An introduction and some advice please

[Comet]

Hi everyone

 

Long time reader, first time poster. I’ll do my very best to spare you war and peace but I apologise in advance if this gets long.

 

I have a lovely little 2yr old mini foxie, Comet, that I picked up early October of last year, running on the highway. Long story short – Broken leg/found owner who didn’t want him back/evidence that he may have been mistreated/ was also used for breeding.

 

He came home with me and spent 11 weeks crated, with his leg in a cast before being given the all clear. He coped so well in the crate and endured splint changes and vet visits every three days without complaint. He was given the ok at 11 weeks and I had him de-sexed a couple of days before Christmas.

 

I knew I was dealing with a few issues from the get go as he would flatten to the ground and wet himself when he was touched, he hoards food and toys, is very clingy to me and he showed some dog aggression during a few of our vet visits. I started NILIF straight away and got on to a wonderful dog trainer as soon as he was ready to start with some broader training. She has been wonderful throughout the whole process so far and I’m very grateful for her guidance.

 

As we’ve gone on, he’s started to show a few more of his little (well big) quirks. I was totally expecting his true personality to really come through as he relaxed but I’m quite surprised by what I got. I’m no stranger to dogs and have had kelpies, border collies and a JRT in the past. All were puppies when I got them though and relatively easy to train because they were clean little slates. I also have a background in horses but this little guy is challenging everything I thought I knew about animal behaviour. It’s all gone out the window!!

 

He’s VERY reactive to and dog aggressive out and about and at home. He can NOT cope with seeing another dog from the window of the house – We are working on this with distraction techniques at home. Out and about, he can now go to dog school with the same trainer, however, we work on the very outer edges of the class and his critical distance is still quite long. He’s started spending time with my partner’s dog on lead and we can walk together without problems. They have played briefly and quite well but the little guy’s impulse control is zero and as soon as the energy level gets a bit high, he loses it. We are sticking to just walking for now as I don’t want him to practice any of this stuff.

 

He would patrol the house and garden constantly if allowed to. Back and forth, hoarding toys and food and other objects. I’ve started allowing him toys now only when we are playing and stopped allowing him to bury things in the garden. He’s also learning to park on a mat and I will give him time out in the crate if he works up too much.

 

He’s friendly towards people out and about and we do quite a bit of public place training but I’m still at the stage of paying him constantly. This is fine and I expect to for a while longer. He’s improving as long as the situation stays low energy. I’ve not tested (nor do I want to) how he might react if he felt cornered or intimidated by a stranger out and about.

 

He’s human aggressive at home. He’s bitten my partner a number of times (they are ok now as he views him as one of his people - so far they only include me, my partner, the trainer and my mum). More worrying was he bit (and seriously) my landlady recently when she came through the back gate, unannounced. The gates are now padlocked when we are at home so no one can get in without my knowing  first and he is in a secure, locked run during the day when I am at work. He is also in his crate when people he doesn’t know are in the house now. I understand that it is my responsibility to manage this and make sure he’s not put in a position to bite again.

 

I’ve started him on a herbal supplement (CTFD) in an effort to take the edge off. So far, I’m not seeing a huge difference.

 

He’s walked daily and I’m trying to give him as much mental stimulation as possible as well. I’ve also just got a treadmill to try and give him some faster exercise as I can’t let him off the lead anywhere. He’s desperate to run, and fast!!

 

I’m trying really hard for this little guy but my heart breaks for him at times. There is no off switch on this poor little dog. I swear he sleeps with one eye open, waiting for the next thing to spring into action over. I would also love to include him in my life more. I run and bushwalk a lot but taking him anywhere is so complicated and stressful. I feel like I’m killing the enjoyment for this little dude because everything is so tightly structured. I’ve tried relaxing the boundaries slightly but given an inch, he takes a mile, so I wind it back in again. I feel awful but he’s wearing me out and I’m starting to feel resentful.

 

I’m hoping that some of you might have some tips or strategies for us? I’m not precious so if I need to drink a cup of concrete, I’m ok with hearing that Happy to answer any questions that might help you know a bit more about us too.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PS – I couldn’t post without including a picture of the mini monster

Edited May 16, 2017 by Comet
Spelling

[Tassie]

Poor little guy .. he's lucky to have found a kind hearted human who is prepared to do so much to help him.

 

Other more knowledgeable people will be along, hopefully, but when you said about having no off switch, I wonder if it would be worth trying something like Karen Overall's Relaxation protocol .. if you just put that into your search engine, you will get lots of hits.

[Little Gifts]

There are people on here with skill in this area who will respond but I have a couple of little bits of advice for you based on my own experiences with a difficult dog and using behaviourists.

 

1. Over time you may need to try a different behaviourist. I've used three and they have all been invaluable and helped us through different issues. No one person may have all the answers. Also if your dog is like ours his behaviours will keep changing over time and your strategies will need to change too.

2. Regardless of the activities you would like to do with him, if your dog cannot be exercised outside of your property for various reasons then you need to find ways to be physically active at home. Our girl stress poos and vomits when she leaves the property so we simply stopped putting her through that as she wasn't enjoying it. What's the point in making her do something that causes her stress when there are other ways to 'exercise' through play or games in the backyard?

3. Tire his mind out too. Our girl is always alert too and needs her brain challenged as much as her body. She now gets all her meals through puzzles. Some I bought second hand and others I've made so it hasn't cost me a lot of money. It takes maybe 5 more minutes at meal times but it has made a huge difference in our house. Our next step is to try nosework at home with a view to hopefully doing it outside the house if she can become focussed enough to not be stressed about not being at home.

4. Routine is good. Some dogs need routine to feel safe. Your boy could be one of them (my girl is).

5. Your boy might need a job. All of ours have jobs that match their natural tendencies and we support them in doing it. Don't give them a job they are not capable of doing or you are setting them up for failure. And by jobs I mean he might be good at alerting you to things going on outside your house (as opposed to guarding which I don't think is a good job for an anxious dog but alerting can be rewarding for a naturally vigilant dog). One of mine is really nosy and always has her nose in something so her job is to let me know if we have something unusual going on around our house (mice for instance). She gets a lot out of doing something she is naturally good at for her pack.

6. Always remain vigilant and de-escalate as soon as you see anything of concern happening for your boy. Don't let him grandstand for your attention. You have to stay one step ahead of them and not get lax and let things go back the way they were. It's baby steps forward at all times.

 

[Papillon Kisses]

Hi Comet,

 

What a lucky little man Comet is to have you in his corner. It's clear that you love him very much and have done a lot to try to help him. It does sound though like he's suffering with a lot of anxiety day to day and is hypervigilent and cannot relax even at home. So you are right to ask for help.

 

I sincerely think it's time to see a Veterinary Behaviourist. In all honesty it sounds like Comet would benefit from a behaviour modification plan and prescription medication to help him think, learn and relax. In mild cases supplements like the ones you've been giving might possibly take the edge off, but in more serious cases of anxiety or aggression they're barely going to touch the sides. Be sure to inform vets about any supplements you are giving as they may be bad to mix with other medications if prescribed.

 

Comet will also need a physical, bloods and possibly urinalysis to check for other illnesses that may have an impact on his behaviour.

 

Some VBs in ACT:

Dr Helen Purdam BVSc (Hons) MANZCVS (Veterinary Behaviour)

www.hallvet.com.au
 

Dr Isabelle Resch BVSc MANZCVS (Veterinary Behaviour)
www.innersouthvets.com.au

 

Dr Michael Hayward is a GP vet with an interest in behaviour medicine if seeing a VB is out of financial reach, and/or if Comet is particularly anxious at the vet and needs extra special handling.

 

While there's never any guarantees or quick fixes and some degree of management will always be required, I want you to know that with treatment these things can get better. I have seen it in my own dog who has Generalised Anxiety Disorder and OCD. And you'll find that your bond with Comet improves dramatically as it does.

 

I'll come back and link to some posters and articles that may help you with your special little man.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[Scottsmum]

Some good advice up above.

 

Just wanted to add that he's lucky to have found you. :heart:

 

Another possibility (not a VB) could be to call and have a chat to the team at K9 Pro on the outskirts of Sydney - not an all too unrealistic drive if you blat up the M7 and skirt around Sydney over to the general Richmond area. I don't have personal experience with Steve and his team but from what I've seen they do good work. 

 

Good luck with him!

[Comet]

Thanks for the replies.

 

He's such a beautiful little dog and quite a happy little thing when he's comfortable. If I were the only thing in his world and we never left the house, that would be his bliss. He desperately wants to do the right thing - He's just not sure what that is and my level of knowledge is not enough and I'm missing things, I know that.

 

Apologies if I don't address all of your comments, I have read them and appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

I've looked at the relaxation protocol but he can't manage it. An observation made the other day is totally true of this dog 'you can see the lightning bolts coming out of the bottom of his feet'.. I'll keep going though

 

Games and noseworks sound just like his thing so I will investigate those further. I totally understand what you mean about giving him a job to do and a good routine. He's certainly better when the rules are strictly enforced, even if I feel horrible.

 

He really enjoys going out and absolutely loves walking and exploring new places. I think some of the issues we have with this stuff are a result of me. I find walking him extremely stressful as I've found people don't give us any space and I often have to yell at owners of other, off lead dogs. Usually I can catch it and walk in the opposite direction but sometimes I just can't. In these cases I've found picking him up the best thing for avoiding a confrontation but I worry that just reinforces his aggression. Honestly, walking him frightens me. A lot. I also tried the yellow coat/lead/harness but no one knew what it meant....

 

Thank you PK. The trainer mentioned the possibility of a VB visit during her last session so I will follow that up as well. It must be horrible for him to be experiencing that level of stress all the time. Your post prompted a thought for me as well -- I live rurally and while he is in a secure run, he can see everything that is going on around him, all of the time. I'm sure that he spends some of his day barking at the horses and various other creatures that would be likely to be out and about (he HATES kangaroos!). I wonder if I would be better leaving him inside during the day? Do people do this and how do you go with toileting?

 

Apologies for all the questions.

[Comet]

 

Another possibility (not a VB) could be to call and have a chat to the team at K9 Pro on the outskirts of Sydney - not an all too unrealistic drive if you blat up the M7 and skirt around Sydney over to the general Richmond area. I don't have personal experience with Steve and his team but from what I've seen they do good work. 

Good idea! I'm not opposed to driving up the highway at all if he needs that (as long as I don't find any more strays along the way :p)

[Scottsmum]

Nose work is a great idea too - missed that one when I read through the post earlier.  Most really well run NW classes ensure dogs have zero interaction with each other so they should be a nice safe environment for him. Instructors can stay clear-ish too if needs be.

[Loving my Oldies]

 

................... and prescription medication to help him think, learn and relax. In mild cases supplements like the ones you've been giving might possibly take the edge off, but in more serious cases of anxiety or aggression they're barely going to touch the sides. Be sure to inform vets about any supplements you are giving as they may be bad to mix with other medications if prescribed.

I agree with this.  We can be a bit too frightened of powerful drugs, but if they do the trick, that’s all that matters.  Comet’s anxieties do seem extreme and if a little pill helps him get through the day with a lot less anxiety, why not.  

 

Good luck.  

[Bushriver]

Sounds like you are doing a terrific job and have already gotten some great advice. The only thing I might add, is that you need to let go of feeling sorry for him. It will only reinforce his tension. Although he had an awful start in life he won't be able to move on if his humans don't. Forget about his past and just keep working with what you have now. 

[Comet]

Thanks everyone. Much appreciated. I have some homework to do today

 

Bushriver, I hadn't considered that I might be doing that but you're very right. I used to say to students when I was coaching horse-riding 'train what they give on the day'. I'll keep that in check with Comet too. Cheers!

[melzawelza]

Comet you're clearly an absolutely wonderful dog owner and this boy is incredibly lucky to have you. Thank you for working so hard with him, physically and mentally. 

From what you're describing I think it's likely he's a good candidate for medication to go with your behaviour mod. I have huge issues with how many vet behaviourists are handing out medication like candy for simple training problems BUT there are absolutely dogs out there where it's necessary and from what you're describing of your guy I think it's likely he's one of them. Constant hypervigilance, anxiety, unable to settle even at home and despite all the work you've been doing to me indicates there may be something going on with his mind that needs some extra help. 

If he is in a total state of anxiety no matter how much work and training you do you'll only get so far as they just can't learn when they're in that state. If he's medicated and you continue your behaviour work it means those dogs can actually learn and many of them are able to be weaned off the medication (some aren't, and that's okay as well). A visit with a good Vet Behaviourist is probably the next step for you guys, as others have said. 

[_PL_]

Sorry if someone has mentioned this already.  Just a note but medication can put people off with names like 'Clomicalm' but most are not sedating as you would imagine valium is. To properly sedate a dog can sometimes remove inhibitions altogether so vets go for prozac versions of doggie meds.  And you'll get more effective results when combined with vet behaviourist guidance. If they don't work, wean them off and chalk it up to experience.

[Papillon Kisses]

Some links as promised:

 

Enrichment stuff:

AWLQLD

Food dispensing toys

Entertaining your dog

Sprinkles for Dogs

 

Dog body language:

Subtle Signs of Fear & Anxiety

Doggie Language Starring Boogie the Boston Terrier

Ladder of Aggression

 

Why see a VB:

Info from SABS

Why obediance training won't fix your panicking pet

 

Other:

AVA Polite Pets

Resource Guarding Prevention and Treatment

Welfare in Dog Training

Adaptil - may help but probably not by itself

Edited May 18, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[Comet]

Thank you everyone! I've established email communication with one of the VBs above and have the support of my trainer on whatever path I decide to take from here. I'll let you know how we get on. I'm ok with medication if he needs it and it will help him.

 

I've also emailed a local noseworks trainer (my trainer takes her dogs to this lady as well) so hopefully he can start diverting some of his energy into this soon as well. I've started some targeting with him this week too and he's really getting into that!

 

PK, thanks for all of that information -- Much to read and digest

 

So, in addition to the other animals that he can see from the run, I discovered last night that he has been being visited during the day by my landlady and her dogs in an effort to "make friends" through the mesh  I had to stop myself using some very bad language but I'm so disappointed and now a bit stuck with what to do with him during the day  He's happy inside, in his crate while I go out for short periods (I have left him for up to 3-4 hours previously) but I can't leave him like that all day.... even if I installed a dog door, he would dig out under the garden fence and be gone within minutes of my leaving. The dog run is outside of my small garden area, alongside one of the horse paddocks so he's effectively out in the open - This was the only area I was allowed to lay rubber matting down as a non dig-through surface to place the run on. I don't have the money to secure the house garden well enough. A house move is in my plan but probably not for another 12 months.

 

I've asked her to stop visiting but she still needs to move around the farm and refuses to leave her dogs at her house. I wonder if an additional screen set up might also help to block his vision of what's happening outside. Any thoughts??

[RuralPug]

 

...

 

So, in addition to the other animals that he can see from the run, I discovered last night that he has been being visited during the day by my landlady and her dogs in an effort to "make friends" through the mesh  I had to stop myself using some very bad language but I'm so disappointed and now a bit stuck with what to do with him during the day  He's happy inside, in his crate while I go out for short periods (I have left him for up to 3-4 hours previously) but I can't leave him like that all day.... even if I installed a dog door, he would dig out under the garden fence and be gone within minutes of my leaving. The dog run is outside of my small garden area, alongside one of the horse paddocks so he's effectively out in the open - This was the only area I was allowed to lay rubber matting down as a non dig-through surface to place the run on. I don't have the money to secure the house garden well enough. A house move is in my plan but probably not for another 12 months.

 

I've asked her to stop visiting but she still needs to move around the farm and refuses to leave her dogs at her house. I wonder if an additional screen set up might also help to block his vision of what's happening outside. Any thoughts??

Screening really depends on the size of the run. A small run might become no more than a large crate with extensive screening, then you have issues with boredom. As a compromise I would think about screening to just over the height of the dog when he is standing on his back legs so that he can still see things in the distance but cannot see things that are very close to the wire ... he will still see your landlady as she passes by but won't be able to "fence run" with her dogs. If the gate is at a narrow end of the run, I would  keep that entire end unscreened, both for safety reasons (never screen a gate to a run) and to give the dog one vista. It won't help with the landlady issue, she will probably come to that end to say "hello", sigh.

What might help is to add interactive toys to his run to keep his mind amused. A clam shell sandpit is an inexpensive way to provide a digging spot, a cotton rope tied firmly to one of the run supports makes an attractive tug toy and I'm sure that others can come up with more inexpensive suggestions to keep his mind active while he is alone in the pen.

[Comet]

Thanks RuralPug. That's very helpful

 

The run is 7m x 3m (with the door on the short end). It's got a 3/4 roof and I have laid artificial turf over the rubber. I've put shade cloth along one short end and 1/2 way along one of the long sides (he can see though this).

 

He's got his kennel and two clam shells - one full of water and the other full of sand. I also leave him with a pigs ear, a kong full of peanut butter, a 'giggle ball' full of treats and his favorite teddy. I'm also investigating the food puzzles but he's funny and doesn't really eat unless I'm there/feeding from my hand. He loves playing with toys though so I'll add more of those too.

 

I've been walking him of an evening but I might do a morning one as well so maybe he's more inclined to rest a little during the day.

[Little Gifts]

One of mine loves to destroy toys so one of the best gifts I got her was one of those mesh style treat dispensing balls (I'd have to check brand name). I stuff hers full of dead soft toys and fleece fabric strips and she spends ages pulling everything out through the holes. 

 

If you are crafty make yourself a couple of food puzzles cheaply and give it a try. My girl took several tries before she understood what was happening. She now gets quite excited to see what puzzle we will be using and I stay with her and offer encouragement and point out bits she has missed. I'm not sure how she would go if left unattended  - I think our one on one interaction is part of the fun for her. Could be the same for your boy. And she just gets her normal kibble in the puzzles - no treats. She eats like that most meals now. Perhaps you could also try hiding small toys in the puzzles for your boy? Maybe make a snuffle mat to hide things in as a starter?

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Wow Comets human, you are on the ball! Lucky Comet.

 

One of my dogs has general anxiety, MANY of the things you describe are exactly as my boy is, pre clomicalm. On clomicalm he is a normal dog.

 

I hope you can find sonething to help take the edge off for the little guy. He is one lucky ducky to have found such a great new owner.

[Guest crazydoglady99]

Just to clarify 'normal dog'.

 

My version of a normal dog. Still busy, active, play-a-holic. 

But no longer manic or anxious. And can actually switch off and chill.