Off lead socialising in a pen- is this normal?

[brittany13]

Hi all

Yesterday I attended dog training at our local dog club (small club in a small country town) with our 13 week old pup for the first time. 

It has been many years since we have gone to a dog school, back when our old dogs (that have since passed away) were young dogs.

We used to trial our dogs back then so did do a fair bit of training with them - ie I am not a total novice.

I know its been years and methods can change - but I was quite concerned with one method the trainer used during our lesson yesterday. It was a socialisation exercise where we were all told to enter a large wire dog run about 3m x 3m. I was in a class of 6 and they were dogs of various ages and sizes  - not a dedicated puppy class as the club is too small, but a mixed beginners class. No young pups except mine.

We were told to remove our leads so the dogs could all socialise off lead in the pen. I was not impressed at all with this idea but did what was asked. My puppy was fairly overwhelmed at times by some of the behaviors of the bigger dogs in such close quarters with no where to go and one of the dogs was quite fixated on him, eventually bailing him up in the corner. Eventually I couldn't take it any more and picked him up and left the pen. The instructor told me this is wrong removing him and that dog fights occur more often on lead and that putting them off lead in the pen encourages them to learn to all get along nicely.

Call me old fashioned - but I don't think that's the right was to go about it with dogs in a beginner class with inexperienced owners??

They certainly never did anything like this in lessons I attended years ago.

I was anxious our young pup could have got traumatised by this sort of exercise or even injured! Luckily he is a really outgoing pup and is fine.

I am extremely reluctant to do it again when told to at the next training lesson - I would rather skip this exercise.

Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this method.

Thanks 

[persephone]

That sounds a bit too full-on to me . I think you are wise in taking pup out ..and not doing it again . 

There's socialisation , and there's free-for-all . 6 dogs in a small area like that .... anything could happen .

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by persephone

[ness]

I also think you were right to remove your puppy. I would never place my well socialised adult dog in that situation never mind a puppy. To much can go wrong. I don't really encourage my dogs to play with other dogs and especially strange dogs where I don't know the owners or the temperaments of the other dogs.

Edited February 6, 2017 by ness

[Simply Grand]

Completely agree with you, I don't think that's a necessary exercise at all. I would just politely say "no thanks, I don't want to do that, I'm more here to work in the training relationship with my pup than socialisation with other dogs", and practice something else, even calm time, with your pup while the others do that.

 

No instructor has the right to tell you you have to do something with your dog.

[Verve]

I totally agree with everyone else's comments. I would not participate in the socialisation exercise as it is not necessary and with dogs of different ages and different sizes there is a risk of an incident (even accidental rough play). Do not feel you have too and an Instructor should respect your decision as the puppy's owner.  When our boy was 4 months old (standard poodle) our class had off leash play time - which he never did - he is highly social with other dogs (not reactive) and he is very focused on his handler in obedience. At the time we were made to feel like the worst owners but as he is now 4 years old and completely chilled wherever he goes I don't regret saying no to the instructor. 

 

Go with your instincts that's what I've learnt.

[The Spotted Devil]

No completely inappropriate even with puppies. Not something I would do with a class nor my own pups. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by The Spotted Devil

[brittany13]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

It made us feel uneasy having puppy participate in this pen exercise but went along with the instructors request as she was very insistent when we hesitated.

My husband and I talked about it after the lesson was over and our reluctance to do it in future lessons.

Good to hear we are not the only ones thinking it is a inappropriate and risky exercise.

We will be telling the instructor we will not be participating in the pen exercise again.

[Simply Grand]

I was actually thinking it would be a good opportunity to practice working with your pup around distractions, so while the others are running around playing you can work outside the pen on him keeping his focus on you and getting highly rewarded for that

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

one of my friends just got scammed by google imposters - those guys were very insistent that they were the real google too...

 

If I was teaching - and someone was uncomfortable with what I had proposed - I would not insist they participate.   I would let them observe those who were willing or a demonstration by me and my dog... and do a lot of explaining.

 

Dogs generally are not the greatest at making good decisions in their own interests, and a big dog can injure a little one just by stepping on it so jamming mixed dogs in together - is too much like a fight pen or a really bad experience for the dogs for my liking.

I like simply grand's idea of working distraction training near the pen but not in it. 

personally for dog social skills I do a variation of loose lead walking and following... so two dogs at a time (not 6), on lead so owners have some control, first they line up one behind the other with a good gap big enough that each puppy can still pay attention to the owner - so how far would vary but out of sniffing reach on full lead length at least.   Then the lead dog goes, and the following dog follows, then after a bit - when both dogs are calm and not pulling, the following dog turns and then the lead dog turns and they walk in the opposite direction - maintaining sufficient distance that both dogs can pay attention to their owners.

 

And then I might try a greeting but if either dog gets to the end of the lead, I'd turn or make distance until the lead was loose again.   And I'd keep repeating until the dogs could approach on loose lead - maybe one dog is moving and the other is sitting.  (Take turns at this).   If either dog was a bit anxious about it, I would not insist on a greeting.   Or I might do a 3 second greeting and leave... one dog usually wants to sniff more the other dog can cope with and then it can go to hell fast.

What you want is for dogs to be happy and confident in each other's company.  You don't get that if one or more dogs are bullying the other and the other one can't get to safety.

 

When I did do puppy school with a vet supervising - we did have four puppies all off lead in a confined space but the scaredy puppy in the group was able to go under a chair under the owner and be left alone.   Strangely this was the bossy puppy in a previous group...

And in my puppy school, the smallest youngest puppy was the most bossy and outgoing - mine (oops). 

and if there was any behaviour I didn't like I just moved my puppy away.  Ie not too fond of her bullying.   So she'd get removed and to start again.

 

At the park - I always wait for a calm sit before I let my dog off lead...  If she's pulling - that's not a behaviour I want to encourage, and whomever else is there might not like a dog approaching at full speed.  Not that she does that - she likes sniffing better.