Scrappi&Monty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) I thought this was worth sharing as some people on here strongly believe in dominance based training still... I know the video by Dr Mech (the man who invented/published the Pack theory) was made in 2008 so not new to most of us, but as the book is still in circulation and I know a lot of the general public still only really know about the dominance kind of training that "you have to be alpha and the boss". Edited January 5, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 but this particular video is new. Does it add any new information apart from the words of an enthusiastic kid in his bedroom? New studies? Wolves and dingos and other dogs - do sometimes work together in packs when there are enough food resources to sustain them but they're mostly packs of family groups - not random strangers. At the park, and beach - I have noticed that my dog has her "special friends" that she greets enthusiastically and will protect when threatened. Hence you can get one "rude" dog being ganged up on by all the friends protecting each other. But that's just my observations not a scientific study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Think perhaps the title of this topic is not actually accurate. This guy is actually a bit of a dick... he obviously thinks he is onto something new... which anyone involved in training in at least the last 10 years has already re-hashed this topic..... After all Dr Mech actually is debunking the use of the term 'alpha' - rather than just dismissing the term of pack - after all a pack is just a collective term for a group of canine. Sad to think that the future of dog training may well be left to guys like this..... who thinks that anything from the past is a lie.... (and that is quoting him) Edited January 4, 2017 by alpha bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappi&Monty Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 but this particular video is new. Does it add any new information apart from the words of an enthusiastic kid in his bedroom? New studies? Wolves and dingos and other dogs - do sometimes work together in packs when there are enough food resources to sustain them but they're mostly packs of family groups - not random strangers. At the park, and beach - I have noticed that my dog has her "special friends" that she greets enthusiastically and will protect when threatened. Hence you can get one "rude" dog being ganged up on by all the friends protecting each other. But that's just my observations not a scientific study. I know it doesnt add anything but I had never seen the original video before (also never really followed that whole dominance/pack thing anyway) but thought some might be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappi&Monty Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Think perhaps the title of this topic is not actually accurate. This guy is actually a bit of a dick... he obviously thinks he is onto something new... which anyone involved in training in at least the last 10 years has already re-hashed this topic..... After all Dr Mech actually is debunking the use of the term 'alpha' - rather than just dismissing the term of pack - after all a pack is just a collective term for a group of canine. Sad to think that the future of dog training may well be left to guys like this..... who thinks that anything from the past is a lie.... (and that is quoting him) Yeah he is a bit of a dick, I've seen some of his other videos and he needs to start acting maturely and stop acting like he knows everything. You don't learn if you have an attitude like that and an open mind! Saw his interview with Grisha Stewart and he was acting a bit disrespectfully despite having somewhat similar views. So I disagree with some of what he says but I hadn't seen the video by that Dr who published the original theory. Not everything commonly believed in the past is a lie, but it isn't necessarily true either as science/psychology/ethics/morals and trends are all developing and changing, that's how the world works. So commonly believed scientific knowledge or common practices are sometimes improved upon or retracted like this one. Also don't be so pessimistic about the future of dog training, there are many young trainers who are brilliant at what they do. I am interested in training, not sure about becoming a professional one myself but it's something I definitely want to get into more once I've finished my studies/work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappi&Monty Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Edit Edited January 4, 2017 by Scrappi&Monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If you want something a little bit better quality... Podcast Tim Ferriss (4 hour work week book) and Susan Garrett - on dog training. http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/11/14/susan-garrett/ Susan Garrett - follows methods developed by Bob and Marion Bailey and their stuff is based on Skinner and Pavlov. Zoo training of animals is way ahead of many dog training environments... Glad you're catching up, Scrappi and Monty. The stuff is definitely new to a lot of people - especially the David Mech stuff. But I would just share his video - not some pirate version of it. Ie this. And if you want some more recent research on Wolf behaviour... Shawn Ellis is really interesting. http://www.felixho.be/en/canineSquad/wolf_1.html http://www.felixho.be/en/canineSquad/wolf_2.html and before him - Farley Mowat went out and lived with wolves and what he described - is probably more accurate than the debunked stuff that Cesar Milan follows. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Cry_Wolf Note - the book is way better and non fiction than the movie. I read it in the mid 70s, and it's taken a long time for the humans to stop trying to exterminate the wolves and give them back some habitat. This may also help with your enlightenment http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dumbed-down-dominance-part-1 http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dumbed-down-dominance-part-2-change-your-dominant-thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Wow, the "Pawfessor's" reasoning is totally specious and he is really cherry picking what Dr Mech says in his video. Unfortunately I think he is undermining the cause of modern science based training with that video =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Unfortunately I think he is undermining the cause of modern science based training with that video At least he's not doing what most teenage boys do alone in their bedrooms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Unfortunately I think he is undermining the cause of modern science based training with that video At least he's not doing what most teenage boys do alone in their bedrooms... Hehehe, true! Good on him for his passion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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