To Vaccinate Or Not.

[Scrappi&Monty]

Hello,

I had been doing a bit of reading about dog vaccinations and how regularly they are actually required and that they might have negative side effects/be a waste of money and a vaccine etc.

Monty needs his booster from his puppy vaccines, but I'm undecided whether we should re-vaccinate Scrappi yet.

He is turning 8 and has had annual vaccines his whole life until this year. I'm not sure which brand/type our normal vet uses and if it is different but Monty was done with Nobivac DHP and KC in Jan 2016 by the RSPCA. I read on the Nobivac website that just requires pup vaccines and then adult booster then it lasts at least 3 years or something?

Would love to hear others opinions/how often everyone else does theirs.

I've heard that they used to be considered annual by the company, and that many vets keep them annual to get people to take their dogs for annual checkups because otherwise a lot of people wouldn't, so that's kind of understandable. But regardless I would take mine at least annually anyway.

Thank you ????

Edit: also what is the difference between these DHP & KC and C5 vaccination? Are the C5 still reccomended annually?

Edited January 8, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty

[cavNrott]

My dogs get all the puppy shots and then a booster at 16 months. After that they have no more vaccinations.

[Simply Grand]

From what I can see the DHP + intranasal KC and the C5 cover the same conditions (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and bordatella), they just use different variants of the parainfluenza and bordatella viruses so I would think whichever your vet chooses to use would be fine.

As far as frequency, agree you need to do the puppy ones and first adult booster. After that you have the option of triennial - I really think annual is over vaccinating these days - and if you ever put your dogs in kennels or if you want to join most training clubs they will require current vaccinations; or you can go with titre testing, which is becoming increasingly available. This is testing to see if your dog has antibodies against the various diseases and if it does vaccination isn't required and would in fact be useless.

Although like cavNrott many people don't continue to vaccinate adult dogs, especially older ones as chances are if they have been out and about walking around a normal amount they will have been exposed to the various diseases and have immunity anyway.

I personally do triennial basically for the sake of being able to show they are vaccinated if need be for the reasons mentioned above.

[Scrappi&Monty]

From what I can see the DHP + intranasal KC and the C5 cover the same conditions (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and bordatella), they just use different variants of the parainfluenza and bordatella viruses so I would think whichever your vet chooses to use would be fine.

As far as frequency, agree you need to do the puppy ones and first adult booster. After that you have the option of triennial - I really think annual is over vaccinating these days - and if you ever put your dogs in kennels or if you want to join most training clubs they will require current vaccinations; or you can go with titre testing, which is becoming increasingly available. This is testing to see if your dog has antibodies against the various diseases and if it does vaccination isn't required and would in fact be useless.

Although like cavNrott many people don't continue to vaccinate adult dogs, especially older ones as chances are if they have been out and about walking around a normal amount they will have been exposed to the various diseases and have immunity anyway.

I personally do triennial basically for the sake of being able to show they are vaccinated if need be for the reasons mentioned above.

Thanks Simply Grand,

I'll have a speak to my vet about triennial. Possibly get them both done today then wait 3 years for next ones...

With C5, wouldn't that need to be annual though to cover KC?

[Scrappi&Monty]

My dogs get all the puppy shots and then a booster at 16 months. After that they have no more vaccinations.

Thanks CavNRott. ????

I think we might do every 3 years.

Not sure I want to risk never vaccinating again...

I agree that us humans should be vaccinated, so I think my dogs should be too. Only thing is that we aren't vaccinated annually, and the dog vaccine companies say there is no need, so why do dogs need annual vaccines supposedly?

[Starkehre]

From what I can see the DHP + intranasal KC and the C5 cover the same conditions (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and bordatella), they just use different variants of the parainfluenza and bordatella viruses so I would think whichever your vet chooses to use would be fine.

As far as frequency, agree you need to do the puppy ones and first adult booster. After that you have the option of triennial - I really think annual is over vaccinating these days - and if you ever put your dogs in kennels or if you want to join most training clubs they will require current vaccinations; or you can go with titre testing, which is becoming increasingly available. This is testing to see if your dog has antibodies against the various diseases and if it does vaccination isn't required and would in fact be useless.

Although like cavNrott many people don't continue to vaccinate adult dogs, especially older ones as chances are if they have been out and about walking around a normal amount they will have been exposed to the various diseases and have immunity anyway.

I personally do triennial basically for the sake of being able to show they are vaccinated if need be for the reasons mentioned above.

Thanks Simply Grand,

I'll have a speak to my vet about triennial. Possibly get them both done today then wait 3 years for next ones...

With C5, wouldn't that need to be annual though to cover KC?

No, only if you have the nasal spray done for the KC component. Finally the vets and reps are agreeing that the nasal spray is causing KC in too many dogs for it not to be a coincidence and are moving back to C5 all in one injection. They still do a C5 vac injection.

I'd never do the nasal spray again and have spoken at length to a wonderful vet about this.

[Starkehre]

From what I can see the DHP + intranasal KC and the C5 cover the same conditions (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and bordatella), they just use different variants of the parainfluenza and bordatella viruses so I would think whichever your vet chooses to use would be fine.

As far as frequency, agree you need to do the puppy ones and first adult booster. After that you have the option of triennial - I really think annual is over vaccinating these days - and if you ever put your dogs in kennels or if you want to join most training clubs they will require current vaccinations; or you can go with titre testing, which is becoming increasingly available. This is testing to see if your dog has antibodies against the various diseases and if it does vaccination isn't required and would in fact be useless.

Although like cavNrott many people don't continue to vaccinate adult dogs, especially older ones as chances are if they have been out and about walking around a normal amount they will have been exposed to the various diseases and have immunity anyway.

I personally do triennial basically for the sake of being able to show they are vaccinated if need be for the reasons mentioned above.

Thanks Simply Grand,

I'll have a speak to my vet about triennial. Possibly get them both done today then wait 3 years for next ones...

With C5, wouldn't that need to be annual though to cover KC?

No, only if you have the nasal spray done for the KC component. Finally the vets and reps are agreeing that the nasal spray is causing KC in too many dogs for it not to be a coincidence and are moving back to C5 all in one injection. They still do a C5 triennial vacc injection.

I'd never do the nasal spray again and have spoken at length to a wonderful vet about this.

[Scrappi&Monty]

From what I can see the DHP + intranasal KC and the C5 cover the same conditions (distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and bordatella), they just use different variants of the parainfluenza and bordatella viruses so I would think whichever your vet chooses to use would be fine.

As far as frequency, agree you need to do the puppy ones and first adult booster. After that you have the option of triennial - I really think annual is over vaccinating these days - and if you ever put your dogs in kennels or if you want to join most training clubs they will require current vaccinations; or you can go with titre testing, which is becoming increasingly available. This is testing to see if your dog has antibodies against the various diseases and if it does vaccination isn't required and would in fact be useless.

Although like cavNrott many people don't continue to vaccinate adult dogs, especially older ones as chances are if they have been out and about walking around a normal amount they will have been exposed to the various diseases and have immunity anyway.

I personally do triennial basically for the sake of being able to show they are vaccinated if need be for the reasons mentioned above.

Thanks Simply Grand,

I'll have a speak to my vet about triennial. Possibly get them both done today then wait 3 years for next ones...

With C5, wouldn't that need to be annual though to cover KC?

No, only if you have the nasal spray done for the KC component. Finally the vets and reps are agreeing that the nasal spray is causing KC in too many dogs for it not to be a coincidence and are moving back to C5 all in one injection. They still do a C5 vac injection.

I'd never do the nasal spray again and have spoken at length to a wonderful vet about this.

Thanks Starkehre, so is C5 ok to be done every three years and it will cover everything?

We have just always gone with the flow of what our vet does for Scrappi as we thought it was all the same, and Monty was done at the shelter. The RSPCA used Nobivac KC and DHP, KC is the intranasal one isn't it. So you don't reccomend that? So would it be ok to give him C5 instead, every 3 years?

What we were told was he needed his booster after a year and then I assume every 3 years as that's what the company says, but KC annually. Is there a nasal spray alternative in needle form?

Ahhh sorry for so many questions! Haha

[RiverStar-Aura]

It's a very complex issue to get your head around that's for sure. Triennial vaccinations will be your C3 (core 3) only which covers Parvovirus, Distemper and Hepatitis. You can have your dogs titre tested annually to check their resistance levels, which will indicate if re-vaccination is required.

Annually you'll be required to get the Kennel Cough component only, which can be given intra-nasally or subcut (under the skin). From my own research, the KC vaccine is not really a necessity due to the fact that KC is much like the human flu virus in which there a numerous strains and only some of them are covered with the vaccination.

Here's a link from DOGS NSW, which sums up what each of the vaccinations does.

[RiverStar-Aura]

No, only if you have the nasal spray done for the KC component. Finally the vets and reps are agreeing that the nasal spray is causing KC in too many dogs for it not to be a coincidence and are moving back to C5 all in one injection. They still do a C5 vac injection.

I'd never do the nasal spray again and have spoken at length to a wonderful vet about this.

It's interesting you've commented about the intra-nasal causing KC, Starkehre, because early Dec my dogs were given their annual KC only vax (subcut) and poor Kirah suffered a horrible reaction. The injection site swelled up and was radiating heat for about a week after. A visit to the fabulous Dr Jaime saw that she's actually done something to her shoulder area and I'm not sure if the KC injection flared something up, caused it or if it's just completely unrelated to the KC injection. Due to this, I was going to go back to having it administered intra-nasally, but now, I don't think I'll bother with it at all -- I never board my dogs anyway so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Scrappi&Monty]

No, only if you have the nasal spray done for the KC component. Finally the vets and reps are agreeing that the nasal spray is causing KC in too many dogs for it not to be a coincidence and are moving back to C5 all in one injection. They still do a C5 vac injection.

I'd never do the nasal spray again and have spoken at length to a wonderful vet about this.

It's interesting you've commented about the intra-nasal causing KC, Starkehre, because early Dec my dogs were given their annual KC only vax (subcut) and poor Kirah suffered a horrible reaction. The injection site swelled up and was radiating heat for about a week after. A visit to the fabulous Dr Jaime saw that she's actually done something to her shoulder area and I'm not sure if the KC injection flared something up, caused it or if it's just completely unrelated to the KC injection. Due to this, I was going to go back to having it administered intra-nasally, but now, I don't think I'll bother with it at all -- I never board my dogs anyway so it shouldn't be an issue.

I think we will stick with some form of Kennel Cough vaccine as we might as well, next door neighbor's dog had kennel cough a few months ago and he hadn't been kenneled or anything, probably caught it off a dog walking by (I suppose they can catch it from that?)

I'll speak to my vet this afternoon but as she's quite traditional she will probably want to stick with annual C5 (if that's what he usually has)

[Papillon Kisses]

Too much conflicting info.

My vet has always maintained that the intranasal is better if the dog can tolerate the delivery, especially if they are small.

And I was speaking to a vet a couple of weeks ago who said that the triennial vaccine is 3 x the strength of the annual and he'd only give it if the dog was, say, going bush for a few years and unlikely to have access to veterinary care. And this wasn't an annual vac pusher BTW, he suggested for Mal (10 yr ChiX, always had annuals, Addison's disease) to skip this year except for KC (do that yearly) and titre test by blood sample sent to a lab (not in house) next year. Other vets have told me it's the exact same vaccine as the annual one, just relabeled.

Even for titre testing there's diagreement. It only reveals one of the two types of immunity.

As for KC, sure it may only cover a couple of strands but so does the flu vaccine and Medicare covers that for the elderly and other areas-risk groups for a reason. They're more likely to die if that get it.

I want to get a vaccicheck done for some peace of mind (but that too has its opponents!) and also so I have a piece of paper for nose work classes. And still do KC component. I think.

Meanwhile Mal is overdue for his annual checkup and most likely dental but his vet is pro yearly vac so I'll get that convo again.

I wish they'd all just agree so I could be done with it. You want to do the right thing by your dog and get twelve different answers for what should surely be more simple.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Papillon Kisses

[Starkehre]

Too much conflicting info.

My vet has always maintained that the intranasal is better if the dog can tolerate the delivery, especially if they are small.

And I was speaking to a vet a couple of weeks ago who said that the triennial vaccine is 3 x the strength of the annual and he'd only give it if the dog was, say, going bush for a few years and unlikely to have access to veterinary care. And this wasn't an annual vac pusher BTW, he suggested for Mal (10 yr ChiX, always had annuals, Addison's disease) to skip this year except for KC (do that yearly) and titre test by blood sample sent to a lab (not in house) next year. Other vets have told me it's the exact same vaccine as the annual one, just relabeled.

Even for titre testing there's diagreement. It only reveals one of the two types of immunity.

As for KC, sure it may only cover a couple of strands but so does the flu vaccine and Medicare covers that for the elderly and other areas-risk groups for a reason. They're more likely to die if that get it.

I want to get a vaccicheck done for some peace of mind (but that too has its opponents!) and also so I have a piece of paper for nose work classes. And still do KC component. I think.

Meanwhile Mal is overdue for his annual checkup and most likely dental but his vet is pro yearly vac so I'll get that convo again.

I wish they'd all just agree so I could be done with it. You want to do the right thing by your dog and get twelve different answers for what should surely be more simple.

The triennial vac is the same as the annual, only listed and priced differently. It is the same vaccination. You are paying extra for the extra 2 years on your certificate that you do not have to return.

A lot of vets will say it is different cause they feel uncomfortable charging so much extra for the same vaccine.

[Scrappi&Monty]

Too much conflicting info.

My vet has always maintained that the intranasal is better if the dog can tolerate the delivery, especially if they are small.

And I was speaking to a vet a couple of weeks ago who said that the triennial vaccine is 3 x the strength of the annual and he'd only give it if the dog was, say, going bush for a few years and unlikely to have access to veterinary care. And this wasn't an annual vac pusher BTW, he suggested for Mal (10 yr ChiX, always had annuals, Addison's disease) to skip this year except for KC (do that yearly) and titre test by blood sample sent to a lab (not in house) next year. Other vets have told me it's the exact same vaccine as the annual one, just relabeled.

Even for titre testing there's diagreement. It only reveals one of the two types of immunity.

As for KC, sure it may only cover a couple of strands but so does the flu vaccine and Medicare covers that for the elderly and other areas-risk groups for a reason. They're more likely to die if that get it.

I want to get a vaccicheck done for some peace of mind (but that too has its opponents!) and also so I have a piece of paper for nose work classes. And still do KC component. I think.

Meanwhile Mal is overdue for his annual checkup and most likely dental but his vet is pro yearly vac so I'll get that convo again.

I wish they'd all just agree so I could be done with it. You want to do the right thing by your dog and get twelve different answers for what should surely be more simple.

I feel exactly the same way PK haha!

I feel like maybe we'll just do annuals like usual because that's easy and what our vet suggests, but then again I don't want to be over vaccinating which can lead to other problems. There's so much conflicting advice and I don't know who knows best.

Regardless of how often they are vaccinated I would still take them for annual checkups as it's best to be on the safe side and also I like our vet, she's lovely.

Does anyone know how much a titre test would cost (im in the Hunter Valley/Newcastle area) vs a standard annual vaccination vs a Nobivac DHP + KC?

[Scrappi&Monty]

Too much conflicting info.

My vet has always maintained that the intranasal is better if the dog can tolerate the delivery, especially if they are small.

And I was speaking to a vet a couple of weeks ago who said that the triennial vaccine is 3 x the strength of the annual and he'd only give it if the dog was, say, going bush for a few years and unlikely to have access to veterinary care. And this wasn't an annual vac pusher BTW, he suggested for Mal (10 yr ChiX, always had annuals, Addison's disease) to skip this year except for KC (do that yearly) and titre test by blood sample sent to a lab (not in house) next year. Other vets have told me it's the exact same vaccine as the annual one, just relabeled.

Even for titre testing there's diagreement. It only reveals one of the two types of immunity.

As for KC, sure it may only cover a couple of strands but so does the flu vaccine and Medicare covers that for the elderly and other areas-risk groups for a reason. They're more likely to die if that get it.

I want to get a vaccicheck done for some peace of mind (but that too has its opponents!) and also so I have a piece of paper for nose work classes. And still do KC component. I think.

Meanwhile Mal is overdue for his annual checkup and most likely dental but his vet is pro yearly vac so I'll get that convo again.

I wish they'd all just agree so I could be done with it. You want to do the right thing by your dog and get twelve different answers for what should surely be more simple.

The triennial vac is the same as the annual, only listed and priced differently. It is the same vaccination. You are paying extra for the extra 2 years on your certificate that you do not have to return.

A lot of vets will say it is different cause they feel uncomfortable charging so much extra for the same vaccine.

Hmm that sorta makes sense. Do you reckon we could just vaccinate and not ask for them to be vaccinated for a few years? Scrappi was supposed to be done in Nov 16 but we thought we'd wait until Monty needed his too.

We've never even had a vaccination certificate nor really needed it. We don't board as they can stay at a family members, and we won't be doing training classes for a while until Monty learns to calm down and we get on top of his occasional/selective dog reactivity. But that's another story.

[Pjrt]

http://www.ava.com.au/about-us/policy-and-positions/topics/veterinary-medicines

Here's what the AVA have to say. Use the links in the text.

It irks me that so many vets just seem to just go with the outdated protocols if no challenge is given by the owner.

Personally I do puppy vacs, and used to think yep, the first annual booster, but now I'm really not sure if that's even necessary. If I got a new puppy I think I'd titre for the first booster to see if it's really necessary. I don't do canine cough at all. I'd certainly not do heartworn injection either. I chose to not treat for heartworn at all but luckily in a low risk zone.

[Scrappi&Monty]

http://www.ava.com.au/about-us/policy-and-positions/topics/veterinary-medicines

Here's what the AVA have to say. Use the links in the text.

It irks me that so many vets just seem to just go with the outdated protocols if no challenge is given by the owner.

Personally I do puppy vacs, and used to think yep, the first annual booster, but now I'm really not sure if that's even necessary. If I got a new puppy I think I'd titre for the first booster to see if it's really necessary. I don't do canine cough at all. I'd certainly not do heartworn injection either. I chose to not treat for heartworn at all but luckily in a low risk zone.

Thanks for the AVA link, that's what I was looking for the other day but I couldn't remember. We don't do heartworm injections, it's included in their worm meds. Don't want to risk it.

[rubiton]

The three year one is slightly different to the annual one. Our old dog use to have a huge reaction to the annual one and when the three year one was available she didnt develop the huge lump - its different. But you still need to have the annual kennel cough one done.

Please talk to your vet not online or google in regard to which suits your dog best.

[Scrappi&Monty]

The three year one is slightly different to the annual one. Our old dog use to have a huge reaction to the annual one and when the three year one was available she didnt develop the huge lump - its different. But you still need to have the annual kennel cough one done.

Please talk to your vet not online or google in regard to which suits your dog best.

Thanks Rubiton, just wanted to get an idea of what everyone's opinions were. I didn't discuss it this time with my vet, she already had the vaccines ready and Monty did need his booster as he is 1yo. But we might talk to her at next checkup about not doing it annually.

[Flashsmum]

Whatever you decide, make sure you get the parvo vac.  

 

There is an outbreak on the south coast of NSW which has hit a lot of dogs.  They did a mass vaccination last week, and about 1000 - 1500 turned up to get their dogs vaccinated.  So many have not been able to recover, and it's sad that for the want of a vaccination, poor dogs have suffered and then died. 

 

Please titre test for immunity, or get the vaccination done.