Woman mauled to death at Perth boarding kennels

[spikey]

Some possible past history on the mastiff:  

 

Lee, a family friend, told Radio 6PR's Oliver Peterson that the dog was "well known for being aggressive," but that she loved it anyway.

"Being a rescue dog, it doesn't matter what the breed is, any dog can be aggressive if it's abused as a young dog and any dog can be a dear, loving dog regardless of its breed. And this one was unfortunately abused when it was young and she rescued it.

"And anyone knows who's been around abused dogs that they snap, just over nothing, over the smallest things, and unfortunately she was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

"The best way I can put it is that she thinks every dog deserves a second chance and she just loved every dog that came through there. She was a very caring woman."

[Simply Grand]

Spikey, I just saw an FB post with a news report saying what you've mentioned and interviewing a behaviourist of 30 years experience expressing concern about "every dog deserves a second chance" mentality of some rescue groups. Fortunately this woman hadn't rehomed this dog to an unsuspecting new owner but it appears she may have unfortunately paid the ultimate price for wanting to save him despite his aggression

 

ETA sounds like there were multiple bites to arms and legs and perhaps the dog got the femoral artery and the poor woman bled out...so sad and should never have happened

Edited August 2, 2017 by Simply Grand

[Loving my Oldies]

13 hours ago, Simply Grand said:

Spikey, I just saw an FB post with a news report saying what you've mentioned and interviewing a behaviourist of 30 years experience expressing concern about "every dog deserves a second chance" mentality of some rescue groups. Fortunately this woman hadn't rehomed this dog to an unsuspecting new owner but it appears she may have unfortunately paid the ultimate price for wanting to save him despite his aggression

 

ETA sounds like there were multiple bites to arms and legs and perhaps the dog got the femoral artery and the poor woman bled out...so sad and should never have happened

And these are the stories that are going around and need to be highlighted as to how much of the truth they are.  I also heard in one news report that some of her injuries were old - ie she had been bitten on other occasions.  There is so much hype in the media today and on social media that we hear and on tell so many stories and how many of them are true?  

 

We need to hear the truth, because other rescue groups would have rehomed that dog, probably telling the new owners he was wonderful and loved people.  

 

We have to grieve for that poor woman suffering a horrendous death and also feel horror and compassion for her daughter finding her.  We also need to point out the foolishness of some people out of the goodness of their hearts.  Just so sad.  

[spikey]

Yes, it's a very very sad situation - it sounds like her heart was in the right place and that she meant well, but those same attributes may also have led to a massive error of judgment as far as this dog was concerned and it's now cost this lady her life.    Such a terrible tragedy, and I can't even imagine what her daughter must be going through, not to mention the emergency services and council staff who attended the scene as well. 

[BlaznHotAussies]

This is such a tragedy  

 

I really think the idea of saving every dog no matter the cost needs to stop as deaths like this are so preventable. If a dog can't be rehabilitated there are so many sweet, deserving dogs out there.

[BlaznHotAussies]

1 hour ago, spikey said:

Yes, it's a very very sad situation - it sounds like her heart was in the right place and that she meant well, but those same attributes may also have led to a massive error of judgment as far as this dog was concerned and it's now cost this lady her life.    Such a terrible tragedy, and I can't even imagine what her daughter must be going through, not to mention the emergency services and council staff who attended the scene as well. 

Agree, I saw a comment saying all the people who attended are being given counselling. And I imagine the daughter would need it too - what a horrible thing to come across :'(

[spikey]

This tragic situation has brought back some chilling memories for me, of what might have been ...

 

I think my in-laws were fortunate not to end up in a similar situation a few years ago.   They've owned dogs for years so are pretty sensible people and absolutely adored our girl (sadly passed now) and it had been quite a while since their previous dog died, so they went to the pound and got a Mastiff X puppy from a litter that had been dumped.  She seemed OK at first but as she grew, she had a very unnerving habit of just staring at people, not in a curious way, but almost in an intimidating fashion.  I never felt at ease around that dog at all, there was just something "not right" about her and she soon started to dominate the household.  You couldn't stand on a certain mat because that was the one she liked to lie on, she didn't like being corrected - she shoved her face towards some food I was eating on one occasion and I lightly tapped her on the nose and said "uh uh" - my mother-in-law immediately said in a panicked voice "don't do that, she doesn't like that".  She certainly didn't, the dog literally glared at me and I just felt my skin crawl, and I don't think she would even have been 9 months old then.   There were a lot of similar behaviours as well, which my in-laws tried to deal with, but she just didn't respond to the usual training, positive reinforcement etc, and I wouldn't have trusted the dog as far as I could throw her.  I've done obedience for years and have handled and trained a number of large dogs, but I wouldn't have touched her with a barge pole.  

 

My father-in-law didn't have too much difficulty with her as he's got a very strong personality, but she had it all over my mother-in-law, who was becoming increasingly nervous around her and I was always terrified we'd get "that" phone call, saying that the dog had badly injured MIL ... or worse.    They discussed the situation with their vet numerous times and she recommended they put the dog to sleep, which (much to our huge relief) they did when she was just over a year old.  A necropsy revealed that she had a brain tumour, so all the training and love and care in the world wouldn't have made any difference to her behaviour, which was becoming increasingly dangerous.  

Edited August 3, 2017 by spikey

[Simply Grand]

Oh wow Spikey, that's really scary! I'm glad your in laws were sensible about the situation. 

[spikey]

4 minutes ago, Simply Grand said:

Oh wow Spikey, that's really scary! I'm glad your in laws were sensible about the situation. 

I was in fear the whole time they had her that something would happen.  We tried to persuade them to get rid of her but you know what parents are like!  They can be a bit stubborn LOL and I think because she was a young dog, they wanted to persevere with her but yes, I am very glad they made the right (and the only sensible) decision in the end.  

[Rascalmyshadow]

I can't imagine what everyone surrounding this situation is going through the dogs included, unfortunately dogs that control and bite their owners is not as uncommon as people might think.

 

I have groomed many dogs over the years that have injured their owners on more than one occasion, and it has been bad enough to need stitching and/or medical treatment.

Most of them have been little dogs so not big enough to kill an adult but certainly able to do damage.

 

Some of them were due to owners having no idea of the dogs body language and putting them into threatening situations but others the dogs had abnormal behaviour, almost everyone of them was dangerous.

 

 

 

[Two Best Dogs!]

I like the majority of this article, it is quite informative, including giving the casual reader an idea of stressed behaviour to look out for and that there's more to a dog than genetics:

 

LINK

Quote

 

Dog attack: Animal behaviourists say it's not breeds that are dangerous, it's their environment

By Eliza Laschon and Sarah Collard

Updated about 10 hours ago

 

The death of a woman mauled by a dog in southern Perth on Tuesday has reignited the debate about whether specific breeds are more dangerous and need to be banned.

Barko's Boarding Kennel owner Sue Lopicich was attacked and mauled to death by her bull mastiff in the suburb of Southern River.

The woman was found by her daughter, who came to check on her mother after she failed to turn up for work.

Perth animal rescue service Dogs Behind Bars Rescue issued a statement on Thursday, saying they were heartbroken to hear of Ms Lopicich's passing, but also concerned about the attention paid to the bull mastiff breed as a result.

"There has been much speculation about how these tragic events came about," the statement said.

"What we do know is that Sue would be horrified by the attention being on background or breed of the dog involved in this sad situation."

Veterinarian and animal behaviourist Kate Lindsey said there was no such thing as an aggressive breed.

"Aggressive behaviour can occur in any breed, just like aggression can occur in any person, given the right circumstances," she said.

 

"The three factors that drive any behaviours are genetics, environment and experience."

 

Dr Lindsey said a dog attack against its owner was an incredibly rare event, and it was dangerous to blame it on a breed.

Watch out for:

• Signs of fear or anxiety include: the dog wants space, lunges barks or growls, freezes or stares
• Signs of stress include: yawning, stiff body, a high tail or tucking it under its body
• Ears back, closed mouth and visible whites of eyes

"We have to be careful not to generalise that it is a behaviour that is specific to a certain breed," she said.

 

"There are many wonderful, mixed-breed bull mastiff staffies out there that are incredibly loving members of their family."

 

Ms Lindsey said she looked at the vision of the dog issued by the pound, and it was exhibiting signs it was frightened and anxious.

 

"So this is a very behaviourally unwell dog, that has been in a very specific set of circumstances, that has led to the inadvertent injury and death of a very compassionate dog lover.

 

"And there is always a trigger. These behaviours are very unlikely to occur for no reason."

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Thistle the dog
funky formatting

[sandgrubber]

Tragic.  

As for Dr Lindsay's comments.  Sure, most any dog could turn aggressive.  However I'd much rather cope with 20 kg (or less) of aggressive dog than 60 kg.  

Caution needs to be scaled to a dog's size, musculature, and signs of aggressiveness.  I look back to a huge, bad tempered Dane I once looked after and say, "That could have been me."

[spikey]

"Ms Lindsey said she looked at the vision of the dog issued by the pound, and it was exhibiting signs it was frightened and anxious."  Well, that's hardly rocket science, the majority of dogs I've seen in the pound look like that when they've just been brought in, it tends to be a very distressing  experience for most dogs so of course they're "frightened and anxious" -  

it's more the reports of the dog's previous behaviour and past history that would account for it being "behaviourally unwell" rather than just seeing the footage from the pound, but maybe her comment was taken out of context or badly edited?  

 

And the comment "that has led to the inadvertent injury and death ..."  I'm sorry, but no.  A dog doesn't just "inadvertently" attack and maul someone, especially seriously enough to kill them.  It's not as if he accidentally knocked her over and she suffered a head injury and died from the fall (unless that comes out later, and is a possibility I suppose, but there's no getting around the fact that she had numerous bites from the attack).   I certainly agree there was obviously a trigger and that this situation was very unlikely to happen for no reason, but I think the use of the word "inadvertent" was a poor choice on her part.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by spikey

[Rascalmyshadow]

2 hours ago, Thistle the dog said:

I like the majority of this article, it is quite informative, including giving the casual reader an idea of stressed behaviour to look out for and that there's more to a dog than genetics:

 

LINK

 

Some of what she is saying is true it might be rare for a dog to kill its owner but when you work close enough daily with many dogs and their owners it is certainly not rare people owning dogs that regularly threaten/bite them.

 

Also certain breeds should not be targeted but the bigger the dog the more damage they can inflict so are definitely a bigger risk if there are any aggression issues and should be managed much more cautiously.

 

I have a 1.8kg chihuahua that has to be locked up if we have visitors as she will bite unprovoked (she's fine with us) her bite is minimal, kinda like being pinched with finger nails and she is obviously very easy contained, now if she was a 50kg dog and behaved like that she would have been PTS a long time ago as for me the risk of someone being seriously injured would be too high.

[Maddy]

1 hour ago, Rascalmyshadow said:

Some of what she is saying is true it might be rare for a dog to kill its owner but when you work close enough daily with many dogs and their owners it is certainly not rare people owning dogs that regularly threaten/bite them.

 

Also certain breeds should not be targeted but the bigger the dog the more damage they can inflict so are definitely a bigger risk if there are any aggression issues and should be managed much more cautiously.

 

I have a 1.8kg chihuahua that has to be locked up if we have visitors as she will bite unprovoked (she's fine with us) her bite is minimal, kinda like being pinched with finger nails and she is obviously very easy contained, now if she was a 50kg dog and behaved like that she would have been PTS a long time ago as for me the risk of someone being seriously injured would be too high.

What applies to one individual and their bite inhibition might not apply to another of the same breed though. I've been bitten by a chihuahua (while cutting the poor dog's monstrously overgrown nails) and the pain was incredible. Thin, small teeth that are blunt at the ends (unlike cat teeth that are sharper and piece with less force), driven into my fingers with a lot of pressure. The holes were small but the surrounding tissue was badly damaged and I'd say easily the most painful bite I've ever gotten.

On the other hand, I was bitten by my 30kg greyhound (post ictal state, my own fault for not keeping him quiet) and although it wasn't fun, it hurt a lot less and healed much quicker. Bearing in mind that this was during a state where his inhibitions were significantly lowered so the difference between the two incidents is incredible, when you think about it.

 

That doesn't mean all greyhound bites are better than all chihuahua bites, just a difference in individuals. That said, my personal experience has been that smaller dogs are more likely to bite, to start with. Sure, they generally do less physical damage but owners are often totally unconcerned by the aggression or even think it's funny. Aggression in larger dogs is almost always taken seriously and you can bet if a large dog bites a person, it'll be much more likely to be destroyed than a smaller dog.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Any dog can do damage not disputing that, the only bite I have had in the 22years I've been grooming and specialising in nervous/aggressive dogs was from a 4-5 month old Maltesex pup, still had sharp baby teeth and it meant business, tore my finger top to bottom, all I did was put a pair of scissors near its face and it went crazy, was completely unexpected and very unusual for such a young dog, found out it had a lot to do with what it's owners had been doing to it, if it had of been a large dog and grabbed me that quick I would have been in serious trouble.

 

Another scenario I wasn't bitten but I was grooming a very large rescue golden retriever about 40-45kg dog, for the first time, dog was fine one minute, in a matter of seconds without warning it turned nasty, blocked me from getting out of my grooming room, luckily I stayed calm and had a slip lead in reach, managed to flick it over its head and manoeuvre the dog enough to get out. 

 

The bite from the little dog didn't worry me even though it hurt like hell, but being seriously threatened by a dog that weighed as much as me, that was a whole different level.

[tdierikx]

It's not rocket science to realise that a bite with intent from a large dog will do a hell of a lot more damage than the same bite type from a smaller breed dog...

 

That said, I've had quite a few more smaller dogs go for the intentional savage bite than larger breeds... but that's only my own experience, based on interacting with LOTS of dogs during my years with rescue AND working in boarding kennels (which also ran security dogs). There were one or two larger dogs that I definitely wasn't brave enough to try to interact with in all that time...

 

T.

[Scrappi&Monty]

Yes it's true that obviously a small dog won't be able to do as much damage to an adult human as a larger dog could, but BSL is proven not to work and definitely people shouldn't assume just because it's a bullmastiff it's dangerous. As most DOLers would agree, there certainly can be some lovely super gentle big dogs and some savage aggressive little dogs. Although little dogs can't do as much damage, they do seem a lot more likely to resort to agression since the owners dismiss it. 

That's what the general public seem to get mixed up. People assume pitbulls/staffies/rotties/gsd's are aggressive because the media has told them, and they think that giant breeds are aggressive because they are big, and they assume that small fluffy dogs are friendly because they are cute and little and fluffy. 

[asal]

when i was a child a neighbour was killed by his dog. he had come home in the pouring rain in a new coat and rushed through the side gate in a hurry to get out of the rain. his dog was startled and went straight for the throat. he only bit once as the second he had he realised who he was and let go immediately but problem was he had hit the juglular, is wife saw it but the ambulance arrived too late. just pure bad luck regardless of breed although the bigger the dog the more chance, his dog was a german shepherd. the dog was a devestated as the wife she believed , well that is what she told my mum and she did not have him put down and died of old age some 10 years later n had never bitten anyone else since although perhaps that might be more catagerised as a freak accident? she took and risk and was lucky

[tdierikx]

When I was 6, I used to take a neighbour's 2 Dobermanns for a walk each afternoon. I would knock on the front door, the neighbour would take me out the back and attach the leads, then I'd go out the back gate to the playing fields our yards backed onto. I'd walk them for 4-5 laps, then bring them back through the back gate, knock on the back door, and the neighbour would give me a soft drink or piece of cake, then I'd go home.

 

One afternoon, I got there to find the police there, and I was told I wouldn't be able to walk the dogs any more as they had been shot. Turns out that some idiot had jumped the back fence and was trying to break into the house when the dogs "got him". The would be burglar apparently didn't survive the experience, so the police shot them. I ran home crying my little heart out that they'd done that to those 2 beautiful gentle dogs that I loved so much... I think I threw a few choice words no 6 year old girl should be using at the poor cops that had had to do the deed through my tears too...

 

I learned a very hard lesson that day... dogs could be "dangerous"...

 

T.