ricey Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hi all, Keisha ( my new foster Amstaff from Staffy and Bully Breed Rescue here in Perth WA) is on a daily 40mg dose of Lovan (Prozac/fluoxetine) for anxiety. She gets very anxious around other dogs and I am not sure whether it is dog aggression or fear, as I'm not about to let her off lead to find which it is LOL. When I say she is anxious, it is a bit of an understatement; she is majorly distressed; whining, salivating, commissures pulled right back and up, shaking her head, pulling both towards and away alternately from the dog she has seen. Hackles are up, tail is up and flicking side to side. Around people she is the most relaxed and calm of dogs, and is only just a little bit pushy for human attention . Keisha is great with kids and quite submissive with them. Apparently Lovan is considered to be very appropriate for treating anxiety in dogs and the 40mg daily dose is about right for her size (she is 33kg, but probably should be 35kg and I am working on that). My question is this to anyone who has experience with Lovan for dogs; does it have to be dispersed in water as it says on the medicine packet? I have tried to get Keisha to take it this way by dissolving the 2 tablets in a small amount of water and pouring the water (maybe 30ml or so) onto some of her favourite food, but she won't touch it. After this had happened a few times, I dipped my little finger in the solution and tasted it! Yecccch! It tasted like a cross between licorice, aniseed and paint thinners! Bloody awful and I hope I never taste anything like that ever again. I am not surprised that Keisha won't touch it. So, is it OK to just hide the two tablets in a chunk of Prota roll and give it to Keisha this way? She swallows the chunk of Prota so quickly that she never gets a chance to taste the Lovan. Cheers, and thanks in advance for any advice, ricey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 You should ask the prescribing vet before changing anything but I don't think it would matter. I take a dispersable medication that can alternatively be chewed or swallowed whole. My dog's Prozac is compounded into a capsule as he's tiny but I know others who buy it in regular tablet form. Cheap as chips when purchased from a discount chemist (veterinary script required of course). I find it weird that it would be dispensed in a dispersable form to a dog. Were you given a behaviour modification plan to go along with the medication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I'd check just to be safe but no, last time I used Lovan on a dog it was just a tablet in cheese. Easy. So weird that you were given a dispersible one grossss. Not sure who makes up 'flavours' of medication. As a note, Lovan made my anxious dog quite growly and strange (and had negligible effect on his anxiety) so we weaned him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricey Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Hi Papillon Kisses and Powerlegs, Thanks for your replies. No, I wasn't given a behaviour modification plan when I fostered Keisha; I have had a phone consult with a respected animal behaviourist and I will be taking Keisha to her for an assessment and recommendations shortly. Hopefully I will then be able to help Keisha, but she is an 8 year old dog and it seems that these behaviours have been reinforced for a long time. I am having to walk Keisha at times when she is unlikely to see another dog (midday Monday to Friday, and at night on the weekends). So far this has been successful in not triggering these behaviours, but sooner or later we will encounter another dog....... I will continue putting the Lovan tabs in a chunk of Prota roll. According to the rescue group, Keisha's previous foster took her off the Lovan and Keisha's behaviour got a lot worse. I don't know if a proper weaning off over time was done, or whether she was just taken off the Lovan abruptly. If Keisha was just taken off the Lovan abruptly, I am not surprised that her behaviours got a lot worse. Humans have to taper off gradually from SSRI meds, and dogs have to as well. Cheers, ricey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Has the dogs thyroid levels been checked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Agree, check with the prescribing vet (and I'd suggest talking directly if you haven't - I'm sure the rescue group you are working with is reputable but the group I fostered for illegally gave me Lovan for the dog I was fostering, I was told it was prescribed by a vet but that turned out not be true and the person who provided it to me did not have proper knowledge of dosages, side effects etc, which I found out after the fact and after the dog had displayed significantly increased aggression and increasingly unsettled behaviour once the Lovan kicked in). From what I've found out since it seems vets often recommend the dog not be taken out in public for the first 4 weeks of treatment ( @Papillon KissesKisses is that what you were told with Malcolm?)until they have properly adjusted to the meds. And a behaviour modification plan in conjunction is essential so excellent that you are consulting with a behaviourist Re the giving the tablets whole, that's how I did it and it was still effective, I saw changes within the first week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I'd check just to be safe but no, last time I used Lovan on a dog it was just a tablet in cheese. Easy. So weird that you were given a dispersible one grossss. Not sure who makes up 'flavours' of medication. As a note, Lovan made my anxious dog quite growly and strange (and had negligible effect on his anxiety) so we weaned him off. It's dispersable coz it's actually a human drug - not that I'd want it dispersed, agree gross! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricey Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Has the dogs thyroid levels been checked Hi showdog, As far as I know (which isn't very far at all ) Keisha's bloods have not been done. I am taking responsibility for Keisha's care to take a little pressure off the over-worked rescue group people, and I am very happy to get done whatever vet investigations are necessary for Keisha. You query her thyroid levels; would high or low thyroxine levels affect her behaviour in this way? I am clutching at straws here, but anything that could help Keisha's behaviours I will try. Keisha really is a lovely dog in so many ways and I would love to see her calm around other dogs. Cheers, ricey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 It comes in non dispensable form too, next time ask for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 It comes in non dispensable form too, next time ask for that. That's what we got. I had no idea they did flavoured ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 (edited) Not flavoured, just dissolvable in water. I imagine it tastes like Aspro Clear, which no dog would drink!! Edited May 27, 2017 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Not flavoured, just dissolvable in water. I imagine it tastes like Aspro Clear, which no dog would drink!! Sorry. I was just going by the first post mentioning liquorice and I have a dispersible/chewable 'flavoured' that smells like lollies and tastes like nasty. Out of curiosity google tells me peppermint and aniseed flavouring. LOL still not exactly pet friendly. Anyway, off topic. How is she going Ricey? I can't help with the thyroid advice. I've never had one come back with anything other than normal but I'm sure some Dolers were sending samples to america? Edited May 28, 2017 by Powerlegs adding extras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Hey Ricey, please take Keisha to the vet when you can. - You need to maintain close contact initially in case the medication needs adjusting. Incidentally they often start out at a reduced dose to avoid/lessen side effects. - She needs a full workup including bloods to check for physical/physiological illness that may cause or contribute to behaviour issues and to get a baseline on organ function (it can also affect choice of med). Then she'll need follow up bloods, usually done one-month in followed by 6-monthly to monitor any changes. - As mentioned they should ideally provide a behaviour modification plan that a trainer can help you implement. - There may be other things too, for example checking that the dose is correct... I am not a vet. From what I've found out since it seems vets often recommend the dog not be taken out in public for the first 4 weeks of treatment ( @Papillon KissesKisses is that what you were told with Malcolm?)until they have properly adjusted to the meds. Yes that's what our vet behaviourist told us to do. It wasn't just not going out in public though but also no guests and the avoidance of (other) anxiety triggers wherever practicable. For example as Malcolm has noise phobia we didn't mow or use the whipper snipper. Some vets might do things differently (e.g. a different time period), but everyone I know has been advised to initially make their dog's world very small. Dogs can initially feel sick (wobbly, nauseous) or have adverse reactions, and it also enables you/vet to judge how they are responding (e.g. do they have a very sick tummy due to the med or because you stressed them too much the day before). It's also to help cortisol levels trend back to baseline: http://theiscp.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Linda-Cooper-Thesis-2a.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Anyway, off topic. How is she going Ricey? I can't help with the thyroid advice. I've never had one come back with anything other than normal but I'm sure some Dolers were sending samples to america? I don't know what Jean Dodds does but they can and do test for thyroid issues here. Mal did not need to have anything sent overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Re dosage, I will also mention that Molly had a significant response at 20mgs, her weight was 30kgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Hi showdog, As far as I know (which isn't very far at all ) Keisha's bloods have not been done. I am taking responsibility for Keisha's care to take a little pressure off the over-worked rescue group people, and I am very happy to get done whatever vet investigations are necessary for Keisha. You query her thyroid levels; would high or low thyroxine levels affect her behaviour in this way? I am clutching at straws here, but anything that could help Keisha's behaviours I will try. Keisha really is a lovely dog in so many ways and I would love to see her calm around other dogs. Cheers, ricey Thyroid can create behaviour/aggression issues ,I would get it sent to the US not done in Australia. The dog may not have any issues but have seen some aggressive dogs in the past have there thyroid checked and there where issues and a dramatic change in the dog once on meds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy2446 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Hello, I am new here and just wanted to ask a few questions in regards to Lovan. I have read the thread but still need some doggy advice or perhaps just some encouragement. My little mini foxy Snoopy who is 5 is scared of thunder storms and loud noises. He has a thunder shirt but still seems to stress when we have a storm. I took him to the vet who prescribed him Lovan - half a tab (10mg) once a day. He has been on it for just over a week now. My gorgeous little dog who used to have so much personality, energy and extremely vivacious and happy has turned into a quiet, unenergetic, dull dog who has lost his spark, doesn't really want to play with ball which he just loved doing, is lacking in appetite. Everyone who knows Snoopy has asked what is wrong with him because he is a different dog - he isn't my dog anymore which makes me really sad. I know that dogs are supposed to be on Lovan for a month to take full effect but I just want to know if these side effects will continue whilst he is on this drug or once the drug has totally kicked in will my dog's personality come back. I love my dog more than life itself but not sure what I hate to see most - stressing in thunderstorms or his now changed personality. Any advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Talk to your vet about these things. If Snoopy ONLY exhibits severe anxiety at loud noises and thunderstorms, I would be asking my vet for a medication that you use as soon as the first symptoms appear and only then, not one that is given daily and builds up in his body. The amount of Lovan he is being given sounds like it should be for a dog that is generally neurotic/anxious and not one that is simply over-reactive to certain stimuli. I admit that a week is not very long, but if the changes are so severe that you are concerned, then I would be going back to the vet. If you are not happy with the response, tell the vet up front that you will be seeking a second opinion, and do so. You can always ask here to see if there are any recommendations for vet behaviourists in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy2446 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Thank you RuralPug. I initially went to the vet for something to give him for thunderstorms. Didn't want a dog on daily drugs. I have to go back in 3 weeks for an update. Snoopy is a little better today - more alert but I am still concerned. I am thinking of weaning him off the pills but will speak with the vet first. thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) It did not happen to my dog, but it’s common for there to be some initial side effects, just like humans when first starting anti-depressants. They may feel sleepy, out of sorts, lose their appetite. Speak to your vet if you are concerned. Where you live may be a factor too. If you’re somewhere where there are a lot storms then it would be understandable that a dog may need daily medication. Edited November 8, 2017 by Papillon Kisses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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