Kodi: why is this forum quiet about it?

[Maddy]

13 hours ago, Simply Grand said:

Seems like it is unproven allegations either way - if there is no evidence to prove that the kids provoked the dog first there is also no evidence that the dog attacked first.

 

What IS evident (unless the boys or a witness claim the dog was outside the house yard, which doesn't seem to be the case) is that the boys were trespassing and were armed.

 

So if there is no evidence one way or the other, it is presumably just as possible that the boys committed criminal animal cruelty as that the dog behaved dangerously but neither could be proven. It therefore seems unfair that a definitive decision to declare the dog dangerous was made - and I mean legally unfair on the owner because obviously dogs don't have the rights humans do. 

 

ETA I am however strongly against naming and shaming children on social media when the information was not made public though the legal process, if that is what has happened

One of the boys was named on a news website, not just social media. 

The consequences of the incident undeniably impacted the dog (although it's impossible to say to what extent, given the owner was not forthcoming with any real evidence) but we can't forget that at least one child will now carry the notoriety of the incident for the rest of his life. A quick Google search will turn up his name in relation to the incident; alleging, without any evidence, that he is an animal abuser. Good luck getting a job, finding a partner or living a normal, quiet life with that hanging over your head. 

Given people are apparently so quick to believe allegations without seeing evidence, how many people do you think will give him the benefit of the doubt and be willing to hear his side before forming judgements about what sort of person he is? Also worth remembering that Tasmania is a small place and things are not quickly forgotten.

His entire future will be seriously impacted by this, but for some reason, people have no sympathy for a child who made a terrible mistake. Who here, as a child, didn't do something they shouldn't have? Feel free to cast the first stone if you can honestly say that you never made a bad decision as a child.

 

As an aside, I do not believe that any life is sacrosanct or worth more than another. I just find it sad and somewhat disturbing that so many people seem incapable of understanding that allegations are not the same as fact and that trespassers or not, a dog that will attack somebody badly enough to require airlifting to a hospital in another state, is probably not a safe dog. 

[Rascalmyshadow]

I think it is very wrong this child's name has been publicly released but carrying around weapons is a clear indicator that their intentions weren't good and they were old enough to know right from wrong.

If they were trespassing in a secure yard then they should be punished and the owner should not have been found liable no matter what the dog did, completely different if the dog was out in a public place.

 

I grew up with two GSD's they were wonderful well trained dogs, however the female would have done the same thing if someone broke into her property or threatened her people but I guess back then people/kids were taught to be responsible for their actions.

 

If it were one of my kids they would be punished severely and made to face the dogs owner.

[DogsAndTheMob]

I think the only thing we can be certain of is that dogs and children can behave unpredictably. i detest the concept of allowing children to carry "hunting equipment" (AKA weapons) and those children should not have been unsupervised. But it happens, and we can't know how our dogs will react when things go wrong. This thread has made me think about how I manage my animals to keep them safe from people, and foolish or even malevolent people safe from them.

[Scrappi&Monty]

Yeah, as Rascalmyshadow said, the boys were old enough to know exactly what they were doing, and that it was a very wrong thing to do. By that age you definitely know that breaking into a property is wrong, and you know that carrying knives and arrows is dangerous and illegal, or at least not something you should do.

I doubt they would have known that committing a crime would give them a criminal record for the rest of their lives, and what the consequences for that would be. 

It's very sad that that boy was mauled so badly, that would be extremely painful and not nice the kid had to end up being airlifted to hospital. 

But yet again, what does it take for them to learn a lesson? He shouldn't have climbed two fences into a property that isn't his, with weapons, into a yard with a dog. 

He should've known by that age that you don't mess with strange dogs, and you definitely don't go into their yards.

I would be extremely upset if the situation was the kid went to fetch a ball that went over a fence by accident and then got attacked, that would be devestating. But obviously they weren't thinking much, they deliberately did something extremely dangerous and stupid, what did they think was going to happen?

Unless the boys say what happened, we won't know. 

 

I agree though, the kids definitely shouldn't have been named on the news, that was very wrong, the kid will probably suffer even more due to that. Naming the kid on social media/news is dangerous on the kid's behalf, and they don't deserve that. As someone mentioned above, you never know about the crazy adults on FB that may go to the boy's school or threaten to hurt him or something awful. That is just sick.

[DogsAndTheMob]

Regrettably, there are people who see nothing wrong in giving bows, arrows and knives to children. Of course, they think (or at least say) that their children will only use them to hunt feral animals, thus protecting the environment and native species.

9 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

I would be extremely upset if the situation was the kid went to fetch a ball that went over a fence by accident and then got attacked, that would be devestating.

It is possible that the children went in there to retrieve a stray arrow. That's still stupid and very wrong, of course - not to mention the extreme carelessness that it would imply!

[Scrappi&Monty]

Why oh why do people think it's ok to let kids kill things? Especially unsupervised...  I know that some people who hunt teach their kids to but at least they're supervised. 

I still never would. 

Don't think it's terribly bright to instill killing things into your child's idea of having fun... 

 

When I was a kid I used to get cross on the other kids for ripping bark off trees & killing the trees haha. 

[DogsAndTheMob]

30 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

Why oh why do people think it's ok to let kids kill things? Especially unsupervised...  I know that some people who hunt teach their kids to but at least they're supervised. 

I still never would. 

 

Agreed

[asal]

17 hours ago, karen15 said:

what if they entered the property to burgle, the dog came at them, attacked and they stabbed it in defence to stop it attacking. Only those horrible kids know what happened.

 

An anecdotal story. I was dog sitting for a friend once. A nova scotia duck tolling retriever. I knew the dog from when he was a puppy, saw him pretty much every weekend and we were buddies. I arrived to feed horses and dog. Dog was on verandah. I thought he might like a pat, so I started to cross the driveway. BIG mistake. We met half way across and stopped in a stalemate when he started growling, hackles up. I mistakenly took a step backwards. Realising what I'd done and not wanting to spend days trapped in the feed shed with no mobile reception, I squared myself up and ordered him back to his bed. Thank god that worked. After that we had an accord. I did my duties but did not approach him. He left me alone.

 

When his people got home, we were buds again.

 

So it is entirely possible the dog above took exception at strangers in it's yard.

 

If it were my dog I'd be out for blood as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I'd certainly be persuing trespass charges if they did indeed cross locked gates.

 

Rural pug, from what was posted above, the defence of provocation / self defence by the dog already exists. In this case the issue would be knowing what actually happened. CCTV would have been their only supporting evidence for the dog defending itself. If a burgler breaks into your property, trips over a hose and hurts themselves, they can sue you. Given that, the dog stood no chance unless the little s*its admitted to hurting it until it defended itself........

Been in that situation too. thank goodness so many dogs know "go home" and or "go to bed" and obey Accordingly. when I was a kid few dogs were ever behind fences and many regarded the footpath as their humans property. so it was often a case of freeze, tell him to go home and then cross the road to proceed rather than walk on 'their' piece of footpath or risk being seen as trespassing. the kids who knew this never were bitten, well my brothers and I werent.

[Maddy]

23 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

Why oh why do people think it's ok to let kids kill things? Especially unsupervised...  I know that some people who hunt teach their kids to but at least they're supervised. 

I still never would. 

Don't think it's terribly bright to instill killing things into your child's idea of having fun... 

 

When I was a kid I used to get cross on the other kids for ripping bark off trees & killing the trees haha. 

Who said they were even doing that? Christ, the assumptions are irritating.

For all we know, the "weapons" may have been been toys. Has anyone here ever picked up an actual hunting bow? They're not easy to use, they're heavy, they're expensive to buy and arrows (unless you have grabbing arrows) are going to get lost very quickly (and are also expensive to replace). As for the knife, again, people are ASSUMING it's some big hunting knife that they were out stabbing things with. Because what reasonable parent wouldn't let their kids out to play with a hunting bow and a bowie knife? 

 

As for your attitudes to hunting, cool story bro. Some people shoot to eat and (heavens forbid) teach their children the safe and correct way to do it. Go back to sipping your ethically sourced, organic latte and stop making assumptions.

[Scrappi&Monty]

2 hours ago, Maddy said:

Who said they were even doing that? Christ, the assumptions are irritating.

For all we know, the "weapons" may have been been toys. Has anyone here ever picked up an actual hunting bow? They're not easy to use, they're heavy, they're expensive to buy and arrows (unless you have grabbing arrows) are going to get lost very quickly (and are also expensive to replace). As for the knife, again, people are ASSUMING it's some big hunting knife that they were out stabbing things with. Because what reasonable parent wouldn't let their kids out to play with a hunting bow and a bowie knife? 

 

As for your attitudes to hunting, cool story bro. Some people shoot to eat and (heavens forbid) teach their children the safe and correct way to do it. Go back to sipping your ethically sourced, organic latte and stop making assumptions.

I was replying to dogsandthemob's comment. They said the kids could've been out hunting feral animals, and that people do allow their children to do that.

I wasn't saying "I think these kids definitely had HUNTING knives and were DELIBERATELY killing things" 

That may or may not have been the case. Regardless if they were real weapons, or toy arrows & a butter knife... they were still armed... and still used it to stab a dog (whether it was before or after the dog attacked)  

 

I was simply saying that in my opinion, children (in general) shouldn't be 

a) Allowed to go hunt like that unsupervised.

b) Have access to weapons w/out rules. 

 

Obviously the kids either weren't taught rules, or were and then broke them. 

An 11yo should know not to break into someone else's property or go near strange unattended dogs. 

It wasn't as though they accidentally walked onto an unfenced yard, or that they were retrieving a ball from over the fence.

 

I respect the opinions of responsible hunters, the animals they hunt usually have a much better life than animals raised on a factory farm, as long as people are hunting enough meat to keep themselves fed and not over hunting or hunting endangered animals I think that's fine  

And what I was meaning before was that people who do hunt responsibly would teach their kids how to do it properly and safely, and have rules.

Responsible people would teach the kids not to hunt unsupervised, not to play with the weapons, how to do it safely/humanely/properly, and wouldn't just let them go off on their own messing about on other people's properties with the weapons.

And no, I've never actually had an ethically sourced organic latte in my life. 

[Loving my Oldies]

2 hours ago, Maddy said:

As for your attitudes to hunting, cool story bro. Some people shoot to eat and (heavens forbid) teach their children the safe and correct way to do it. Go back to sipping your ethically sourced, organic latte and stop making assumptions.

Totally unnecessary       

[PossumCorner]

Yeeees - that was a bit rough Maddy.  S&M's post was generalising, or that's how I read it: certainly it did not point at the children in particular.

[Scrappi&Monty]

19 minutes ago, PossumCorner said:

Yeeees - that was a bit rough Maddy.  S&M's post was generalising, or that's how I read it: certainly it did not point at the children in particular.

Yes it wasn't aimed at those particular kids. Just general opinion. 

[Comet]

The whole thing is awful. For the child, parents and owner of the dog alike. I have no opinion as my experience with children is somewhat equivalent to my experience with dogs.... Up until now, I've only ever had anything to do with easy going ones ;) 

 

Maddy, I was with prepared to go on the ride with you until this. Wow! 

 

8 hours ago, Maddy said:

As for your attitudes to hunting, cool story bro. Some people shoot to eat and (heavens forbid) teach their children the safe and correct way to do it. Go back to sipping your ethically sourced, organic latte and stop making assumptions.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Comet

[Odin-Genie]

10 hours ago, Comet said:

As for your attitudes to hunting, cool story bro. Some people shoot to eat and (heavens forbid) teach their children the safe and correct way to do it. Go back to sipping your ethically sourced, organic latte and stop making assumptions.

Maddy, why are you so angry? Do you personally know the family of these children?

Evetyone here is having a reasonable discussion, main point being that we don't know who attacked who first. But Kodi was presumed guilty and declared dangerous.

[Noel Peterson]

It's assumed by some that these boys deliberately took knives etc. onto the property to attack the dog.  In one such assertion it correctly states that there were NO witnesses yet in the same post as per previous it is claimed the boys went onto the property to attack the dog.  No witnesses and I'm damned sure the boys are not going to "spill the beans" on exactly what happened and in what sequence.   So much speculation by so many.  It's a shame that it happened and it's a shame that the dog is dead and indeed it could be speculated that his death was simply not required.  That he was declared dangerous and had to be confined to a pen when the owners were not about is no reason for his death.  Many dogs spend the days in confinement pens whilst owners are not home.  It stops them wandering and getting into trouble and hopefully would prevent the likes of Kodi's problem too.
There's a hell of a lot about this story that has not been brought to light, many people who were involved have been let down badly and of course the social media bandwagon has done a fair old beat up on the matter.   We'll most likely never know the full true story involved with this unfortunate dog which is the real shame.  There are marches etc. in order to change the dog laws that I strongly suspect will fail for many legal reasons.   This messy situation is indeed a sad story and it should be a reminder to all of us to be aware of what our dogs are doing and where they are doing it.   Not home all day don't leave your dog loose as you'll leave it wide open to such a situation.  Pen the dog or leave it inside where it's safe.  Dogs, unfortunately, under the laws have no real rights at all and we are not likely to see that change.

[Kirislin]

This is the first I've heard of it.  I dont know the boys names so they're safe from me.  But you dont need a big knife to stab with.  A little pointed veggie knife will do the job. The only ones who know what happened are the kids.  Should be easy enough for them to clear their names.   How come they dont tell?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Kirislin

[Maddy]

On 6/19/2017 at 7:51 AM, Odin-Genie said:

Maddy, why are you so angry? Do you personally know the family of these children?

Evetyone here is having a reasonable discussion, main point being that we don't know who attacked who first. But Kodi was presumed guilty and declared dangerous.

I was angry because people were making some really disgusting assumptions and those assumptions and claims MATTER. If apparently 99.9% of people can't be bothered to fact check, I'm guessing future employers would probably be the same- read some person's claim on an internet forum ("Oh, I heard they stabbed the dog with a little paring knife they stole from the kitchen?") and assume it is fact. As I've already mentioned, several times above, those children's' lives are effectively over before they even began. So, you know, you guys already get that satisfaction. Enjoy your schadenfreude.

These CHILDREN (I feel like I have to shout that because people seem to forget that they are children) have not only been presumed guilty but also assumed to be violent little monsters who deserve every ounce of vitriol and violence that comes their way from this, on the basis of absolutely no evidence, just the owner's opinion.

Just in case anyone missed that.. no witnesses, no actual evidence of guilt or innocence on EITHER side. 

As for..

Quote

How come they dont tell?

In light of the revolting death threats leveled against their children, I'm guessing the parents aren't keen to risk the wrath of the keyboard warriors by drawing attention to themselves? And frankly, having been on the receiving end of some internet crazies (Hi, AR whackjobs who threatened my kids ) I can absolutely understand the fear. Sure, they might just be empty threats but given "Kodie's army" numbers THOUSANDS of people and statistically speaking, at least a few of them are probably severely unhinged, it's a risk that no parent could take.

To be honest, if I were the parent of one of those kids,I'd be packing up and moving to somewhere very far away. Somewhere my neighbours couldn't accidentally confirm my child's location to a crazy person intent on getting "justice for Kodi".

 

I get that this is a dog forum and many people here sit firmly in the "I like dogs more than people" camp but.. christ, CHILDREN. If you enjoy seeing children ripped to pieces by the court of social media, that's cool. Just don't pretend that it comes from anywhere other than an incredibly cruel, mean-spirited place. It might have been disguised as a thread about Tasmania's dangerous dog legislation but when started like this.. 

Quote

Kodi was a German Shepherd who was viciously stabbed in his own backyard by two boys. In self defence he bit one of the 11 year old boys who had to be airlifted for treatment.

These boys deliberately took knives and arrows and climbed over double fences to attack Kodi. But Kodi was declared dangerous and, confined to his cage, he sunk into deep depression and had to be euthanized last week.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshit. This thread was just another gathering of the same old.

As for people saying I'm mean.. possibly, but at least I'm not mean enough to enjoy (or actively encourage) the ruination of two children's lives. So yeah, I'll sleep just fine tonight.

 

Edited to add.. to answer Odin's question, no. I do not not the families concerned. I don't have to personally know someone to be a decent person and not spread rumours about them on social media. Weird, I know.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Maddy

[Tempus Fugit]

Quote

 

Because animals like Kodi can't tell their side of the story we need organisations such as the Animal Defenders Office who can provide legal expertise.

[casowner]

I'm stuck on why there are so few damnations on this purebred dog forum about this dog being back yard bred after the incident, the situation is tragic but profiteering isn't something that sits well for me