank you both so much! Dump away Scrappy, thats super helpful! I have plenty of reading to do now haha

 

I did think that I might just do a pre-made barf for now, have been checking out some options. I will email the ones that look good, but are there any you would recommend for puppies? Instincto seems very good. 

Will try chicken wings, she's a little land shark at the moment so will probably loooove it ;)

 

I have also seen a lot of people using high quality dry food for training, is that a good idea? I'm doing a few short training sessions a day and don't want to feed too much. What do raw feeding people use as treats?

 

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

Just make sure also you take care when switching the food and don't cause any tummy upsets.   One type of meat at a time at first I think. 

 

I personally just feed any treats that aren't full of rubbish (Eg no smackos/rawhide/dentasticks etc.) treats are treats, so since my dogs don't have any real allergies I give them whatever is tasty and within reason (eg tiny bits of roast/boiled chicken, kibble, little pieces of SavourLife treats, cheese if really high value is needed.) 

I feed a high quality kibble for breakfast and my dogs do really well on half raw half dry. I feel like a shop bought food just ensures the diet is reasonably balanced and meeting all nutritional requirements. 

Some raw feeders have a dehydrator and dry out little bits of meat to use as treats, or use dog safe fruits and veg.  

I'm not exactly an expert though, but there are some on here. Hopefully they'll pop in. 

 

[Hunbun]

Thank you!  Yes definitely will take things slow and monitor her tummy. 

I actually like the half and half idea too, that might be a good starting point too and from what I have been reading there are some really decent kibble options. 

I think for now I will keep it simple and find a premade barf and a good puppy dry food. And just keep learning and tweaking it as we go  

 

.

 

 

 

[Rebanne]

Check with your breeder you aren't voiding any health guarantees by changing what you are feeding. I'm not so fussy about food (depending) but give any pup bred by me a heartworm shot and all guarantees are null and void

[sandgrubber]

I've been warned by a vet (who isn't anti bones in general) to avoid chicken until 4 months of age.  A healthy, mature dog's immune system can handle Salmonella but it can kill a baby pup.  Many people have fed raw chicken to pups, including me, and had no problems.  But you should know there's a risk, and it's a good idea to be very fussy about the quality of any raw meat you feed a pup... especially chicken.  I'd say this is one more reason to use a ready made BARF product.

[Hunbun]

Thanks for the tips everyone  

 

[Hunbun]

So at this stage I have ordered her a sample bag of Frontier Pets and  picking up some raw patties today. My local shop has the Big Dog brand 

and also Complete Pet Food Company patties, has anyone heard of these or used them?  http://www.completepet.com.au/pet/raw-food/about-our-raw-food/what-is-in-the-complete-meal-for-dogs Ingredients look simple and good and it's made locally. 

 

[Freetoroam]

2 hours ago, Hunbun said:

So at this stage I have ordered her a sample bag of Frontier Pets and  picking up some raw patties today. My local shop has the Big Dog brand 

and also Complete Pet Food Company patties, has anyone heard of these or used them?  http://www.completepet.com.au/pet/raw-food/about-our-raw-food/what-is-in-the-complete-meal-for-dogs Ingredients look simple and good and it's made locally. 

 

I haven't heard of these brands Hunbun. All I can recommend is do your research :.  However I do like to make my own raw food. This way I am aware of what goes into it. Good luck with your new journey and enjoy that little one of yours 

I have Poms 

[Hunbun]

Thank you, I'm making sure I get as many puppy kisses as I can haha! 

I will be making my own raw eventually, just want to ease myself into it.  I ended up getting the leading raw puppy barf patties, we'll see how that goes.

 

Hopefully the photo works, thats her on the first day home

[JenL]

Beautiful photo Hunbun.  I have a 5 yr old Tibetan Spaniel, have had her since last November and. Have now transferred her over to raw. I make up raw myself plus give Big Dog Baaf and I have just started with the Frontier pets. I really like the frontier pets ethics and made in Australia from all ethical Australian producers. It's more expensive than other food but this is raw freeze dried so handy when needed.

[Loving my Oldies]

Beautiful little pup, Hunbun (is that her name or nickname ? )

 

And well done, everyone for the super advice given to a newbie.  Very encouraging 

[Hunbun]

I'm really looking forward to trying Frontier, it sounds great, hopefully she likes it  And yes, everyone's responses have been very helpful, lots

of good info!

 

Dame Danny - Hunbun is just a username I picked when I first joined, it's a reference to Pulp Fiction (movie) hahah 

Puppy is still nameless, we're struggling to choose just one perfect name, terrrible I know!

[karen15]

before the raw and barf diets came into existence, I always fed, and still do, a mix of kibble, raw meat and bones. Kibble is an easy way to get a balanced diet for pups (IMO), but dogs evolved to eat meat so I've always fed human quality mince (uncooked) plus meaty bones. I freeze mince so it is eaten in max 3 days. First day, it's still partly frozen. Every morning it's warmed a little in the microwave. Westie has a sensitive tum where fat is concerned, so they only get turkey and chicken mince. A favourite is cooked BBQ chook. That's the one thing that gets the westie vocal about food

[sandgrubber]

6 hours ago, karen15 said:

Kibble is an easy way to get a balanced diet for pups (IMO), but dogs evolved to eat meat so I've always fed human quality mince (uncooked) plus meaty bones.

Dogs evolved to eat human refuse.  This probably included bones and less desirable parts of an animal...also spoiled meat.  But it's pretty clear, from the genetic differences between dogs and wolves, that dogs evolved to eat starches as well as meat.  Most dogs love bones, and I'm not saying don't feed them.  But scientific evidence doesn't support BARF diet assertions, and no one should be feel inferior for feeding kibble.

[sandgrubber]

Just now, sandgrubber said:

Dogs evolved to eat human refuse.  This probably included bones and less desirable parts of an animal...also spoiled meat.  But it's pretty clear, from the genetic differences between dogs and wolves, that dogs evolved to eat starches as well as meat.  Most dogs love bones, and I'm not saying don't feed them.  But scientific evidence doesn't support BARF diet assertions, and no one should be feel inferior or be defensive about feeding kibble.

 

[Freetoroam]

On 9/1/2017 at 11:11 AM, Hunbun said:

 

 

Thank you, I'm making sure I get as many puppy kisses as I can haha! 

I will be making my own raw eventually, just want to ease myself into it.  I ended up getting the leading raw puppy barf patties, we'll see how that goes.

 

Hopefully the photo works, thats her on the first day home

So very cute. Got to luve puppy kisses and there is nothing better than puppy breath