Neutered male ear tattoo

[Scrappi&Monty]

Just curious about spay/neuter tattoos... 

Our 2nd male rescue dog Monty came to us already neutered and he has a tattoo in his ear. Scrappi also was neutered when we adopted him but he doesn't have a tattoo. 

I've always been curious as to why they would bother doing it on a male dog? And if many other people's dogs have this? I mean it's reasonably obvious to see whether he's entire or not, and most people would just check to see if a dog has testicles rather than look in their ear for a tattoo...? I know female dogs are often tattooed when they get spayed which makes sense. Also thinking would they possibly tattoo if the dog was a crypt orchid or something? 

 

[mackiemad]

Pretty sure in some states it is (or was) the law for shelters (and maybe vets in general) to tattoo dogs they desexed regardless of gender.

 

[Papillon Kisses]

I don't know why they'd reverse it. If a dog has retained testicles they really need to come out vs putting the dog under a GA just for the purposes of tattooing an ear?

[Scottsmum]

Someone once told me some rescue places associated with vet schools do it so students can practice their desexing & tattooing. 

 

No idea if that's true... but her young bitch (under 4 years) was tattooed on desexing & release as a young pup

 

 

[Rappie]

 I work in a shelter practice and we tattoo any animals that we desex, or where we have proof of desexing and they are under anaesthesia for another purpose (eg dentistry). Some animals that are surrendered or strays that fulfil their hold period and are already desexed are not tattooed. 

[Scrappi&Monty]

@mackiemad Yes, I've heard it's compulsory in some states (QLD?) but it isn't in NSW I don't think... Though Scrappi was from SAFE Carnarvon (WA) and Monty was from a NSW RSPCA shelter. Maybe it's just RSPCA protocol.

 

@Papillon Kisses What do you mean? I'm a bit confused what you meant.  

The desexing surgeries I've watched, they didn't tattoo the boys but they tattooed the girls while they were being spayed (& still under GA. They use a little sharp "stamp" thing to sort of poke holes and then put ink in it...  looked gross but apparently they don't care when they wake up. 

 

@Scottsmum

That makes sense. 

I know 6th (last) year vet students have to do a certain amount of time working in the uni spay/neuter clinic. (Also some uni's they get to do a c-section on a cow! ) 

[Simply Grand]

Both my boy dogs and all cats (male and female) I've had desexed have ear tattoos, going back decades. This is in the ACT, and also working at RSPCA ACT we always looked for tattoos so I assume it's either required or standard practice there. I am yet to have a female dog desexed, and I can't remember if the male guinea pig we had desexed got one lol!

 

I think it's a good thing even in males due to both crypt orchid situations and the possibility of testes potentially being tricky to feel if a dog is stressed (not to mention the number of found pet posts where people aren't sure if the animal is male or female, let alone desexed), or worse, in heavily matted animals where you can't even feel what's going on

 

Trouble is the tattoos fade pretty quickly, I can barely see them on my 6 and 8 year old boys.

[Maddy]

12 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

@mackiemad Yes, I've heard it's compulsory in some states (QLD?) but it isn't in NSW I don't think... Though Scrappi was from SAFE Carnarvon (WA) and Monty was from a NSW RSPCA shelter. Maybe it's just RSPCA protocol.

 

@Papillon Kisses What do you mean? I'm a bit confused what you meant.  

The desexing surgeries I've watched, they didn't tattoo the boys but they tattooed the girls while they were being spayed (& still under GA. They use a little sharp "stamp" thing to sort of poke holes and then put ink in it...  looked gross but apparently they don't care when they wake up. 

 

@Scottsmum

That makes sense. 

I know 6th (last) year vet students have to do a certain amount of time working in the uni spay/neuter clinic. (Also some uni's they get to do a c-section on a cow! ) 

I can't imagine they they don't feel a whole lot of hurt from that when they wake up.

The pin clamp is the same sort as is used for doing greyhounds ears and many of the greyhounds I've rescued have been very wary of people touching their ears. My old guy used to GSoD just from soft touches. My vet could find nothing wrong at all, it was just fear of being hurt there again.

I've done a few desexing tatts on anaesthetised dogs and even though I knew they were asleep and not feeling the pain, it was still stomach-turning. That crunching sound.. 

 

Personally, when I'm having greys desexed, I request no tattoo. Firstly, to save them the additional discomfort. Second, because they are chipped while under and chip records will contain information about their reproductive status and thirdly, because not all vets/nurses are mindful of existing ear brands and will go right over the top of them. 

Down here, greyhounds almost never end up in pounds though and because all greyhound rescues down here desex, if you take in any surrendered pet greyhound from another group, you'll already know that it doesn't need desexing.

If I was rescuing the dime-a-dozen staffy mixes down here, yeah, I'd probably consider the desexing tatts.

[Rebanne]

If a male has retained both testicles then they look just like a neutered dog. So just because there are none to be seen does not mean the dog doesn't have them. I know for a fact someone bought a "neutered" dog that actually had 2 retained testicles and had to be desexed.

[Panto]

1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

If a male has retained both testicles then they look just like a neutered dog. So just because there are none to be seen does not mean the dog doesn't have them. I know for a fact someone bought a "neutered" dog that actually had 2 retained testicles and had to be desexed.

Likewise, it's possible to have prosthetic testicles put in for appearances...  

[Scrappi&Monty]

1 hour ago, Panto said:

Likewise, it's possible to have prosthetic testicles put in for appearances...  

Imagine the vets if they accidentally went in to neuter what they thought was an "entire" dog and finding out they were prosthetic. 

(Although they probably look a bit different & have a scar ??) 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[Scrappi&Monty]

@Maddy I know, I feel like it should hurt... I don't think I'd ask to get it done if I had a dog that needed to be desexed, but if it was standard procedure I wouldn't mind that much. 

Yes, the crunching sound is absolutely disgusting & made me squirm haha. 

[Scottsmum]

21 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

@Maddy I know, I feel like it should hurt... I don't think I'd ask to get it done if I had a dog that needed to be desexed, but if it was standard procedure I wouldn't mind that much. 

Yes, the crunching sound is absolutely disgusting & made me squirm haha. 

Our previous family vet threw her tat gun away when she started microchipping. She hated it!

[Maddy]

6 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

@Maddy I know, I feel like it should hurt... I don't think I'd ask to get it done if I had a dog that needed to be desexed, but if it was standard procedure I wouldn't mind that much. 

Yes, the crunching sound is absolutely disgusting & made me squirm haha. 

I know of a few vets who will don't give owners a say in it and that, I think, isn't right. Tattoos aren't guaranteed to last and owners should be made aware of that and given a choice. Ear tipping is another method of identifying desexed animals but that has its own drawbacks- more painful and could be mistaken as just an old injury- and besides microchips (which can also malfunction), there's just is no permanent and definite way to mark desexed animals. It seems like it should be an easy problem to fix but the more you think about it, the more factors you have to consider (size of animal, coat length, skin colour, etc.). Ideally, you'd want something permanent, something that doesn't mar the animal's appearance (which matters a lot for some people) and something that could be detected with a fairly basic tool. Also, maybe somewhere easier to get a good look at. With cats and their upright ears, it's not too bad but a freaked out dog with floppy ears who doesn't want his head touched by complete strangers, let alone his ears turned inside-out and inspected.. not easy.

Maybe.. (off the top of my head), a small bead of plastic or glass, coating fluorescent or phosphorescent material, implanted somewhere with thin skin. Bead glows under UV light and emits glow through skin. Dog (or cat) can be checked without any touching involved. I dunno. It's 2017 and given the technology we have, someone should have figured something better out.

[Dogsfevr]

Ear tattoos aren't just for desexing either,breeds like GSD.Dobes ear tattoo using the there ID and number .

So easy to see where the dog has come from .

Our import was ear tattooed and chipped 

Our vet asks us if we want it done and we say no to the dogs that never leave here but had others done and never had any ear issues 

[Simply Grand]

Do the ID type ear tattoos on Greys, GSDs, Dobes etc last (stay visible) longer than the desexing ones? 

 

I had assumed that the desexing tattoos were not actually going that deep into the skin because they fade so much quicker than actual tattoos on humans and just curious if the ID tattoos are a more intensive process in order to last longer or not? 

 

Also, I obviously don't know who does and does not have tattoos themselves but I have a couple of small ones and while they were painful to get there wasn't pain afterwards, just some mild itchiness as they scabbed over so I don't know that animals would suffer much if any pain/discomfort with it being done under anaesthetic. Obviously if it was done without anaesthesia I would expect them to be very distressed about it

[Scrappi&Monty]

 

1 hour ago, Simply Grand said:

Obviously if it was done without anaesthesia I would expect them to be very distressed about it

Without a GA it would be absolute cruelty!!  Ughh makes me feel gross/freaked just thinking about it.  

The few dogs I've seen getting desexed, when they wake up they are obviously a bit confused, distressed and groggy. Once they woke up properly some of them tried to lick stitches or pull of cones/bandages but I didn't see any of them fussing about their ears. But they all went home pretty soon after recovery. 

[Scottsmum]

2 hours ago, Simply Grand said:

Do the ID type ear tattoos on Greys, GSDs, Dobes etc last (stay visible) longer than the desexing ones? 

Dads Weimaraner bitches were tattooed. Britty lived well into her teens & it was obvious but not easy to read from memory. They'd have been done in the 80s, not sure what method they'd have used. 

 

 

[Maddy]

On 8/4/2017 at 9:10 PM, Simply Grand said:

Do the ID type ear tattoos on Greys, GSDs, Dobes etc last (stay visible) longer than the desexing ones? 

 

I had assumed that the desexing tattoos were not actually going that deep into the skin because they fade so much quicker than actual tattoos on humans and just curious if the ID tattoos are a more intensive process in order to last longer or not? 

 

Also, I obviously don't know who does and does not have tattoos themselves but I have a couple of small ones and while they were painful to get there wasn't pain afterwards, just some mild itchiness as they scabbed over so I don't know that animals would suffer much if any pain/discomfort with it being done under anaesthetic. Obviously if it was done without anaesthesia I would expect them to be very distressed about it

Some do, some don't. I've had senior greys with crisp, clear brands but on the other hand, younger greys with brands that were either barely legible or not legible at all. Some had been placed where there was significant hair growth, which was entirely user error but others should not have faded as badly as they did. Also, because of how it is done, there is always the possibility of brands being misread during to partial fading. 8 becomes 5 or zero and so on. To rely on them for identification would be very foolish, in my opinion.

 

Greyhounds are not anaesthetised for ear brands and apparently, their ears are not checked at all prior to beginning. Idiot Dog had very severe ear mites when his were done and cleaning up his ears was revolting- the pain from the infection caused by mites, compounded by the pain of someone crushing large pins into your pinnae.. It rarely leaves lasting physical damage but anyone who thinks it's a pain-free procedure or that puppies "forget" the experience is out to breakfast, lunch and tea (and I'd bet they certainly wouldn't be willing to volunteer to have it done to them  )

[Scrappi&Monty]

@Maddy

Holy crap, yeah they shouldn't do that without anaesthesia!!  

Edited August 6, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty