Pollypops Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 My friend is looking a buying a Standard Poodle Pup and it was desexed at 8 weeks I can't see anything good about it, open to other opinions though. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Lots of breeds that are used in making the so called designer dogs are desexed before sale. Can't say I blame those breeders. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Yep, sadly it is done to prevent unauthorised breeding 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Yes , a breeder who clearly doesn't want their dogs going to homes just to make money off . That's a good thing ! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappi&Monty Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 The breeders have obviously weighed up the pros & cons and decided they'll risk the possible consequences of early desexing to ensure their pups are never bred from by backyard breeders. Yes, there are risks to early desexing but in my opinion it's not a deal breaker if I liked pretty much everything else about that breeder. Our rescue pup was desexed around 8-10 weeks old (as most rescue pups are, unless they are on a desexing contract) there haven't been any issues at all and he's 8yo now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verve Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I have a 4.5 year standard poodle male - he was sold on a desexing contract and desexed at 4 months. We have not had any health issues at all and I don't have a problem with it if it means stopping unscrupulous BYB of designer dogs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Yes sadly there are select breeds highly sort after for designer breeds so breeders are having to do what is in the best interest . We have a breed that is a popular designer cross & thus far haven't had to enforce pre sale spaying but will do so if required ,so far all our buyers follow the sale contract & we make sure they do unless a very good reason for why at that time it can't . Welcome to the world of good breeders who are dammed if they do & dammed if they don't 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Each to their own but I think it is wrong and strongly disagree with it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollypops Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Friend offered to buy from next litter with a desexing contract but breeder refused so she's not buying it She only wants a pet and will desex at 6 months but wont buy desexed at that age 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I think that's wise. I understand why poodle breeders do it, but it'd be a deal breaker for me especially if I wanted an active companion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Desexing at 8 weeks is a convenient, easy way for a breeder to absolve themselves of further responsibility. It certainly does not benefit the animal's health, if the many studies that suggest increased cancer/orthopedic risks are to be believed. Personally, I would not buy from a breeder who desexed at the age. If a breeder is willing to risk actual health to avoid potential unauthorised breeding, I think they have their priorities totally upside down. Further, if oodle breeding is going to happen anyway, surely it is better (both for the resulting pups and the people who buy them) for the parents to have come from breeders who will likely have paid more attention to health? Don't get me wrong- I disagree with random oodle breeding (and I wouldn't own one if they were the last dogs on Earth) but we can at least attempt to mitigate some of the potential problems. I'd much rather people were oodle-making with healthy parent animals than with BYB dogs full of heritable conditions that will guarantee a lifetime of misery for the pups. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, Maddy said: Desexing at 8 weeks is a convenient, easy way for a breeder to absolve themselves of further responsibility. It certainly does not benefit the animal's health, if the many studies that suggest increased cancer/orthopedic risks are to be believed. Personally, I would not buy from a breeder who desexed at the age. If a breeder is willing to risk actual health to avoid potential unauthorised breeding, I think they have their priorities totally upside down. Further, if oodle breeding is going to happen anyway, surely it is better (both for the resulting pups and the people who buy them) for the parents to have come from breeders who will likely have paid more attention to health? Don't get me wrong- I disagree with random oodle breeding (and I wouldn't own one if they were the last dogs on Earth) but we can at least attempt to mitigate some of the potential problems. I'd much rather people were oodle-making with healthy parent animals than with BYB dogs full of heritable conditions that will guarantee a lifetime of misery for the pups. No way will our puppies EVER be part of a puppy farm oodle programme & pups sold via pet shops ,that risk is far worse .I can't believe anyone would think it is better for a dog to be bred from this way than spayed early . I guess those with high risk feel the risks are better than being a breeding machine & yes owning a bred that is advertised every weekend as an oodle cross & anything else i feel no guilt what so ever spaying early but feel pride knowing our pups arent part of that industry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It's a hard one , but if you bred a quality poodle , sold it to what you thought was s good home , they decided they for whatever reason didn't want it anymore and didn't contact breeder but sold it entire on gumtree , ended up living s life of misery , being bred from and then sold on again when it was of no use , as apposed to possible health risks ? Which way to go ? Remember Leo ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I don't know that I'd want a Standard desexed that early to be honest. I'd prefer to wait longer if I could. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Some breeders are using vasectomies and ovary sparing spays in this situation. So they can't be bred but have their sex hormones until full maturity. For male pups it makes sense to me, but not sure about the females as most would have a full spay later and that means two surgeries. Not against it, I just don't know. I don't think any breeder should feel judged for their decision though, the risk a puppy might up being irresponsibly bred would weigh pretty heavily in a popular breed. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Barbaric IMHO but understand why the breeder feels it necessary (I have heard the deceptive lengths people will go to get an entire puppy of some breeds).......I would ask for (and offer to pay for if necessary) a vasectomy in a male, would definitely not buy a juvenile desexed female, seen too many cases of spay incontinence which leads to lifetime medication and indignity or exclusion of the bitch from the life she has been used to 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, dragonwoman said: Barbaric IMHO but understand why the breeder feels it necessary (I have heard the deceptive lengths people will go to get an entire puppy of some breeds).......I would ask for (and offer to pay for if necessary) a vasectomy in a male, would definitely not buy a juvenile desexed female, seen too many cases of spay incontinence which leads to lifetime medication and indignity or exclusion of the bitch from the life she has been used to Yes people go to great lengths and let's face people often post on here I just want a litter . Sadly one of the bigger issues are vets ,some very much encourage breeding and will even recommend clients to each other to breed there dogs too ,no health testing . We have had puppiy owners say but the vet said or the vet nurse reckons ,it is a struggle to ensure even the best of homes not being swayed by puppies or there dog at stud . Even then by allowing later spay you have to trust with male dogs the owner doesn't collect semen to on sell ,trust me many are sneaky In our bred we have numerous vets who just bred ,one even recommends puppy buyers to breed and how to breed for profit . Its funny really when the oodles and the likes took over people are like what sort of breeder would sell dogs to create then ,then when breeders take action it's wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Dogsfevr said: No way will our puppies EVER be part of a puppy farm oodle programme & pups sold via pet shops ,that risk is far worse .I can't believe anyone would think it is better for a dog to be bred from this way than spayed early . I guess those with high risk feel the risks are better than being a breeding machine & yes owning a bred that is advertised every weekend as an oodle cross & anything else i feel no guilt what so ever spaying early but feel pride knowing our pups arent part of that industry Your dogs, your choice I stated my view and I absolutely stand by it. The way I see it, it's removing any responsibility from your own shoulders and passing it onto a puppy buyer who might not know enough to fully understand all of the risks. If you're comfortable doing that, that's entirely your business. As for this.. Quote I can't believe anyone would think it is better for a dog to be bred from this way than spayed early I don't think you're understanding what I said. I'm not suggesting breeders should be selling their puppies knowingly to backyard breeders but backyard breeding is going to happen anyway so for the benefit of the puppies bred and the people who end up with them, surely it is better for those puppies to have come from healthy, well-bred parents. No one would want their puppy to end up living in a cage to mass produce puppies but again, would you rather see a relatively healthy dog standing in that cage or the dog with luxating patellas, whose every moment is agony, producing more dogs who will break the hearts of their owners when they die earlier deaths from heritable conditions. It's easy for registered breeders to say that it's not their problem, people shouldn't backyard breed, etc., but health and welfare are about more than just your own dogs. If it's not your dog suffering, it's another dog suffering. It's a no-win situation but it could be made somewhat less harmful. Is it better for backyard breeders or puppy farmers to use healthy, well-bred animals? Obviously. Is the risk of the dog being used for breeding reasonable when weighed against the risks of early spay/neuter? For the individual breeder, who is looking after their own interests only, probably not. For the health and welfare of dogs generally, I'd say yes. With regards to Leo.. what if he had been desexed at 8 weeks old, gone on to develop a cancer of the endocrine system and died as a young dog? We'd never have heard of him. Oscar's Law don't show graphic, emotive images of dogs quietly dying of cancer, while their heartbroken owners are powerless to save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Quote If a breeder is willing to risk actual health to avoid potential unauthorised breeding, Or the other way around as well. In some breeds I think it's more likely they will actually face unauthorised breeding more than potential health risks from desexing. Let's face it, speying or neutering early (I'm lumping them both under the term desexing for this post) can have health risks. Can, not always. Selling un desexed dogs can lead to dodgy people backyard breeding. Can, there is that word again. I can see both sides of the argument. Desexing early can, or let's say, might cause problems, there is research and evidence that it may do so. But not every dog desexed early has problems, many don't. Not desexing early is best for the dog growth wise, but means the dog can, let's say might be bred from by anyone at any time with no control. Which is worse? To be honest None or both. I'd say both have equal good and bad points. Not every dog sold entire will be bred from secretly on the side and not every dog desexed early will develop health problems. It's up to the individual as a breeder and a buyer as to what they choose. I think both sides of the argument are right in a way. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 20 hours ago, cannibalgoldfish said: Quote that won't go away. new editing box is painfully broken. Can't even cancel the reply D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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