amstafflover1035 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Hi everyone, im new to the forum here and i may even be posting on the wrong section but i couldnt find an appropriate area on the list. I bought my amstaff from a "Registered breeder" that i found on gumree and paid the purebreed price which was quite costly. I saw the parents of the amstaff and they seemed healthy and well mannered so i bought my first pup. Finally after 4 months i recieved the pedigree papers, but the information seems to be inconsistant with what he had told me. Firstly the birthdate of my dog and what is on this paper does not match up, and the registered owner on this paper happens to be a lady from melbourne (i made the purchase in sydney and i live here). also the sire is apparently from a kennel that i had been looking at ages ago and i highly doubt the breeder's house was the kennel, he seemed more like a backyard breeder thinking about it now. Also the Dam's colour on the paper says blue and white however the dam i saw on the day was brown and white lol! What should i do in this situation? is this illegal and should it be reported? i love my dog but i still want what i paid for im quite unhappy that i got fooled. Can someone please give me some advice on this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 You need immediately to contact the body (DogsNSW or DogsVIC) that issued the papers and talk to them about it.I assume that the microchip numbers do match? Also contact the lady in Melbourne whose name IS on the papers. If someone is using her prefix illegally she will need to know. It is possible that the man in Sydney has a breeding term arrangement with the lady in Melbourne but the fact that he introduced a different coloured bitch as the dam is something that the registering body needs to investigate in any case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Quote Finally after 4 months i recieved the pedigree papers, but the information seems to be inconsistant with what he had told me. This may also be fraud. You could ask your local consumer rights organisation. You would need a copy of the gumtree ad and anything that supports that he described one thing and provided another. Fake papers would be good evidence. Usually when they say "registered breeder" on Gumtree - they mean with the local council and gumtree sets a max price of $500. But if they are claiming ANKC registration - there are a number of requirements they must meet and provide to any buyer. So you could also report them to gumtree.https://help.gumtree.com.au/AU/articles/en_US/KB_Article/What-are-the-Pets-Policies-AU?vgroup1=PKB&c=PKB%3APolicies&vcategory2=Pets&s= 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstafflover1035 Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 the frustrating thing is i did try to look up the breeder named on the paper however she only comes up in some dog breeders weekly newspaper on google. couldnt find any contact information or anything. I will contact the people that issued the paper tomorrow morning and see how everything goes. As for the gumtree add, i believe its long gone now. I know the name of the person but the ad has been removed... When i got my dog i didnt realise at the persons house but when i went home i found my dog had fleas which was a surprise to me as i thought they would be flea treated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Quote i did try to look up the breeder named on the paper A lot of them aren't on the web or even here... https://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/breeders/american-staffordshire-terrier.asp If you know what state she's supposed to be registered in - you can phone that organisation eg DogsNSW or DogsVic and ask them to confirm the breed prefix and litter registrations and maybe contact details. Ie each breeder to be registered has to pay an annual fee and they get a "journal" which lists all the registered litters.... and new breeder prefixes etc. But it's still very paper based. They have to pay another fee to get listed on the organising body's website. Hence a lot list here instead (cheaper - basic listings are free). And strangely a lot of puppies come with fleas. I think most of the flea treatments are not suitable for puppies (under 6 weeks) or lactating bitches (mothers) - tho you think the breeder would make an effort to keep the environment clean and flea free. But all it takes is one cat to jump the fence and share - tho what flea ridden stray cat would jump in with Amstaff - I don't know. ANKC registered breeders - are not immune to flea ridden puppies unfortunately. And some think you can vaccinate with homeopathy - which is very scary. PS the puppy should be microchipped. That should help Dogs Vic or DogsNSW look up the puppies if you have the chip number. You may need to get a vet to check, but you need to see the vet about vaccinations and flea and worming plans anyway. And if you want to get pet insurance it's a good idea to get a vet to do a general check to avoid problems with denied claims cos of "pre-existing". Edited April 19, 2017 by Mrs Rusty Bucket 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 re the colour. Some blues can look brown. In my breed a blue fawn looks like a pale brown. The litter may have been bred on breeders terms which would mean the named breeder (on the papers) is the actual owner of the bitch at least. I breed my dogs at my home, no kennels here, so technically a back yard breeder. The sire was most likely brought form such and such kennels. Much like someone one would say one of mine was from Brantarby rather then my actual name. The date of birth if only out by a couple of days is nothing. Most likely a mistake. Any more then a few days then yes I would be concerned about that. No puppy should be flea ridden but a few here and there is nothing, fleas are everywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 20 hours ago, Mrs Rusty Bucket said: Usually when they say "registered breeder" on Gumtree - they mean with the local council and gumtree sets a max price of $500. But if they are claiming ANKC registration - there are a number of requirements they must meet and provide to any buyer. So you could also report them to gumtree. I and other breeders advertise on Gumtree. If ethical breeders don't advertise where the public look how will they ( the public ) ever know there is an alternative to the BYBer's? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Amstafflover I have requested this post be moved to the General forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushriver Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 The microchip will probably be your best bet. If they don't match, then yes, something is off. The other things could be explained within reason, but you should have been told all these things prior to buying your pup. Have you questioned the breeder? What did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Depends on what registry ,we can't assume it's dogsNSW or Vic so it depends what the papers look like and issued by ,There are other registry's. As Rebanne has said blue can be deceiving so it's hard to say . But as mentioned the microchip number of the pup should match your puppy . If a dogs NSW member pup has to have chip number to be registered . As for the other info it's hard without seeing the papers to say what is what , Fleas well I would be horrified to have sold a pup with fleas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 You may be able to retrieve the Gumtree ad, here is a link that may help http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1989599 and Wayback Machine; this will find old stuff if you have enough detail from the original ad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine You could also contact Gumtree as they would probably have the digital copy of the ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 On 4/19/2017 at 3:07 AM, amstafflover1035 said: the frustrating thing is i did try to look up the breeder named on the paper however she only comes up in some dog breeders weekly newspaper on google. couldnt find any contact information or anything. I will contact the people that issued the paper tomorrow morning and see how everything goes. As for the gumtree add, i believe its long gone now. I know the name of the person but the ad has been removed... When i got my dog i didnt realise at the persons house but when i went home i found my dog had fleas which was a surprise to me as i thought they would be flea treated. You could try contacting the Am Staff Club in Victoria and they may be able to tell you about the lady in Victoria. The dog can also be searched on the ANKC data base and if you like to send me the name of the dog I'm happy to look it up and see if it is registered with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Quote I and other breeders advertise on Gumtree. yes but you have to meet a bunch of criteria described in the link. Like provide your ANKC controlling body membership number to a would be buyer so they can check. And microchip and vaccinate (but I think all the dog sellers have to do this now)... And then you have to meet the ANKC code of ethics. I have noticed more ANKC registered breeders advertising but as best I can tell they say "ANKC registered" and are very specific about what you get regards paper and puppy. I don't think that's what happened for OP. The gum tree ads where it just says "registered breeder" and doesn't provide any ANKC stuff like membership number or prefix... those are the ones "Registered with council" not ANKC and may or may not be puppy farms. Personally I think that people who think they are buying from a registered breeder - expect ANKC registered and papers and all that. So it really helps if the ad is clear. If the ad is unclear - I wonder what else they're avoiding telling us that we'd want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 ANKC is not the only registry & that is the issue .People need to ask questions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/20/2017 at 8:13 PM, Mrs Rusty Bucket said: yes but you have to meet a bunch of criteria described in the link. Like provide your ANKC controlling body membership number to a would be buyer so they can check. And microchip and vaccinate (but I think all the dog sellers have to do this now)... And then you have to meet the ANKC code of ethics. I have noticed more ANKC registered breeders advertising but as best I can tell they say "ANKC registered" and are very specific about what you get regards paper and puppy. I don't think that's what happened for OP. The gum tree ads where it just says "registered breeder" and doesn't provide any ANKC stuff like membership number or prefix... those are the ones "Registered with council" not ANKC and may or may not be puppy farms. Personally I think that people who think they are buying from a registered breeder - expect ANKC registered and papers and all that. So it really helps if the ad is clear. If the ad is unclear - I wonder what else they're avoiding telling us that we'd want to know. Ive never had to do any of that stuff to advertise on Gumtree.They ask if you are a registered breeder and you tick yes - certainly nothing specific about ANKC Sorry just because you think ANKC is the only way a breeder can be registered that doesn't mean everyone else thinks the same way. Anyone can advertise on Gum tree thankfully without any requirement for numbers or evidence they are registered with one group or another. People I speak to don't expect ANKC registered and all that and so far only one state makes you ad a microchip which you can ring in or a license number. Dogs NSW require a member number but half their time would be taken up with trying to stop people using them when they are not members. In the last week the MDBA has had to report two who have advertise they are our members and even added a fake member number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 To the OP there could be any number of explanations - go back and ask the breeder before you worry about it being shonky. If you aren't satisfied you could then ask for help in what you could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Quote Anyone can advertise on Gum tree thankfully without any requirement for numbers or evidence they are registered with one group or another. Did you read the gum tree pet policy link. Registered breeders are meant to provide evidence to buyers - including membership numbers and licence details. Whether they are ANKC or registered with something else. If you asked the general public what they thought a registered dog breeder was - I think you'd get a description of ANKC whether they knew the name of it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Mrs RB, I think if you asked the general public what they thought a registered dog/breeder was it would be someone registered with the local council. I think the vast majority of the GP are totally unaware of what most of us mean when we talk about registration of dogs and breeders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Airedaler said: Mrs RB, I think if you asked the general public what they thought a registered dog/breeder was it would be someone registered with the local council. I think the vast majority of the GP are totally unaware of what most of us mean when we talk about registration of dogs and breeders. Totally agree - which is why some dodgy operators can give out vet work or a chip record and people think they have their dogs "papers". Safe to assume, you don't know what you don't know. Especially if it's your first time owning a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yes, many people think their dog is a "registered purebred" when they show you their council microchip lifetime registration papers. Lots of confused people out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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