Airedaler Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hi Everyone, Can anyone who has had a dog with a torn/damaged cruciate ligament tell me what their symptoms were please. Did the dog use the leg at all or only at certain times such as when they first get up? Did they carry the leg all the time or were they able to use it happily? How was the condition diagnosed? Did the dog display signs of pain and if so when? On manipulation, on movement or other? Many thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 My agility/obedience BC was partially non weight bearing one morning .. and still the next morning, though no particular pain response on palpation by me, so vet visit . My own vet (does a lot of ortho, though not a specialist) manipulated him for some time, and partly because the dog was resisting, and is well muscled, he could only get a few indicative signs, but he thought it was probably a CrCL partial tear. Vet was going to be away for a while, so we decided on 3 weeks conservative management with Rimadyl/carprofen as anti inflame/[ain relief. I also took him to a rehab vet to discuss post surgery rehab protocol. Her examination produced the same result. So we scheduled surgery (TTO) for when the vet came back, even though by this time, the dog was weight bearing .. but on very limited on leash walking.) Once the dog was anesthetized, vet rang to say he could no longer feel instability or effusion in and around the joint ... so although x rays are not definitive, we did knee xrays (and hips just to compare with the hip rads taken 6 years earlier. And the good news ..."beautiful knees", and no significant arthritic changes in knees or hips. So the conclusion was the original symptoms must have been from a sprain. I didn't take any chance though, and rehabbed him slowly and carefully anyway. So the bottom line for you is that if you have any symptoms suggestive of a CrCL injury, I'd definitely do a vet visit. A partial tear will almost certainly become a complete tear if not treated, and more damage can be done in the meantime. X rays and ultrasound can be indicative, but the only really conclusive imaging apparently is MRI. For information, there is a brilliant FB group called TPLO Treatment for Canines .. in spite of the title, covers all sorts of CrCL surgeries and conservative management. Hugely supportive group, and files have heaps of useful information. Good luck .. do hope it's just a sprain, but if it is a tear, it does seem like surgery is a preferred option, but maybe get a specialist ortho opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDJ Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hi Airedaler I only have experience with one dog - so no idea if this is the norm or not Elderly sheltie, suddenly could not use a hind leg - it was off the ground and she was hopping. The vet described it as '3 leg lame' :-) Vet had a lot of trouble locating the issue - manipulated it a lot and no reaction or sign of pain. Another vet came in and same issue. It was only after a lot of twisting and turning that she reacted (and then it was a huge reaction). Was advised it was definitely a cruciate ligament issue, but that to know exactly what the issue was, then she would need to be x-rayed. They refused to do it without an aesthetic(which I did not feel was safe or appropriate for a 16yo sheltie without absolute justification - and they said she was too old to recommend surgery, so regardless of the diagnosis the treatment would be painkillers and rest). Therefore cant say exactly what level of damage there was After about 6 weeks (by this stage the vet was starting to talk about 'decisions' (code for PTS) as there was no improvement) she started to use the leg a bit. Prior to that she did not use the leg at all when upright, and struggled to get up unaided - even with reasonably strong pain killers. She was uncomfortable, but we believed that when she wasnt using the leg (laying down, or hopping around) she was ok. From 6 weeks on she improved steadily, and by 3 month post injury was back to normal. Dolly was with us for another 2 years and had no relapse, no symptoms or anything - she was active to the end and ran around on 4 sound legs. No idea how she did it, just suddenly on 3 legs - and cured by rest. But a younger or bigger dog may not have had the same outcome Good luck if the question relates to a dog who is injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Thanks Tassie and BDJ for your replies. My two and a half year old Airedale suddenly started carrying one hind leg about 8 weeks ago. She would do this at various times during the day but mainly when she got up from lying down. She would carry it for a few meters and then use as usual, including racing around. I confined her for a few days and it seemed no better so took her to the chiro who said it was a slight tear in the ligament and with rest it should come good in a couple of weeks. We found when she was confined in a small place, ie crate the limp was worse than if confined in a bigger area where she could move around to some extent. After 2 weeks it was better but not right so took her back to the chiro and he said he felt it had improved and sometimes these take longer to heal than other times. After not a lot of improvement I took he to the Vet who said it was not ligament damage and there was no reaction by the dog to any of the pushing pulling etc she did. Pain has not been an issue. Vet thought the problem could be coming from the lower back which was "very tight" and gave us anti inflamatories and more rest. She also gave her a couple of sessions of acupuncture. Progress has been slow but steady but she still basically on rising carries the leg for a while. We have her confined most of the time but on a couple of occasions she has "escaped" and has run without any issues or obvious effect. I've had a couple of Bowen Treatments and she is much better after each of those but 8 weeks since the issue surfaced we are no closer to finding what or where the problem really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 To be honest, I'd be taking her to a specialist orthopaedic vet for assessment. My understanding is that damaged ligaments do not repair themselves, even partial tears. What can happen is that scar tissue can build up around the knee to stabilise it, but the original damage is still there, and in an active dog, there is always the potential for a complete tear. There is also a greater risk of arthritic changes, and damage to the meniscus .. the cartilage covering the surface of the tibial plateau. You're lucky in Victoria to have a choice of really good orthopaedic specialists .. you might be able to get recommendations here. I think most are in Melbourne, but worth the travel. My vet explained that diagnosis on an awake dog can be difficult if it's not a complete tear, especially if the dog is fit and well muscled, as they will tense up their muscles and inhibit the movement the vet is looking for. She's only two and a half, and clearly wants/needs to be active, so I would definitely not be letting it go much longer. Whether it's something coming from the back, or from the knee, it's causing the dog discomfort, and limiting activity, and could well be setting up pre-arthritic changes, I'd say it's worth pursuing via a specialist clinic. But then, as my vet would tell you, I tend to be a bit of a worry wort about my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Airedaler said: Thanks Tassie and BDJ for your replies. My two and a half year old Airedale suddenly started carrying one hind leg about 8 weeks ago. She would do this at various times during the day but mainly when she got up from lying down. She would carry it for a few meters and then use as usual, including racing around. I confined her for a few days and it seemed no better so took her to the chiro who said it was a slight tear in the ligament and with rest it should come good in a couple of weeks. We found when she was confined in a small place, ie crate the limp was worse than if confined in a bigger area where she could move around to some extent. After 2 weeks it was better but not right so took her back to the chiro and he said he felt it had improved and sometimes these take longer to heal than other times. After not a lot of improvement I took he to the Vet who said it was not ligament damage and there was no reaction by the dog to any of the pushing pulling etc she did. Pain has not been an issue. Vet thought the problem could be coming from the lower back which was "very tight" and gave us anti inflamatories and more rest. She also gave her a couple of sessions of acupuncture. Progress has been slow but steady but she still basically on rising carries the leg for a while. We have her confined most of the time but on a couple of occasions she has "escaped" and has run without any issues or obvious effect. I've had a couple of Bowen Treatments and she is much better after each of those but 8 weeks since the issue surfaced we are no closer to finding what or where the problem really is. My old mini poodle girl had the exact symptoms, vets were quite sure she had a partial rupture and wanted me to try anti inflamms and rest, went on and off for about 5 months, finally I had enough and told them to do surgery. Turned out the rupture was worse than they thought. She also went on to do the other cruciate a couple of years later. Hooe you get an answer soon and hopefully without surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 18 months ago my Aussie tore the CL. We took her to Michael Bell in Craigieburn Vet Clinic.... He is a bit of a specialist as they have always worked with Greyhounds plus he is a regular to the USA with some of the leading orthopedic people over there. He performed an operation on my then 8 yo girl... We kept her quiet as best we could for a few months... then she had a tendency to carry her leg a little for about the next 6 months or so.... but about 12 months after the operation she was back to normal... no issues since. They don't put any steel plates so unlikely to have some of the issues with arthritis later on. Plus the cost there was under $1400 whereas other clinics up this way are wanting $2500 - $3500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 The problem is there can be huge variability - is it torn/partially torn/meniscus damage etc. Normally your vet would manipulate and do a certain range of tests to confirm + they would then xray. If this has been going on for 8 weeks it definitely needs further work up. I'd also recc appt .. Sam Snelling at Advanced, the beauty of a specialist centre is they have a broader range of diagnostic imaging so can pinpoint the issue quickly. You could do xrays at your normal vet but that may or may not aid diagnosis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malando Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Hi all, I got the bad news today that my dog has a likely torn CL. I would be keen to know if there are any good vets who are able to repair this in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne (I'm in Bundoora/Mill Park area). Or would I be better off traveling to visit somebody in particular? I'd like to get a few names so I can ring around for availability and price. Also interested in who not to visit! Cheers, Mal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malando Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Really? Nobody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappi&Monty Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) On 12/04/2017 at 0:18 PM, Airedaler said: Hi Everyone, Can anyone who has had a dog with a torn/damaged cruciate ligament tell me what their symptoms were please. Did the dog use the leg at all or only at certain times such as when they first get up? Did they carry the leg all the time or were they able to use it happily? How was the condition diagnosed? Did the dog display signs of pain and if so when? On manipulation, on movement or other? Many thanks in advance Our eldest dog tore both back cruciate ligaments over the space of a few years when he was younger. (2-5 maybe) He partially tore one and was limping so we took him to the vet, meds & bed rest for a few weeks/a month. He partially tore the other one, pretty much the same treatment. And then he fully tore it and got the same treatment but I think stricter bed rest and probably more meds. He is fine now and never needed surgery and we never did physio or anything. So I'm not sure how that happened (lucky I suppose) but the vet seemed to know how to heal him up well! I can't remember what the medicine was sorry, I can ask her if you really want, but I think he might've had some pain relief shots too; weekly for 2 or 3 weeks. He's a 13-14kg Corgi x Terrier rescue who is now 8 and zips around after his 1yo Staffy brother at lightning speed and only occasionally gets sore legs (more due to old sore joints I think). But I would advise you do what your vet says, many dogs will require surgery with a torn ACL I believe, not all as lucky as Scrappi! Edited April 17, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) On 13/04/2017 at 10:28 PM, Malando said: Hi all, I got the bad news today that my dog has a likely torn CL. I would be keen to know if there are any good vets who are able to repair this in the Northern suburbs of Melbourne (I'm in Bundoora/Mill Park area). Or would I be better off traveling to visit somebody in particular? I'd like to get a few names so I can ring around for availability and price. Also interested in who not to visit! Cheers, Mal. A lot of the Victorians may probably away or doing dog stuff. It might be useful if you said what breed/size, age and what activities you do with your dog, as that would influence the kind of repair you would be looking for. With a young to middle aged, active dog, medium to large, it's probably not worth fiddling round with anything other than a major surgery, which would probably be best done by an orthopaedic specialist , As has been said above, those sorts of facilities have experience of what can be technically challenging surgeries, and have good imaging facilities to be sure what they're dealing with, along with links to rehab facilities. On the other hand with an older, inactive, and/or smaller dog, the simpler lateral suture repair may be sufficient. Hope that helps a bit. ETA ... Karly101's post further up makes a recommendation for a specialist at Advanced Vetcare, which is in Kensongton. Might be worth following up. Edited April 17, 2017 by Tassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 Thanks everyone for your replies. At this stage all is looking good and there has been no sign of any problem for several days so I'm quietly confident that all will be well as is the Vet. I'l continue to restrict her exercise and keep her confined for a while yet just to make sure all is good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedaler Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 It looks as though all is well and this problem has been resolved. I showed my girl on Monday and there was no issue at all. In fact she won Best of Breed and Intermediate in Group and was considered for Best Exhibit in Group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 That's great news. Big congratulations!!! Fringies and shortlisting are always good, but especially in the circumstance! And I do know how relieved you are ... I actually still can't believe how lucky I was with Rory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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