ESS puppy pulling on lead - help

[Two Best Dogs!]

Yeah you wouldn't want formal heeling on all your walks, just little check ins and glances. My neck aches in sympathy if whole walk! My preferences is to walk by my side but if they're not yanking you about and straining you both who cares if it's your left side or right side or out front or behind? And careful not to overwalk, I did that a couple of times not used to puppy stamina. Go go go then sleep

 

Wont lie, my fave way to walk them is to drive to a field and let the dogs loose! Sometimes with a race car to chase and bark at. What fun! But they have been trained to come when called (knock on wood)

 

i second a reqtest for photos!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Thistle the dog

[Drummergirl]

Thanks everyone for the advice; it's really interesting so hear different ideas and opinions.  He's really improved over this week (or perhaps it's me who has improved  ).  Our short lead walks are much better and my shoulder is intact once we get to the park , then he has the fun of being off lead. 

 

I don't have any photos on this pc at the moment, have to get them off my phone soon.

[corvus]

On 10/08/2017 at 10:54 AM, The Spotted Devil said:

At the end of the day my ESS really don't love going for walks.

Really? Why not? Thinking of my podengo, who I guess is another flushing breed. She is so little that pulling on leash can sometimes be overlooked, but she has been trained to walk on a loose leash anyway. Sometimes (okay, frequently) she gets carried away following a scent or exploring and she starts pulling. We stop and wait until she remembers her leash manners and sits, which does not usually take long. She LOVES walks. She likes to be off leash best, and trail runs are her absolute favourite, but she will take any outing in any form. 

[The Spotted Devil]

Because running full tilt is what they do. Most people don't get it until they see them in action. It's like a herding breed that flanks or gives eye. Yes you can train them not to do it but when I weigh up my training priorities (recalls, agility, retrieving, working in the field) walking nicely on leash is WAY down my list. Maybe it's as much that I don't like on leash walks with multiple Springers  

Edited August 13, 2017 by The Spotted Devil

[Scrappi&Monty]

1 hour ago, corvus said:

Really? Why not? Thinking of my podengo, who I guess is another flushing breed. She is so little that pulling on leash can sometimes be overlooked, but she has been trained to walk on a loose leash anyway. Sometimes (okay, frequently) she gets carried away following a scent or exploring and she starts pulling. We stop and wait until she remembers her leash manners and sits, which does not usually take long. She LOVES walks. She likes to be off leash best, and trail runs are her absolute favourite, but she will take any outing in any form. 

I can't speak for Spotted Devil, but some dogs just don't really like walks. One of my dogs doesn't like walks that much. Some days he can get very overwhelmed by the whole experience.

It all depends on the day and how much he can tolerate that day. Sometimes he loves walks and has fun (bravely meeting cows, going for a run, practicing heeling & manners, sniffing, exploring etc.) Other days he is clearly overwhelmed, and some days it's all too much if he sees another dog walker he can be leash reactive to some other dogs. 

But we're working on it.  

Also some dogs just like to be let loose in a paddock and go crazy! (Rather than structured leash walks)

Edited August 13, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[The Spotted Devil]

So, this is what my dogs would rather be doing x 10000....and this is their default pattern on leash....back and forth, back and forth. As I said previously they don't have a strong walking or trotting gait as a default. Yes, there's no doubt you can teach a dog to trot but never doubt that there is an element of genetic selection. My Dalmatian trots ALL day but he tends to canter where the Springers gallop. 

 

 

[Two Best Dogs!]

Hard at work!! Look at those tails go. 

 

Im really partial to forests with areas of water as our go to exercise. 

 

 

where those cannot be found...a footie field will do

 

dogs like to run and it's the best to watch!

(even if not always practical)

Edited August 13, 2017 by Thistle the dog

[Scrappi&Monty]

They look like they're having loads of fun!!  

(And working hard!) 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[The Spotted Devil]

A classic case of work = play = work. Em did 5 hours of that on the Saturday, 3 hours on Sunday and then came into season on Monday. A day in the life of  

 

It took ME several days to recover on the other hand!!!

[corvus]

I get that some dogs don't like walks. I was just curious about what exactly they didn't like about it. Kestrel is pretty similar if she's off leash, but a lot smaller, so I guess not so fast and doesn't cover as much ground, and obviously can't pull as hard when she does get going on leash. She also settles in to our foot speed without too much trouble most of the time. I kind of think of her breed as an all-rounder, which I suppose means she is not fixated on any one sense or behavioural pattern. She tends to get very aroused about bounding around in the bush, most especially if she finds birds or some other animal. I'm not sure how long she would do it for, because we have never seen her voluntarily stop. I can run take her for a 2 hour trail run and she is begging to go on yet another trail at the end. She would certainly prefer to be off leash, far more than the hunds do. She'll take on leash without complaint as long as we are moving, though. 

[persephone]

Watching that reminded me of Hamlet ..with a Cocker mum ..he was mostly 'nose' ..and would quarter an area  really well , with absolutely no training ...

[The Spotted Devil]

@corvus and when you get them trotting along nicely it is apparently inevitable that I will relax and get distracted, their nose will suddenly take over and they hit the end of the lead with such force that we both risk being injured. I can't believe how much power Em can generate at only 16kg. Ginny is even stronger. 

[KobiD]

Great thread.

 

Lots of useful concepts and strategies. One thing to note is that whichever way you choose to do it, and whatever you expect from your animal, be consistent. 

 

I can relate to your situation. Our pup is very scent driven (including trying to eat a lot of whatever she can sniff out). I'm not a very 'exciting' person by nature either (calm natured, observant, deep monotone voice, etc) so the whole idea of me being more interesting or exciting than the environment would be a big effort for me and not something I'd want to try and maintain. I'm also looking to instil similar behaviours in my puppy..

 

As everyone else has said, starting small and working on it as training vs walking will help tremendously. Observe your puppies reaction to stimulus and work beneath their threshold. If it means you have to stop and wait 5 minutes for the puppy to look at you before you; mark/reward/take another step/see calm behaviour; then do that.. It will engage the dogs mind and they'll work out what you expect before they get what they want. 

 

Another side note that I have noticed is that in the early days I had a bit too much expectation, and too much intent to get somewhere. When things fell apart instead of taking a step back I'd get frustrated and the red mist would set in. Moral of the story, keep the distractions at a manageable level (for you and your puppy). Keep the session short, but be sure to allocate yourself a bucket load more time than you think it should take! 

[corvus]

I can appreciate the dog that just gets involved in their environment and forgets about the leash. I'm pretty sure to get Kestrel not to do that, I would have to be quite vigilant. It's in her nature to zigzag and explore and follow her nose. But, I do practise calling her in for a treat or a quick trick and release every now and then. My goal is not to be more interesting to her than the environment. I mean, if it were either of my herding breeds, yes, that is a reasonable goal. But this is a primitive flushing hound. I am never going to be more interesting to her than the environment. My goal is just to balance her responsiveness to me with her responsiveness to the environment so that when I need her attention, I can get it promptly. It's not easy with her, as she wasn't really bred for it. However, with about a year or so of hard work, she does actually actively engage us while out on walks sometimes, and that is super exciting given how hard we had to work to get it. That balance where she can go chase birds and bounce around in the bush and also come back when called and do a few tricks and learn to back up onto a log is what I am after. She doesn't need to think I'm everything, or even the best thing there is. She just needs to think I'm a good bet. The more she thinks of me as a good bet, the more leverage I have with her.

[corvus]

Incidentally, the picture of the three dogs in my avatar has her staring into the distance. No doubt, she is wondering why we are still sitting here taking photos. She is not super keen on sitting still when there is so much world to be explored, on leash or off. She does it because I pay her pretty well, but she would rather be moving.

[Dogsfevr]

I have had dogs that don't enjoy walking but preferred bikie riding & the reason being the gait they are at whilst being biked is more natural & comfortable,

You see many dogs pacing on there walks mits a tiring gait & dogs often end up sore ,Some people walk so slow the dogs hate it

[corvus]

Like, genuinely don't enjoy walking? I get prefer to be doing something else, but I've met a lot of dogs for whom walking on leash can be quite frustrating and/or anxiety inducing that still give every indication of wanting to go for a walk. The only dogs I've ever worked with that genuinely did not enjoy going for walks were dogs with chronic anxiety disorders. I have seen plenty of dogs kind of rolling their eyes because on leash walks are so tedious and slow, but if you asked them if they would choose a slow and tedious walk or no walk, I'm guessing they would choose slow and tedious. It's not just about the exercise or the nature of the activity. It's also about going somewhere with the humans. They tend to be pretty optimistic about how that is going to turn out.

[DogsAndTheMob]

On 14/08/2017 at 3:49 AM, The Spotted Devil said:

@corvus and when you get them trotting along nicely it is apparently inevitable that I will relax and get distracted, their nose will suddenly take over and they hit the end of the lead with such force that we both risk being injured. I can't believe how much power Em can generate at only 16kg. Ginny is even stronger. 

Yes! Asking my Brittany to heel early in the morning when the dew (and presumably the smell of nocturnal animals) is on the ground is like asking my Border Collie to heel alongside a paddock with sheep in it.

 

I loved watching your Springers work, TSD. I could see so many similarities to the way Honey runs in the paddock. I wonder how much of the difference is because your dogs are trained gundogs, and how much is breed difference.

Edited August 21, 2017 by DogsAndTheMob

[The Spotted Devil]

40 minutes ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

Yes! Asking my Brittany to heel early in the morning when the dew (and presumably the smell of nocturnal animals) is on the ground is like asking my Border Collie to heel alongside a paddock with sheep in it.

 

I loved watching your Springers work, TSD. I could see so many similarities to the way Honey runs in the paddock. I wonder how much of the difference is because your dogs are trained gundogs, and how much is breed difference.

Good question! All I've ever done with Em is to teach her to run straight  because, in retrieving, the straightest dog wins! That's probably the 3rd time in her nearly 7 years that I've actually WANTED her to quarter. For Ginny, that's her first time ever working game. 

[DogsAndTheMob]

24 minutes ago, The Spotted Devil said:

Good question! All I've ever done with Em is to teach her to run straight  because, in retrieving, the straightest dog wins! That's probably the 3rd time in her nearly 7 years that I've actually WANTED her to quarter. For Ginny, that's her first time ever working game. 

She certainly has brilliant instincts, in that case. She was so methodical.

 

Honey has a tendency to range more widely, which may be genetic. She's mostly American bloodlines, and American brittanies are reportedly wider ranging because they've been bred to work with hunters on horseback.