Can I retrain a retired stud dog not to mark?

[jemappelle]

I'm looking at getting a retired breeding dog.  I have been offered one that marks a lot.  He will be desexed but is there a chance I will never get him out of marking?  I will get belly bands and train him but am I wasting my time as I want a house dog?

 

I know with stud cats that spray, it can be hit and miss whether they still do this when neutered.

 

Your experiences, please.

[~Anne~]

Hit and miss is also applicable to dogs.

 

It really depends on the trainability of the dog, the strength of the original urge to mark, the upbringing (inside at times and partly trained, or never inside and able to mark at will) and the strength of habit. 

 

I've retrained pugs without too much issue.  Some still occasionally marked. One was never able to be trained though, regardless of what we did. 

[Boronia]

Henry was entire when I got him, he marked on everything in the house. I made the effort to take him outside/downstairs every 1/2 hour or so. I also got him desexed a couple of months after buying him (he was terribly overweight and I was concerned with the anesthetic on a fat-porkie dog so he went on a diet until he shed 1.8kg) Henry grasped the concept of weeing outside though it took a couple of months, I think the desexing helped, I would have rather left him entire but he was 10 so I decided that he had tempted the testicular/prostate cancer nasties for enough years so we said bye bye to his boy-bits.

Overall he would have taken 3-4 months for his brain to say 'hang on, it's outside I go'

Poo wasn't much of a problem as he would do that on his walks.

I gave him heaps of praise when we went downstairs and did his wee; treat them as you would a pup, takes a while but does work.

When it comes down to it the only thing they want to do is make you happy with them.

[Dogsfevr]

The issue is stud dog doesn't mean a dirty dog ,it comes down to the toilet training it's had in the past.

If you truly want a house dog then I would think twice ,if it marks a lot then it most likely pees up everything 

 

[jemappelle]

I would say he has had no toilet training as he came from a bit of a bad situation when he was 3 months old to the breeder that has him now.  

 

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Hi jemapelle - i can help you with this.  I am happy to walk you through it.  I have taken plenty of older dogs from either homes who have never desexed/allowed inside and also from breeders.  Happy to chat over the phone or email, just pm me!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Males are actually easier to train!

[jemappelle]

9 hours ago, Her Majesty Dogmad said:

Males are actually easier to train!

That's interesting.  I have never been able to train my Cav girl (she is 12).  She is a big marker and goes everywhere!

 

I'm wondering if these two together will just end up having a marking competition.

[Kajtek]

Very interesting topic. Thank you @jemappelle.

Yes, I believe it can be done.

 

Pipin, my retired stud muffin, is an entire 8+ BB who never lived indoors.

It took me about a month to convince him that his marking place and toilet was outside.

 

He is almost perfect with these exceptions:

a) Mum's bed just had to be peed on once to claim it and to tell HonBun 'the truth' about ownership (He and I had a few words about this enterprising approach to my bed)

b) We are out and he needs to go. He does not seem to have the concept of holding. That's ok... we now have pee pads in the laundry and he uses them when the doors are locked.

 

IMHO, patience, training, praises/treats are the key.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Kajtek

[mita]

On 27 April 2017 at 6:52 PM, ~Anne~ said:

Hit and miss is also applicable to dogs.

 

It really depends on the trainability of the dog, the strength of the original urge to mark, the upbringing (inside at times and partly trained, or never inside and able to mark at will) and the strength of habit. 

 

I've retrained pugs without too much issue.  Some still occasionally marked. One was never able to be trained though, regardless of what we did. 

Big yes, to what Anne's said.  Neighbours adopted a 5 yr old p/b, now desexed, ex-stud tibbie boy, after his breeder tragically died.  He'd lived in kennels with some access to house.   We wondered how he'd adjust, toilet-wise, to being mainly an inside dog in a suburban house with a lawn backyard.  Never missed a beat...took himself downstairs  when he wanted to go, waited upstairs in his bed in morning until his family got up & opened door.  Never, ever an accident, even when left alone in the house.

 

He came to stay with us, for a long weekend.  My routine with the tibbie girls is to take them out into the garden at key times, where they wander around sniffing, until they go to the toilet.  But Creedy objected strongly to being put out like this.  He made it clear he'd know when he wanted to go to the toilet & would then take himself out.    Which he did...so never a slip up here either.  There appears to be something strong in his 'inner' sense of not marking where he eats, sleeps & is with his people.  Another male tib from the same background might have an opposite urge where they mark.  None of us can claim we 'made' Creedy so good!!!!

Edited April 29, 2017 by mita

[westiemum]

Mac was a 6 year old puppy farm rescue  who was desexed just before I got him at age six. And he marked everywhere to begin with.  So I puppy trained him - really strictly - and IIRC he improved out of all sight within a couple of weeks.  The doggy door helped too. 

 

Interestingly Andy, also a puppy farm rescue and entire when I got him (but desexed within a few days) never marked inside, despite having never been in a house.  But hes genuinely a very clever boy!

 

So my experience is its highly variable, but 'curable' if you desex quickly and train early and really intensively. 

[RuralPug]

He is certainly trainable. Follow dogmad's instructions to the T, the more time you can put into the training when you first get him, the quicker he will learn.

One caveat if you have visiting entire or very recently desexed bitches, he may forget his his manners and mark on those occasions, depends on the individual male. Still it just means that you need to recall where you stored those old bellybands if you are going to have a visiting girl.. 

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

It takes about 2 months for testosterone to get out of the dog's system after desexing.

 

That said, most dogs i've rescued have had to be desexed and i just start housetraining the minute i get them home.  You need to be constant - repetition and praise, vigilant and clean up accidents with the right solutions.

 

If you have a dog that is already peeing everywhere and you haven't cleaned up with the right solutions then yes, your house would smell like a toilet to the dog and it will be much harder to housetrain as they will remain confused about where to go.  Here is my method and bear in mind that some dogs are harder to housetrain but i've successfully used this method (with some tweaks) on hundreds of dogs rescued/fostered in my own home and other people's homes:

 

HOUSETRAINING TIPS

 

Ok - first thing to do is decide on the command (I call it “do wees”) you will repeat over and over.  You have to really focus on the dog for about 2-3 days to be successful.  You have a pocketful of special treats on hand all the time for the first 2-3 days.

 

Walk the dog several times a day and every time the dog wees, you get very excited and keep saying “Good boy/girl, do wees, do wees” – give the dog treats every time.

 

First thing in the morning, last thing at night and every time you see the dog eat or drink (both precursors to weeing) whisk the dog into the garden and repeat the command “do wees”.  Get very excited and present treats every time dog goes.

 

The dog’s aim in life is to please you.  If the dog should have an accident inside the house – say NOTHING at all.  The dog soon gets the idea that when he/she goes outside you are really, really pleased and he/she gets rewarded. 

 

 

NB:  Please note that the smell of urine must be properly removed for any housetraining to be successful.  There are products on the market such as “Urine Off” but they are very expensive.  A mix of white vinegar and water is a much cheaper alternative and should work for tiles and other surfaces although you should always take care with wood etc.  For carpet/rugs, I use either a mixture of Napisan/water or bicarb of soda and water.  I completely soak the stain using a dab on technique with a cloth.  When it is very wet, I use an old towel to soak up the excess moisture.  Again, be careful on any expensive carpet/rug, I have never had any problems but I cannot guarantee any method here.

 

 

 

 

[jemappelle]

Thanks Dogmad, but with having cats I am excellent at cleaning up the smell!  lol  Plus Grace has never peed in this house as she is never left to roam freely inside any more.  

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

2 hours ago, jemappelle said:

Thanks Dogmad, but with having cats I am excellent at cleaning up the smell!  lol  Plus Grace has never peed in this house as she is never left to roam freely inside any more.  

That's great, off to a good start.  Don't know what sort of dog it is but a crate or groomer's enclosure are both excellent with regards to helping initially with the housetraining, stops them wandering and peeing at night!

[Boronia]

21 hours ago, Her Majesty Dogmad said:

It takes about 2 months for testosterone to get out of the dog's system after desexing.

 

That said, most dogs i've rescued have had to be desexed and i just start housetraining the minute i get them home.  You need to be constant - repetition and praise, vigilant and clean up accidents with the right solutions.

 

If you have a dog that is already peeing everywhere and you haven't cleaned up with the right solutions then yes, your house would smell like a toilet to the dog and it will be much harder to housetrain as they will remain confused about where to go.  Here is my method and bear in mind that some dogs are harder to housetrain but i've successfully used this method (with some tweaks) on hundreds of dogs rescued/fostered in my own home and other people's homes:

 

HOUSETRAINING TIPS

 

Ok - first thing to do is decide on the command (I call it “do wees”) you will repeat over and over.  You have to really focus on the dog for about 2-3 days to be successful.  You have a pocketful of special treats on hand all the time for the first 2-3 days.

 

Walk the dog several times a day and every time the dog wees, you get very excited and keep saying “Good boy/girl, do wees, do wees” – give the dog treats every time.

 

First thing in the morning, last thing at night and every time you see the dog eat or drink (both precursors to weeing) whisk the dog into the garden and repeat the command “do wees”.  Get very excited and present treats every time dog goes.

 

The dog’s aim in life is to please you.  If the dog should have an accident inside the house – say NOTHING at all.  The dog soon gets the idea that when he/she goes outside you are really, really pleased and he/she gets rewarded. 

 

 

NB:  Please note that the smell of urine must be properly removed for any housetraining to be successful.  There are products on the market such as “Urine Off” but they are very expensive.  A mix of white vinegar and water is a much cheaper alternative and should work for tiles and other surfaces although you should always take care with wood etc.  For carpet/rugs, I use either a mixture of Napisan/water or bicarb of soda and water.  I completely soak the stain using a dab on technique with a cloth.  When it is very wet, I use an old towel to soak up the excess moisture.  Again, be careful on any expensive carpet/rug, I have never had any problems but I cannot guarantee any method here.

 

 

 

 

For the first month or so the house smelt like a vinegar factory but Henry and I got there in the end.

I had to explain to my neighbour what I was doing, she was looking at me strangely when I was down the yard saying  'good boy, clever dog' so often.

[mita]

Neighbours filled me in on their new boy, Creedy, who was perfect adjusting, toileting-wise,  from stud dog in kennels (& some inside) to new suburban home (& ours, too).  His breeder who tragically died was a retired police officer who started the Qld Police Service Dog Squad in the 1970s.  On retirement, he bred & showed tibetan spaniels.  So Creedy was raised & owned by a man who trained & worked with police dogs!      

Edited May 2, 2017 by mita

[jemappelle]

Thanks everyone.

[westiemum]

Yes now I've read Dogmads description I remember! Thats exactly what I did.  Set aside three days or four days and trained Mac really intensively.  WAs well worth the effort - he was a very good boy after that.

[jemappelle]

I went to visit him at the breeder's house today and he was very good for a dog not used to being inside.  He was taken out and weed and then when back inside he went to cock his leg and uhuh from me stopped him!

 

I think he will be easy, once he is used to me as he startles easy (had a rough start to life with no socialising).