Help with choosing worming meds

[Scrappi&Monty]

I need to buy more dog worming meds, and was thinking of swapping from Sentinel/Interceptor for a change. (Because apparently it helps prevent the parasites becoming immune to the poison?)

 

I found one called Canimax that 

• Prevents Heartworm
• Treats Roundworm
• Treats Hookworm
• Treats Whipworm
• Treats Tapeworm

 

it is a 6-weekly dosage and is only $38 for 4 tabs (would last us 6mths)

Scrappi is approx 12kg and Monty is approx 22kg. And the large dose is for 10-20kg dogs, would that work? 

 

Each large tablet contains:

0.2mg Abamectin, 100mg Praziquantel, 450mg Oxibendazole. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[_PL_]

Sounds ok  

Fleas can get immune to things, not sure if worms can too but it doesn't hurt to change things up.  


I just use a monthly heartworm only tab, and then an allwormer every 3 months or so, it's kind of a waste to do intestinal worms each month plus it's added chemicals. I buy the lge version of everything and divide it up but it looks like Canimax only comes in 5, 10 and 20kg so I'm no help at all there really. lol.

[Scrappi&Monty]

1 hour ago, Powerlegs said:

Sounds ok  

Fleas can get immune to things, not sure if worms can too but it doesn't hurt to change things up.  


I just use a monthly heartworm only tab, and then an allwormer every 3 months or so, it's kind of a waste to do intestinal worms each month plus it's added chemicals. I buy the lge version of everything and divide it up but it looks like Canimax only comes in 5, 10 and 20kg so I'm no help at all there really. lol.

We feed raw offal so I feel like protection against worms, particularly hydatids is important right? 

[_PL_]

Absolutely! I didn't think of offal. 

[sandgrubber]

Fenbenzidol (sp ?), used to treat tapeworm, is expensive, and unnecessary if tapeworm isn't present.  Not sure what it's like in Oz...but in the US I did regular heartworm treatment and only treated worms when they were detected.  Tapeworm is gross, and very obvious.  Roundworm and other easy to treat worms are covered by some heartworm meds.

Edited July 26, 2017 by sandgrubber

[Rappie]

28 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

Fenbenzidol (sp ?), used to treat tapeworm, is expensive, and unnecessary if tapeworm isn't present.  Not sure what it's like in Oz...but in the US I did regular heartworm treatment and only treated worms when they were detected.  Tapeworm is gross, and very obvious.  Roundworm and other easy to treat worms are covered by some heartworm meds.

Praziquantel is the medication used to treat tapeworm and it is very inexpensive if purchased alone. 

[_PL_]

@Rappie re offal, how fast is the hydatid tapeworm life cycle?  Do you need to allworm monthly or three monthly? 

[sandgrubber]

5 hours ago, Rappie said:

Praziquantel is the medication used to treat tapeworm and it is very inexpensive if purchased alone. 

Oops.  Senior moment. You're right. Praziquantel is what is used for tapeworm.  Fenbenzidol treats various other worms.  In the USA praziquantel relatively expensive, enough so that people with many dogs sometimes get the same chemical as sold for fish farming to avoid the mark-up on veterinary medicine.  

Sorry I got mixed up.  But I think it makes sense to taylor meds to the worms you anticipate ...or see.  

I worry that worms may develop resistance if workers are used indiscriminately.

[Rappie]

5 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

@Rappie re offal, how fast is the hydatid tapeworm life cycle?  Do you need to allworm monthly or three monthly? 

If you're treating for hydatid tapeworm specifically it is every 6 weeks (with praziquantel).

Routine intestinal worming treatment is every 3 months. 

With many of the combination products on the market, the monthly frequency of administration is for heartworm and often the intestinal worming is a 'side effect' (for want of a better term) of the main active ingredient. With respect to heartworm, the most important consideration across all of the options is whether the treatments will be given frequently enough to provide continuous coverage (ie no point getting a monthly treatment if they are given every few months when you remember!).  Combo products are great but equally there would be no issue with monthly heartworm + 3 monthly intestinal worming (+ dose of praziquantel at the halfway mark if you need to cover hydatids). 

It also important to check what your "allwormer" covers - it can include "all" worms (heartworm + intestinal worms including hydatid), all intestinal worms (including hydatid) or 'most' worms (so includes tapeworm but not hydatids). 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Rappie

[Scrappi&Monty]

Thanks @Rappie

This is what we were doing:

Scrappi (12kg) 

- Fleas: Advantage 

(Imidacloprid Pyriproxyfen)

- Worms: Interceptor spectrum 

(milbemycin oxime and praziquantel)

 

We give Scrappi two because we used to give Sentinel, but he got a flea bite and turns out he has flea allergy dermatitis. Sentinel doesn't kill adult fleas. 

 

Monty (22kg) 

- Sentinel Spectrum 

(Lufenuron, milbemycin oxime and praziquantel)

 

But I was thinking of changing these up a bit, I had found some cheaper alternatives (not that it's an issue, I'll pay more for better) 

 

[Scrappi&Monty]

Turns out Milbemax is the same as Interceptor (milbemycin and praziquantel) 

it just has a little bit more of the drug in it. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[Rappie]

Yes the Milbemax is very much the same but has only two dosing brackets: 0-5kg and 5-25kg. It can be given monthly for heartworm or 3 monthly for intestinal worms. It is sometimes more economical than interceptor depending on the size of the dog. 

Sentinel is good at what it does so long as you understand the mode of action (as I see you do) but there are other similar products that are better for flea control.

 

[Maddy]

Have you considered rotating between Advocate and Revolution? 

Advocate is Imidacloprid and moxidectin, which means you'll need to treat separately for tapeworm. I use Drontal for that.

Revolution is selamectin. I use with Milbemax or sometimes skip a month. We don't have heartworm down here though so skipping monthly worming may not be appropriate for where you are. We also don't spot-on treat for ticks, we use Permoxin spray on dogs if we're taking them out.

Revolution in 6 packs comes with a wormer (Canex, from memory) but.. ugh. Who makes a worming tablet fluoro pink? It also smells very strong, even to my crappy human nose. To dogs, the smell must be like being slapped around the face. 

 

I used to use Canimax but with a few dogs in awkward ranges, it was getting quite expensive. It's a good product, although tablets are quite large, especially when compared with Milbemax.

In my experience with wormers, you do need to check dosages because while product X might seem cheaper than product Y, if product X contains less than half of one of the actives needed to reach recommended dosage, it ends up costing the same, if not more. They do also vary in palatability and overall quality. I couldn't begin to guess at how many worming tablets I've had to throw out because I've mixed them with food (instead of just tossing them down the hatch) and the dogs haven't liked the taste, even when covered up with a revolting mixture of peanut butter, tuna and ham paste (  ) . Canex was especially guilty of this issue. If you're willing/able to just give them as full tablets, taste/smell doesn't matter. I'm usually worming at least four dogs so hiding tablets is usually just quicker.

[karen15]

I put our meds in mince balls. If the ball is small enough, down the hatch it goes. Too big and they can eat around it.

 

with horses you have to alternate wormers as worms can become resistant.

 

I've heard of areas with fleas resistant to certain brands of flea treatment. Using newer treatments can work if the active ingredient is different.

 

So, I try to not over treat for fleas and worms and change active ingredients every so often, like I do with the horse.

[Scrappi&Monty]

Monty takes sentinel/Interceptor as a treat. 

Scrappi DESPISES them. He is a smart little fella, won't even let me cut it in tiny pieces and dose like a tablet, still spits it out (he will take aspirin tablets fine). 

I have to slice the chew up into tiny pieces, and make up some disgusting concoction in a bowl usually consisting of some of these:

tin tuna, tin sardines smushed, peanut butter, mince meat, cream cheese, kibble, apple, honey, ham, sausages, mashed banana etc 

[Maddy]

On 7/28/2017 at 9:08 PM, Scrappi&Monty said:

Monty takes sentinel/Interceptor as a treat. 

Scrappi DESPISES them. He is a smart little fella, won't even let me cut it in tiny pieces and dose like a tablet, still spits it out (he will take aspirin tablets fine). 

I have to slice the chew up into tiny pieces, and make up some disgusting concoction in a bowl usually consisting of some of these:

tin tuna, tin sardines smushed, peanut butter, mince meat, cream cheese, kibble, apple, honey, ham, sausages, mashed banana etc 

Or the trusty ham, tuna, peanut butter, ham paste, honey and cheese sandwich: Add some tuna, honey and ham paste to some peanut butter. Be generous with the honey because it makes the whole mess really sticky and hard to spit out. Crumble tablet into this mixture. Spread this hell paste onto a slice of champagne ham (because classy), sprinkle with cheese, roll up into a tube, feed this unholy mess to dog. 

If the dog is greedy enough, that'll be the end of the story. Otherwise, enjoy cleaning sticky, fishy peanut butter out of your carpets.

I mostly have large dogs so I find it easy to throw tablets down the hatch. There's a bit of a trick to it- I go in with the second knuckle of my second finger and that way, if they decide to bite down, it doesn't hurt. From that position (tablet pinched between thumb and second finger), it's really easy to reach the very back of the mouth. If you don't get past the tongue, they'll just herk it back out.

As for those chewy style wormers.. they really are worst. I've had some dogs who happily gobbled down Interceptor but most sniffed, realised it wasn't really a treat and then you have to saw the damn things into smaller bits to either hide in food or put down the throat. 2/10 Do not enjoy sawing tiny objects with steak knife.

Same goes for Drontal, actually. I'd rather have that as tablets. Curiously, you can buy it as tablets for small or medium dogs easily enough, but if you want it for large dogs, it often only seems to be available in bulk amounts (for place like Budget Pet Products) and when you work out the cost per treatment for the bulk amounts, it's actually not that cheap. I think somewhere in the region of $14 per dog ($17 per treatment in non-bulk quantities, for a 2 pack), compared to Canimax (roughly $14 per dog, assuming dog weighs between 20 and 40kg, which covers basically all greyhounds) or Paragard at $12 for a dog between 20 and 40kg. And both those alternative products can be purchased in normal consumer quantities.  If it weren't for the fact I quite like Drontal as a product, I'd be really reluctant to bother hunting for sellers who stock the large dog tabs in the small packs. 

[Scrappi&Monty]

Haha @Maddy I know your pain 

 

The creativity and lengths we have to go to for these cunning dogs haha! Yesterday I wrapped Scrappi's Interceptor in a tiny piece of smoked salmon... Spoilt I tell you!!  (It did the job though thankfully) 

[Maddy]

On a related note.. sort of entertaining/WTF story..

On Friday, while picking up supplies from my meat lady, another customer there was telling my meat lady that no, his dog didn't have worms (after said dog did a very wet, wormy poo on her floor ) and his reason for believing those things squirming around in the poo weren't worms*? Firstly, the dog "had its shots" a few months ago (cool, cool, but nothing to do with worms?) and secondly, because it had had worms, but he'd treated them by cooking some rice, frying some bacon in butter and then feeding those two things to the dog.

My meat lady looks at me, eyebrows raised, as if I might understand what had just happened. I have no idea. I'm trying really hard not to vomit- owner is standing there, holding the shovel that my meat lady gave him to clean it up, and the smell that is wafting off that shovel is diabolical. Nobody speaks. His dog is wandering around the shop, remnants of moist, wormy poo dangling from its bum fur. Dog cocks his leg on the bin for the second time since they got there, owner passes back shovel quickly, pays meat lady and he and the worm machine leave. And the conversation goes something like this:

"Meat Lady": Did he..?" She pauses here, still looking bewildered.
Maddy: "...."

ML: "Rice and bacon, fried in butter?"

M: "Maybe he meant-" Pauses, trying to think of something he might have meant.

ML: "I wormed Kiara** last week. I feel like I should worm her again."

M: Looking at scrapes of poo on the floor, from where he'd "cleaned" it up.. "Mm, yeah."
It was the most.. revolting, bizarre thing I've ever seen. So disgusting that it felt surreal. Like, finding yourself in an episode of The Twilight Zone, except with 90% more intestinal worms.

The moral of this episode.. I don't know.. I feel like maybe it should be.. like, stop letting it poo everywhere. There's a big dangly bit and.. why in the christ wouldn't you take it outside at this point?? 

 

*They were very definitely roundworms 

**The shop dog

[french fries]

Just the topic I was searching for. I'm tossing up between using Milbemax (5 -25kg) or Interceptor (4-11kg). (pup is coming up to 6 kg and looking for a heartwormer and allwormer. Such a big difference in ingredient amounts obviously to allow for weight range. Would usuing the milbemax be over kill?

hope my question makes sense.

Cheers

[Rappie]

2 hours ago, french fries said:

Just the topic I was searching for. I'm tossing up between using Milbemax (5 -25kg) or Interceptor (4-11kg). (pup is coming up to 6 kg and looking for a heartwormer and allwormer. Such a big difference in ingredient amounts obviously to allow for weight range. Would usuing the milbemax be over kill?

hope my question makes sense.

Cheers

Either would be appropriate options. If you are concerned about the Milbemax dose, use two of the small (0-5kg) tablets for <10kg.