Woman mauled to death at Perth boarding kennels

[Scottsmum]

That's very sad @tdierikx

[Simply Grand]

4 hours ago, asal said:

when i was a child a neighbour was killed by his dog. he had come home in the pouring rain in a new coat and rushed through the side gate in a hurry to get out of the rain. his dog was startled and went straight for the throat. he only bit once as the second he had he realised who he was and let go immediately but problem was he had hit the juglular, is wife saw it but the ambulance arrived too late. just pure bad luck regardless of breed although the bigger the dog the more chance, his dog was a german shepherd. the dog was a devestated as the wife she believed , well that is what she told my mum and she did not have him put down and died of old age some 10 years later n had never bitten anyone else since although perhaps that might be more catagerised as a freak accident? she took and risk and was lucky

That's really tragic, the poor wife  

[Simply Grand]

Interesting points made about small dogs often being quicker to react with aggression, as in biting, than bigger dogs. Now that I think about it I would say I've observed that too. I'd say part of the reason we see is that people don't do anything about small dogs displaying aggression and allow the behaviour to be rehearsed but I also wonder if it is something that happens instinctively if they are threatened because they don't have much else to work with? Their warnings probably aren't listened to, or even noticed, by other dogs or (even more likely) humans so they quickly learn that they need to resort to snapping and biting to be listened to, whereas most people will notice and respond to a bigger dog standing and staring and teeth baring and growling before it has to escalate further.

[Scottsmum]

2 hours ago, Simply Grand said:

Interesting points made about small dogs often being quicker to react with aggression, as in biting, than bigger dogs. Now that I think about it I would say I've observed that too. I'd say part of the reason we see is that people don't do anything about small dogs displaying aggression and allow the behaviour to be rehearsed but I

also wonder if it is something that happens instinctively if they are threatened because they don't have much else to work with? Their warnings probably aren't listened to, or even noticed, by other dogs or (even more likely) humans so they quickly learn that they need to resort to snapping and biting to be listened to, whereas most people will notice and respond to a bigger dog standing and staring and teeth baring and growling before it has to escalate further.

Probably a bit of little dog syndrome too. It's "funny" when a 3kg Chi loses its shit. Its diwn right scary when a 45 kilo rotty does it...  

[tdierikx]

8 hours ago, Scottsmum said:

Probably a bit of little dog syndrome too. It's "funny" when a 3kg Chi loses its shit. Its diwn right scary when a 45 kilo rotty does it...  

I was scared sh!tless of small dogs for many years due to people thinking it is "funny" when their pampered prince/princess has a go at others... and still to this day, I'm much more aware of the fact that I'm much more likely to be bitten by a small dog than a larger one.

 

I still haven't met a Pembroke Corgi that hasn't tried to bite me, and as such still have a deep rooted leeriness of them... maybe they are picking up on that, but it's a subconscious thing that I can't control, as hard as I have tried over the years. Even Pembroke pups scare me!

 

T.

[Scottsmum]

6 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

I was scared sh!tless of small dogs for many years due to people thinking it is "funny" when their pampered prince/princess has a go at others... and still to this day, I'm much more aware of the fact that I'm much more likely to be bitten by a small dog than a larger one.

 

I still haven't met a Pembroke Corgi that hasn't tried to bite me, and as such still have a deep rooted leeriness of them... maybe they are picking up on that, but it's a subconscious thing that I can't control, as hard as I have tried over the years. Even Pembroke pups scare me!

 

T.

Oh. I'm not saying its acceptable or that they wont inflict damage.

 

But I do know Id prefer to have below knee height & under 10kgs come at me Vs anything over about. ..20...and I doubt know what I'd do if 45+ had a go. 

[Pjrt]

23 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

I was scared sh!tless of small dogs for many years due to people thinking it is "funny" when their pampered prince/princess has a go at others... and still to this day, I'm much more aware of the fact that I'm much more likely to be bitten by a small dog than a larger one.

 

I still haven't met a Pembroke Corgi that hasn't tried to bite me, and as such still have a deep rooted leeriness of them... maybe they are picking up on that, but it's a subconscious thing that I can't control, as hard as I have tried over the years. Even Pembroke pups scare me!

 

T.

I grew up with a Pembroke and it was a nasty POS of a dog. It bit my brother quite badly once. 

In my 32 yrs of grooming dogs, every single one I've handled has had a go. I just remind myself they are cattle dogs after all, and handle them with that in mind. It doesn't stop them having a go, but it stops me getting bitten! I'm seriously concerned with the massive popularity boom in corgis. They seem to have become popular with a certain demographic that are often first time pet owners, and they are experiencing high levels of 'behavioural issues' (which can mostly be attributed to the nature of a cattle dog) , but don't work so well with young families, suburbia, apartments etc! 

Edited August 4, 2017 by mingaling

[Scrappi&Monty]

@mingaling 

 

Oh that's a shame you've had such bad experiences with corgis.  

(Cute photos though haha! Corgis are so weird ) 

Goes to show it doesn't matter what breed, any dog could be aggressive. (But at the same time not all dogs of a certain breed are aggressive.) Scrappi is thankfully the sweetest, friendliest dog, who knows his boundaries. He is a corgi x terrier; so would have the instincts to herd & chase, and the terrier instincts to "grab & shake" small prey. For some corgi x terriers, this could be a potentially dangerous combo. Some people don't know their dog well enough and would be alarmed when their dog chased after a chicken, cat or a small squealing child. Thankfully Scrappi knows his boundaries, and has never even so much as growled at a human. He "herds" Monty while Monty does zoomies, that's their game. And he tugs and shakes tug toys. But he knows when it's not okay.

Same goes for Monty, a staffy type dog, people think his breed is aggressive and dangerous, but he is the most loving sooky cuddlebug I think I've ever met.  

[tdierikx]

It's only the Pembrokes that I have a fear of... Cardigans are just fine... go figure?

 

Even at a doggy day at the local canine council grounds, the Pembrokes (who I was assured were friendly and would change my mind about them) had a go... the owner was shocked that they did it too! I did nothing freaky to make them react that way...

 

I'm sure it's a vibe I'm putting off when I go near them... and they pick up on it and only reinforce my fears by lunging and yapping at me... and most times having a snap too! It even happened with some 12 week old pups having a go... norty buggers!

 

T.

 

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

46 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

It's only the Pembrokes that I have a fear of... Cardigans are just fine... go figure?

 

Even at a doggy day at the local canine council grounds, the Pembrokes (who I was assured were friendly and would change my mind about them) had a go... the owner was shocked that they did it too! I did nothing freaky to make them react that way...

 

I'm sure it's a vibe I'm putting off when I go near them... and they pick up on it and only reinforce my fears by lunging and yapping at me... and most times having a snap too! It even happened with some 12 week old pups having a go... norty buggers!

 

T.

 

 

Off topic.... but;

Sounds like maybe since you have had a few issues with them that you subconsciously become paranoid/nervous around them and they pick up on that. You may behave differently to Pembrokes than any other regular dogs by accident.

I'm sure perhaps if you wanted you could try some techniques to make yourself more confident around them ("hey you're a human, and they're just little shorties with fluffy butts and silly ears . And you like other dogs, they're no different, you can boss corgis around." I'm sure you can trick yourself into being confident around them and then they might be less feisty?)

I used to be  terrified of dogs as a little girl, then somewhere along the line I became confident enough that they respected me and didn't act so silly/pushy/scary. I learned how to predict their actions and now I'm a crazy dog lover! I'm sure it could apply to different breeds too. I feel a bit confused around cats because I'm not used to them, but once I get to know them better I'm sure I'd understand them more & like them more. 

[persephone]

oh, T  

[DogsAndTheMob]

I'm surprised that nobody has questioned the "bullmastiff" label given to this dog. I've never seen a bullmastiff that looked like it. 

 

I agree that large dogs can more easily cause injury than small dogs can, but I also agree that you can't judge a dog by the breed. I've met some lovely staffy and bully type dogs, and I've owned some wonderful German shepherds. Conversely, I've had some frightening encounters with harmless-looking dogs.

 

Many years ago, as a dog training instructor, I was asked to help a woman with her 6-month-old border collie x Labrador. The woman handed me the lead and the dog immediately went for my throat. I barely had strength to hold it off me until I could wrap the lead around a post. I believe I would have been seriously injured if the dog had been fully grown. A few weeks later, the dog attacked its owner, ripping her skin badly through two layers of clothes. The vet reproached the owner for requesting the euthanasia of the dog.I wondered afterwards whether the dog had a neurological disorder - ceroid lipofuscinosis perhaps. (Unlikely, but not impossible if it had border collie on both sides of its parentage.) I was caught off-guard because I didn't anticipate problems from that sort of puppy.

 

When my son was born, I took him to visit a friend who was chief instructor at a local dog club. We sat down and I put my baby's basinnet at my feet. My friend's very quiet Setter sat at her side, then suddenly pounced. I snatched up the basinnet and my friend grabbed her dog. We were both experienced dog trainers, but neither of us saw any warning signs for what could have become a calamity.

[spikey]

26 minutes ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

I'm surprised that nobody has questioned the "bullmastiff" label given to this dog. I've never seen a bullmastiff that looked like it. 

 

Some news reports here in Perth have described the dog as a Bullmastiff X (which is quite possibly correct, given the look of the dog), however both dogs were microchipped and registered and those who have spoken to the media on behalf of the local council have referred to the attacking dog as a Bullmastiff, so that may well be the breed the dog was registered as on council records.  

[tdierikx]

6 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

Off topic.... but;

Sounds like maybe since you have had a few issues with them that you subconsciously become paranoid/nervous around them and they pick up on that. You may behave differently to Pembrokes than any other regular dogs by accident.

I'm sure perhaps if you wanted you could try some techniques to make yourself more confident around them ("hey you're a human, and they're just little shorties with fluffy butts and silly ears . And you like other dogs, they're no different, you can boss corgis around." I'm sure you can trick yourself into being confident around them and then they might be less feisty?)

I used to be  terrified of dogs as a little girl, then somewhere along the line I became confident enough that they respected me and didn't act so silly/pushy/scary. I learned how to predict their actions and now I'm a crazy dog lover! I'm sure it could apply to different breeds too. I feel a bit confused around cats because I'm not used to them, but once I get to know them better I'm sure I'd understand them more & like them more. 

I know it's completely irrational tobe so afraid of Pembrokes, and I DO try to put my big girl pants on and try to meet them when the owners say they are friendly... but the little buggers always know that deep inside, this particular person is sh!t scared of them...

 

As for the Bulmastiff label for the dog in the OP... seems pounds and rescues all over tend to whack the monniker on anything large and tan... *sigh*

 

T.

[Simply Grand]

43 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

 

 

As for the Bulmastiff label for the dog in the OP... seems pounds and rescues all over tend to whack the monniker on anything large and tan... *sigh*

 

T.

Or just large! My foster Molly was labelled as a Mastiff x when she was clearly a Greyhound/Bull Arab type mix with possibly every other breed BUT mastiff in her. And she wasn't even tan, she was black.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Simply Grand

[DogsAndTheMob]

4 hours ago, spikey said:

Some news reports here in Perth have described the dog as a Bullmastiff X (which is quite possibly correct, given the look of the dog), however both dogs were microchipped and registered and those who have spoken to the media on behalf of the local council have referred to the attacking dog as a Bullmastiff, so that may well be the breed the dog was registered as on council records.  

I'm sceptical about breed identification on microchip records. Puppy farmers and pet shops seem to attach the label that will sell best.

[spikey]

2 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

I'm sceptical about breed identification on microchip records. Puppy farmers and pet shops seem to attach the label that will sell best.

There's been nothing I've seen in the various reports about how old the dog is though.  If he's a former abuse case - and who knows, maybe from a backyard breeder? - it's possible he wasn't microchipped until he went into rescue and/or until she got him.  In any case, I'd assume she would have filled in the paperwork for his council registration (especially if she moved from another council area, as you can't transfer between councils here in Perth - not sure if you can in other places?) so she would have had to indicate a breed - or cross-breed - when completing that.  

Edited August 5, 2017 by spikey

[asal]

On 03/08/2017 at 4:20 PM, spikey said:

This tragic situation has brought back some chilling memories for me, of what might have been ...

 

I think my in-laws were fortunate not to end up in a similar situation a few years ago.   They've owned dogs for years so are pretty sensible people and absolutely adored our girl (sadly passed now) and it had been quite a while since their previous dog died, so they went to the pound and got a Mastiff X puppy from a litter that had been dumped.  She seemed OK at first but as she grew, she had a very unnerving habit of just staring at people, not in a curious way, but almost in an intimidating fashion.  I never felt at ease around that dog at all, there was just something "not right" about her and she soon started to dominate the household.  You couldn't stand on a certain mat because that was the one she liked to lie on, she didn't like being corrected - she shoved her face towards some food I was eating on one occasion and I lightly tapped her on the nose and said "uh uh" - my mother-in-law immediately said in a panicked voice "don't do that, she doesn't like that".  She certainly didn't, the dog literally glared at me and I just felt my skin crawl, and I don't think she would even have been 9 months old then.   There were a lot of similar behaviours as well, which my in-laws tried to deal with, but she just didn't respond to the usual training, positive reinforcement etc, and I wouldn't have trusted the dog as far as I could throw her.  I've done obedience for years and have handled and trained a number of large dogs, but I wouldn't have touched her with a barge pole.  

 

My father-in-law didn't have too much difficulty with her as he's got a very strong personality, but she had it all over my mother-in-law, who was becoming increasingly nervous around her and I was always terrified we'd get "that" phone call, saying that the dog had badly injured MIL ... or worse.    They discussed the situation with their vet numerous times and she recommended they put the dog to sleep, which (much to our huge relief) they did when she was just over a year old.  A necropsy revealed that she had a brain tumour, so all the training and love and care in the world wouldn't have made any difference to her behaviour, which was becoming increasingly dangerous.  

this is the very reason I so dislike the trend to always blame the breeder or the owner when a dog goes bad.

 

you really will never know the cause for the majority and that is not the first time a brain tumour or damage is behind it. we had a beautiful border collie who was kicked in the head by a friends horse when he was 9 months old, raced to the vet we thought he was a goner, but the vet rang the next morning to say he had removed a 20 shilling size piece of shattered bone from his skull and he was up and happy this morning, when would we like to pick him up. he had a line of stitches and a slump in his skin where the bone was missing but fine for the next 5 years before things began to change. he began to look intently at people, typical collie stare to control the sheep but a menace was there in his eyes too.  He took to jumping the fence and it was 6 foot paling fence and rounding up the people who walked down to the bus stop and holding them in the park beside the bus stop, we would have to catch him and bring him home, at first everyone thought it was funny and so did we but when they ignored him and went to board the bus he began to show his teeth and threaten them.  One day I came home in the rain umbrella up and he came over the fence and came at me staring at me like he was mad, it was very scarey, I called his name but he made no hint he heard or recognised me.  He plainly wanted me to not move but I took a step forward and he leapt for my face or throat, not sure which and I screamed his name at him and in midair he reacted and twisted sideways to not hit me and ran home very distressed. We took him straight to the vet and he said he had developed I forget what he said it was, scarinng?  anyway he kept him overnight and he said he was having a form of fitting where he would recognise the vet one minute and then not recognise anyone and move to attack them, he believe during these sessesions he was in a great deal of pain and he was put down.

 

There is too much of a blame game going on with the people who say no animal becomes bad unless someone is to blame, and people persavere with what could and in that ladys case end up so tragic.

 

no one seems to have mentioned it here , but I was at a lesson day yesterday and two said the reports have come back he bit her on her legs and struck an artery and she bled out.  Poor lady.

[tdierikx]

Not all dogs (and especially not all those in rescue) go "bad" because of abuse. Rescue and rescue adopters likes to play on "abuse" as a scapegoat for a dog whose behaviour is unacceptable.

 

Some dogs are just born with bad nerve/temperament... so let's just acknowledge that fact... and if we can't fix the issue, then maybe the dog needs to be "rehomed to god", rather than foisting an animal with dangerous issues out into the public domain. Not everything with a pulse "must be saved"... grr!

 

T.

[persephone]

32 minutes ago, asal said:

but I was at a lesson day yesterday and two said the reports have come back he bit her on her legs and struck an artery and she bled out.  Poor lady.

Ahhh... that makes sense ... those last minutes would have been just awful for her
Thoughts flying to her family , kennel regulars ....