Would you get a second opinion now or???

[Scottsmum]

So...  I suspect I know the answer - just need a sounding board and a bit of a vent to be honest!

 

Scottie came home from the kennels, 3-ish weeks ago,  lame (a tuesday). No big deal, they warned me & I assumed he partied too hard in the exercise paddock.  Kept a watch on him over the week and he progressively got worse. Had him into the vet the following Monday (earliest). Had a consult and was sent home on 7 days metacam. He improved - significantly. 

 

24 hours off the metacam - he was worse - and worse  than when he'd gone on. Called the clinic, spoke to the vet, he gave me 30 days more metacam. I asked what else I could I and I was told "keep him quiet".  SO we're now 6 days into the second lot (so almost 2 full weeks on the metacam) and I feel like he's getting worse again. Tiring and getting lame on his evening walk etc. Despite trying to "keep him quiet".  Edited to add: Gentle on leash walks + swimming approved. (as if he'd get wet!)

 

As a side note - I've been saying for a while now that I need a new vet. You can't book into see a particular vet, only one of the 4 I have seen in over 12 months ever remembers me, I feel like there's no continuity (no one ever f***ing reads the file!). They have an emergency after hours service, but you can only make a standard consult in office hours (8-5 Mon-Fri) they're often late, consults are LOOOONGG... and they always stuff up our amitriptyline refills - to the point where I always have to ask for an itemised docket and check everything I'm given before I leave the clinic. The icing on the cake was on Monday when I walked in, paid $70 for the metacam, got in the car & opened the brown bag the meds are dispensed in to discover a they'd given me a half order of amitriptyline! (took them 15 minutes to figure out what had happened - with the receptionist trying to send me home saying "we'll let you know when we figure it out" and "it's lucky you noticed"  - turns out it was the other half of an Ami. order they didn't fill a month ago and have been trying to get me to pay for!) I was, and still am, livid!

 

So...

 

Do I go back to them now - and hope I can see the vet who saw him for his sore back? or at least hope he's in the building and he can pop in and take a look?

 

Do I go to the new place I have picked - bearing in mind he's on pain relief so any physical they do is likely to not be 100% accurate.

 

Giving him a day or two off the metacam for a consult with the new vet isn't really an option 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Scottsmum
clarification.

[Danois]

If you've been told to keep him quiet, why is he still getting walked? I'd be resting him completely. 

[Scottsmum]

12 minutes ago, Danois said:

If you've been told to keep him quiet, why is he still getting walked? I'd be resting him completely. 

Should have said - gentle on leash walking or swimming encouraged - to help keep muscle tone.  (and I think he'd kill me in my sleep if I dared try not walking him!)

Edited March 4, 2017 by Scottsmum

[denali]

Id try a new vet 

[Dogsfevr]

Find a dog chiropractor or Bowen massage.

[Simply Grand]

If he was worse after the 7 days of metacam it seems like maybe the pain was being masked which allowed more damage to be caused. If 7 days possibly caused more damage another 30 doing the same things could cause much more

 

I'd get a second opinion now (well soon, I don't mean rush off to the emergency vet!)

[karen15]

New vet. Service is not good enough. I'd call or email the practice manager so they knew exactly why you were leaving.

 

I cracked it with my vets a while back. From memory I'd waited for a vet who didn't show (horse appointment so they're a bit different), over two hours late to make up appointment. At the same time as cracking it over the horse I added the desexing of the westie. They shaved his entire tum from ribs down and inner legs and gave him razor burn, but on top of that shaved his front leg from elbow to paw for the anesthetic. I was furious. He has a lovely proper coat that has never seen clippers. It took 12 months for me not to notice the difference in legs. Every time I saw him I was so furious with the vet. I learned that day to insist on only using the vet I like. The desexing was done by another vet as mine was away. Never again unless it's an emergency and the last emergency visit I had manhandled my very elderly dog and upset me no end, so it would have to be life and death emergency not the bleeding tumor my old dog had.

[Papillon Kisses]

I'd get second opinion. Three weeks seems like a long time to see no improvement and instead worsening symptoms?

 

I'd also switch vets based on service/stuff ups alone. I go to a clinic with multiple vets and they are all across everything due to good practices. When we arrive the consulting vet is already checking his file.

 

Is Scottie still able to do a little nose work? If so would that help wear out his brain without hurting his back? Provided he's of the slow methodical type vs a doggy tornado.

 

Maybe we can convince @Jumabaar to take a spontaneous holiday in NZ?

 

 <--- that's Scottie pulling her over the Tasman sea with his enagmatic charm. He might be going a bit too fast.

[Two Best Dogs!]

I have ditched vets before for frequent stuff ups, pet health is not where repeat administrative or lazy mistakes should be happening! I also do not like repeating myself over and over for the same issue because they did not read the notes from previous visits on files....it damages the trust.

 

I'd be over the hills and far away checking out the second opinion before any more damage is done to the leg! I think like SG, if he's WORSE after 7 days of metacam....it is masking the pain while more damage happen...

[Scottsmum]

20 minutes ago, Thistle the dog said:

I have ditched vets before for frequent stuff ups, pet health is not where repeat administrative or lazy mistakes should be happening! I also do not like repeating myself over and over for the same issue because they did not read the notes from previous visits on files....it damages the trust.

 

I'd be over the hills and far away checking out the second opinion before any more damage is done to the leg! I think like SG, if he's WORSE after 7 days of metacam....it is masking the pain while more damage happen...

Ah. Thisle - I've been so spoilt - we have used the same family vet since 2000 - and because I worked for her for a while I trusted her implicitly and also got to always see her - not who ever else was around. The only time I I have never had to change vets beyond that when I moved 40 minutes - and even then I went to a vet who'd been treating family pets for over 10 years. So picking a new one was hard, especially when I didnt know a single person in the country, let alone in town and this one should have been a safe bet.  Anyhow, I do think he's worse so I will try to get in to see the new ones, who have come recommended by two separate people. 

 

15 hours ago, showdog said:

Find a dog chiropractor or Bowen massage.

Yeh. I thought about that - and had hoped that the GP would refer me to one of the conditioning vets. I'm just hesitant to do much to him / have much done without the guidance of a good vet. You know...  and also we have ... limited options around... 

 

 

 

Thanks everyone else for thoughts & opinions. As I said, I kind of knew the answer but wasn't sure if I was being rash & I've never "dumped" a vet before - it feels terrible. Luckily for Scottsman, he's still bright & happy, eating and pooing and demanding walks. 

[Airedaler]

More often than not Vets treat the symptoms, not the cause. Like Showdog I would try and see a chiropractor/muscle man. I understand you may have limited options but are their greyhound people around? Usually where you find greyhounds you can find someone who works on them.

I took my girl to a chiropractor recently for a torn medial ligament. He was so gentle with her, no bone crunching at all and he gave me a mix to put on the sore area which was basically voltaren emugel mixed with a carrier substance (DMSO?)

He was not keen on getting anti inflamatories or pain killers as the mask the pain and do not stop the dog being active.

Metacam is only controlling the pain not addressing the problem.

[Papillon Kisses]

I agree with you on many points Airedaler. GP vets do seem to treat symptoms instead of getting to the cause. I found that with my own dog.

 

But I disagree with pain being used as a restraint.

 

http://www.primalpaws.com/blog/pain-should-never-be-used-as-a-restraint

Edited March 5, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[tdierikx]

At the very least, I'd be asking for an xray...

 

T.

[Scottsmum]

27 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

At the very least, I'd be asking for an xray...

 

T.

Yes, that was the next thing on the list if it didn't settle after the metacam. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Airedaler said:

 I understand you may have limited options but are their greyhound people around? Usually where you find greyhounds you can find someone who works on them.

I took my girl to a chiropractor recently for a torn medial ligament. He was so gentle with her, no bone crunching at all and he gave me a mix to put on the sore area which was basically voltaren emugel mixed with a carrier substance (DMSO?)

He was not keen on getting anti inflamatories or pain killers as the mask the pain and do not stop the dog being active.

Metacam is only controlling the pain not addressing the problem.

Ah... good point.  I think there is a local dog track in town. I do also know that the Greyhound as pets people have a kennel about 40 minutes from here, so will have a dig around and see what I can find. 

But as I said, I really feel like I need to be under the guidance of a good GP before I start adding other treatments in - especially as he's also on a few other meds and I need to be careful of contradictions and stuff (*to be clear I know chiro probably wont interact with drugs - but you know what I mean. I feel like I need a good comprehensive and holistic plan...)

 

1 hour ago, Papillon Kisses said:

I agree with you on many points Airedaler. GP vets do seem to treat symptoms instead of getting to the cause. I found that with my own dog.

 

But I disagree with pain being used as a restraint.

 

http://www.primalpaws.com/blog/pain-should-never-be-used-as-a-restraint

As someone with a terrible back, I agree with PK and, by extension Jumabaar/Primal Paws. His happiness & comfort is important and I'm not keen on pain being used as a restraint. 

 

 

[Dogsfevr]

Most vets do not believe in alternative treatments like chiro,bowon,acupunture etc etc hence they will rarely recommend one as they don't now any .

They will prescribe on going meds instead .

I head to our bowen person before the vet & they don't give meds just treat the muscle injury .

 

Has your dog had the runs ??

 

Also contact horse clubs especially those that do dressage,those horses will be treated by Bowen or like minded treatments & red light theraphy .

I now Bowen is someone what new to NZ & there are people studying it .I do now someone

As to rest all the treatments my dogs get light walking is encourage just like humans sitting around doing nothing can make the issue worse unless of course its a fracture for example

 

[Scottsmum]

1 hour ago, showdog said:

Most vets do not believe in alternative treatments like chiro,bowon,acupunture etc etc hence they will rarely recommend one as they don't now any .

They will prescribe on going meds instead .

I head to our bowen person before the vet & they don't give meds just treat the muscle injury .

 

Has your dog had the runs ??

 

Also contact horse clubs especially those that do dressage,those horses will be treated by Bowen or like minded treatments & red light theraphy .

I now Bowen is someone what new to NZ & there are people studying it .I do now someone

As to rest all the treatments my dogs get light walking is encourage just like humans sitting around doing nothing can make the issue worse unless of course its a fracture for example

 

They have a conditioning clinic / program attached to the clinic. No runs. Thank god. 

 

 Thanks for the other ideas/thoughts 

[Tara and Sam]

4 hours ago, showdog said:

Most vets do not believe in alternative treatments like chiro,bowon,acupunture etc etc hence they will rarely recommend one as they don't now any .

They will prescribe on going meds instead .

I head to our bowen person before the vet & they don't give meds just treat the muscle injury .

 

Has your dog had the runs ??

 

Also contact horse clubs especially those that do dressage,those horses will be treated by Bowen or like minded treatments & red light theraphy .

I now Bowen is someone what new to NZ & there are people studying it .I do now someone

As to rest all the treatments my dogs get light walking is encourage just like humans sitting around doing nothing can make the issue worse unless of course its a fracture for example

 

Been following  the thread with interest andmums dogs is similar to SM  post

but  mums girl has had the runs , may I ask why you asked that is there some connection ?

 

 

sorry  to hijack your post SM 

[Papillon Kisses]

Flipside...

 

When Mal was on metacam for his back, we were advised to give him a bit of sardine each day. Constipation can be a side effect and straining can cause further injury. The sardines reportedly help keep them regular.

 

Not that this helps Scottie with his hatred of fish... and I dare not mention pumpkin!

[Scottsmum]

8 hours ago, Tara and Sam said:

Been following  the thread with interest andmums dogs is similar to SM  post

but  mums girl has had the runs , may I ask why you asked that is there some connection ?

 

 

sorry  to hijack your post SM 

No problem @Tara and Sam. 

 

I assumed it was related to metacam possibly making him off in the belly. 

 

 

 

[Scottsmum]

14 hours ago, showdog said:

Most vets do not believe in alternative treatments like chiro,bowon,acupunture etc etc hence they will rarely recommend one as they don't now any .

They will prescribe on going meds instead .

I head to our bowen person before the vet & they don't give meds just treat the muscle injury .

 

Has your dog had the runs ??

 

Also contact horse clubs especially those that do dressage,those horses will be treated by Bowen or like minded treatments & red light theraphy .

I now Bowen is someone what new to NZ & there are people studying it .I do now someone

As to rest all the treatments my dogs get light walking is encourage just like humans sitting around doing nothing can make the issue worse unless of course its a fracture for example

 

Oh! @showdog - I thought about this later - you're right - where there's horses there's chiros!  LOL. I liked a horse chiro ages ago on facebook who also does dogs. (And yes, before anyone asks, a "real" chiro for people, with extra quals for animals + vet nursing certificate and lots of other certificates + 16 years experience + owns dressage horses & English Pointers). Her only down side is that she's a few hours away and does regular runs through the region. But have contacted her to see when she's next planning to be in town.  

 

Also thought a bit more about your post last night - I might have missed the point you were making about GP vets.  What I was trying to say when I said "I feel like I need to be under the guidance of a good GP" was I really want a vet who says "oh hes looking well (or not)" or "how's the X going? Did you try Y?"

 

 Vs what I'm getting at the moment. One vet walked into the consult room a few weeks ago and said "Hi I'm xxx, I don't think we've met before" - To which I said, "Actually I've been you at least three times" they also repeatedly try to sell me hills food, what ever, except I feel like I tell them he's grain free every time I'm there. I know my dog isn't a special snowflake and they should remember ever detail about us - but I don't think reading the file is too much to ask....