westiemum Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 This is madness. If the regulators are not prepared to enforce the regulations and absolutely guarantee that this abhorrent practice isn't happening anymore, then its time to shut this industry down. greyhound-regulator-cant-rule-out-continued-live-baiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) very disheartening, but it shows whats next for the pet dogs, if cant guarantee no breeder neglects a dog then that too will be shut down, this is what is coming, one offender, all are guilty by association. When or if will it dawn on pet owners and breeders AR have brainwashed the public. A woman has died almost every week of this year due to domestic violence and they (by they, I mean our wonderful Prime Minister who has made no cuts to his or his ministers spending though) are shutting down funding and shelters so more will die. Yet all owners and breeders of greyhounds are guilty by association and pet owners and breeders are guilty by association when someone breaks the law, and just the same for pet breeds when the banner of puppy farm eradication is waved. who else sees hypocrisy in this scenario? Edited February 22, 2017 by asal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, westiemum said: This is madness. If the regulators are not prepared to enforce the regulations and absolutely guarantee that this abhorrent practice isn't happening anymore, then its time to shut this industry down. greyhound-regulator-cant-rule-out-continued-live-baiting of course they can't shut it down, it's no different to preventing cruelty to pets. Some people will always do the wrong thing no matter what. Would you like to outlaw pet ownership as well? All that can be done is make the penalties tougher and enforce them. For everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Agreed Westiemum. Where a dog's sole purpose in life is profit, there's *always* going to be ongoing issues with welfare and cruelty. These systemic issues can never be resolved. Shut it down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 You can't control live baiting because it's done on private property where no one see's . The industry is full of thugs and our government has no balls . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) This government has plenty of balls when it comes to shutting the door to pensioners, anyone unfortunate to have to deal with centrelink, some one killed themselves last week because he couldn't cope with all the demand letters for return of payments yet they had been advised he had mental health issues and did not owe anything. As I said earlier cut the funding to shelters and domestic violence resources. Plenty of balls when it suits them whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty, thousands should not be penalised for the few who do break the law. surely a domestic violence victim should have the same protection as a rabbit or any other species used for live baiting? at the moment that does not seen to be the case. although I suppose it would be a long bow to shut down marriage or defacto relationships to stop it happening? Thats what you are calling for as regards the greyhound owners, although it seems many value a dogs right to life and happiness, over and above someones spouse in the same danger.. Edited February 22, 2017 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 17 hours ago, juice said: You can't control live baiting because it's done on private property where no one see's . The industry is full of thugs and our government has no balls . Agreed to a certain extent juice. Certainly the regulations need to be much tougher. But overall after everythign tht has happened in this industry these nutbags are still doing it and putting their whole industry at risk. While the decision was reversed of course its possible to shut it down. Its happened before and is on its last legs in the US and elsewhere. And as I said before there are two things here - firstly, this will not end as these stupid stupid people will continue to live bait as they think they have some God-given right to do so - so its what we call an unwritten cultural ground rule in this industry that says its OK to live bait. That won't change where profit, gambling and money is involved. Secondly, the animal welfare groups will never give up on this - the 4 Corners report will happen again - and its only a matter of time before this ghastly industry is shut down for good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) after seeing some of the media attacks on the chap who lost everything in the fire out west nice to see some of his dogs did survive and were helped. " RSPCA Vs NGRU CEASE FIRE Well just for this post anyway... after all the RSPCA publicly attacked our group not so long ago. But we would like to think we're the level headed and more mature group that actually wants the best for our dogs. We wanted to highlight something regarding the Warren Jarvis tragedy that has gone untold. It's already known that the RSPCA and GRNSW attended Mr Jarvis's property soon after the devastating fire that killed most of his animals, including dozens of greyhounds, some of which were pets. After the surviving dogs were looked over by the RSPCA, they found some needed treatment for their burns. Long story short, they jumped back in their car and drove to the nearest vet to collect the required treatment. They then drove back to Warren's and showed him how to use it to get the best results. They provided it for free. This is the old RSPCA that we all want back! We want you guys to spend more time helping animals, rather than wasting money like groups such as Animals Australia do on lobbying the government to ban all animal sports and industries! Plus we would like to see you rehome more dogs and cats, you have the money and the resources to improve it, the public expect better. Animal rights has no place anywhere in this world, but animal welfare should be something everyone works together to achieve the best outcome for all animals. So please do more of what you did for Warren and his much loved hounds, and less of the anti-racing propaganda rubbish. " #AnimalWelfareNotAnimalRights " no I have never owned a greyhound or involved with the industry, although I do have more than a passing knowledge of DV and its impact Edited February 22, 2017 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, westiemum said: Agreed to a certain extent juice. Certainly the regulations need to be much tougher. But overall after everythign tht has happened in this industry these nutbags are still doing it and putting their whole industry at risk. While the decision was reversed of course its possible to shut it down. Its happened before and is on its last legs in the US and elsewhere. And as I said before there are two things here - firstly, this will not end as these stupid stupid people will continue to live bait as they think they have some God-given right to do so - so its what we call an unwritten cultural ground rule in this industry that says its OK to live bait. That won't change where profit, gambling and money is involved. Secondly, the animal welfare groups will never give up on this - the 4 Corners report will happen again - and its only a matter of time before this ghastly industry is shut down for good. It is happening only last week some proposals were put forward to the government as to how the industry would be regulated. It is some of the toughest regulation pertaining to the welfare of animals that any animal industry has. http://www.racing.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/final-panel-report-february-2017.pdf Edited February 22, 2017 by m-j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 20 hours ago, juice said: You can't control live baiting because it's done on private property where no one see's . The industry is full of thugs and our government has no balls . And this applies to many many social issues. We have reached a very sad state of affairs. Of course, it was always thus and a damned sight worse; but today we have it emblazened across newspapers, social media, and what we also see now is how the powers that be wriggle and squirm and make excuses as to why nothing can be done. Solutions are there; governments at all levels just won’t do the right thing where money and their mates are involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, westiemum said: Agreed to a certain extent juice. Certainly the regulations need to be much tougher. But overall after everythign tht has happened in this industry these nutbags are still doing it and putting their whole industry at risk. While the decision was reversed of course its possible to shut it down. Its happened before and is on its last legs in the US and elsewhere. And as I said before there are two things here - firstly, this will not end as these stupid stupid people will continue to live bait as they think they have some God-given right to do so - so its what we call an unwritten cultural ground rule in this industry that says its OK to live bait. That won't change where profit, gambling and money is involved. Secondly, the animal welfare groups will never give up on this - the 4 Corners report will happen again - and its only a matter of time before this ghastly industry is shut down for good. I think it's more than that WestieMum - there's no doubt that the thrill of experiencing the chase and a real kill at the end of it increases drive. My very prey driven dog unfortunately caught a possum one night while out on a toilet break in the backyard - her drive for prey but possums specifically went through the roof even more after that. It was clear that there's very few things in the world that will ever compare to just how much she enjoyed that experience and she certainly wants to seek it out again (of course, further measures have been put in place to prevent that). So, live baiting *does* on the whole give an already prey-driven dog huge satisfaction of it's instincts, and it likely to get the dog to work harder/faster to try and achieve that in the future. Basically, it gives your dog a potential advantage over one that hasn't been live baited. When we're talking about big money and accolades that's a risk many are willing to take, especially when the likelihood of them being caught is still fairly slim. Which is a perfect example of why the industry is unsustainable. People will always continue to live bait because it gives them an advantage and the potential to earn more money from the dogs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, melzawelza said: I think it's more than that WestieMum - there's no doubt that the thrill of experiencing the chase and a real kill at the end of it increases drive. My very prey driven dog unfortunately caught a possum one night while out on a toilet break in the backyard - her drive for prey but possums specifically went through the roof even more after that. It was clear that there's very few things in the world that will ever compare to just how much she enjoyed that experience and she certainly wants to seek it out again (of course, further measures have been put in place to prevent that). So, live baiting *does* on the whole give an already prey-driven dog huge satisfaction of it's instincts, and it likely to get the dog to work harder/faster to try and achieve that in the future. Basically, it gives your dog a potential advantage over one that hasn't been live baited. When we're talking about big money and accolades that's a risk many are willing to take, especially when the likelihood of them being caught is still fairly slim. Which is a perfect example of why the industry is unsustainable. People will always continue to live bait because it gives them an advantage and the potential to earn more money from the dogs. Sorry but this couldn't be further from the truth, if you use a toy properly you will get just as good results, I spent 10 yrs doing it with 100's of dogs including many that had previously stopped chasing given a kill and they were then sent to me to get them to chase, I never failed, live baiting did. The bottom line is they aren't chasing a rabbit, possum etc around the track. I put this myth in the same category as you can't train an obedience dog with reward of a food or toy, science has made it so we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 They will use any means they can to make money, drugging them up seems to be common practice too. And they have the gaul to appear on tv doing the woe is me and my industry, trying to tell us the 150 dogs they have on their property are not killed or shipped overseas to die, so where do they all go then? While members of the same family stand there looking innocent when they have been banned for drugging dogs. They are fooling no one, 4 corners will get them again, and hopefully someone with more balls than Mike Baird will ban it for good instead of being bullied into backflipping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 hours ago, m-j said: Sorry but this couldn't be further from the truth, if you use a toy properly you will get just as good results, I spent 10 yrs doing it with 100's of dogs including many that had previously stopped chasing given a kill and they were then sent to me to get them to chase, I never failed, live baiting did. The bottom line is they aren't chasing a rabbit, possum etc around the track. I put this myth in the same category as you can't train an obedience dog with reward of a food or toy, science has made it so we can. For most dogs who have experienced both, toys will not elicit the same drive satisfaction as a true bite. Ask police dog handlers if the dog changes after the first time it gets to bite an actual arm, rather than a sleeve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, juice said: They will use any means they can to make money, drugging them up seems to be common practice too. And they have the gaul to appear on tv doing the woe is me and my industry, trying to tell us the 150 dogs they have on their property are not killed or shipped overseas to die, so where do they all go then? While members of the same family stand there looking innocent when they have been banned for drugging dogs. They are fooling no one, 4 corners will get them again, and hopefully someone with more balls than Mike Baird will ban it for good instead of being bullied into backflipping. in your enthusiasm to punish those who do. you seem to be conveniently forgetting those who don't. Last I looked the figures were the wrongdoers are very much in the minority. If the shoe was on your foot of guilty by association would you give up your dogs on the grounds you must lose yours for the greater good because a minority of others are breaking the law? Edited February 23, 2017 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) cant be bothered . Industry hopefully gets what it deserves . Edited February 23, 2017 by juice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, melzawelza said: For most dogs who have experienced both, toys will not elicit the same drive satisfaction as a true bite. Ask police dog handlers if the dog changes after the first time it gets to bite an actual arm, rather than a sleeve... I am talking about dogs that had experienced both experiences. Not all the dogs I worked with had, but quite a few had. I watched the four corners live baiting episode watched the reactions of the dogs and thought why would you bother when a toy used properly produces the same reaction and enthusiasm. Edited February 23, 2017 by m-j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, juice said: cant be bothered . Industry hopefully gets what it deserves . LOL so on your guilty by association belief think its time to shut down the catholic church too. when even the Pope is complicit in protecting the guilty, aka made Pell a cardinal considering for decades he protected the perps and was moved to rome so he cant be recalled back to Australia to testify, that's called perverting the course of justice , always liked Geoffrey Robertson, even more now. the figures of 4445 may not seem like many but in the light of 70% kill themselves so they are missing from that total. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4477315/calls-for-vatican-diplomatic-recognition-to-end/ Edited February 23, 2017 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 7 hours ago, asal said: LOL so on your guilty by association belief think its time to shut down the catholic church too. when even the Pope is complicit in protecting the guilty, aka made Pell a cardinal considering for decades he protected the perps and was moved to rome so he cant be recalled back to Australia to testify, that's called perverting the course of justice , always liked Geoffrey Robertson, even more now. the figures of 4445 may not seem like many but in the light of 70% kill themselves so they are missing from that total. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4477315/calls-for-vatican-diplomatic-recognition-to-end/ It absolutely is. A more corrupt, unethical and dangerous organisation, you couldn't hope to find. This doesn't mean that everyone involved in the organisation was guilty but when you have a system in place that rewards unethical behaviour, you're going to have problems. The same applies to the greyhound racing industry, unfortunately. Many changes have been proposed to limit the motivations for cheating (by doping, live baiting, whatever), but the industry has always been reluctant to change, until forced to do so by things like the live baiting scandal. The bit I have trouble understanding is how participants will rush furiously to the defense of the industry but then fight the changes that would ensure its longevity. They got a win with Baird's back down but if they think the same old issues won't get dragged up every other week until the government has no choice but to ban it everywhere, permanently, they're out to breakfast, lunch and tea. Yes, some want the changes, some aren't the problem and so on (this argument has been done to death, over and over again) but some people not being the problem, doesn't fix the problem. I recently found out that a trainer's brother (who is very involved with GAP Tas- if you're reading this, Mr. B, hi!) had been purposely spreading bizarre rumours about my rescue, seemingly to discredit me. This, even though I take dogs for free, pay for everything myself, have an excellent reputation for proper testing/appropriate rehoming and in doing so, I reduce THEIR euthanasia stats and save THEIR participants money in destroying dogs. So yeah, if they want to keep shooting themselves in the foot, whatever. You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't mean it won't kick you in the face for your trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 And another training caught doping his dog. But of course he is innocent, and only gets a suspension, so someone else in his family will probably enter dogs and it really doesn't effect him. Keep digging that hole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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