How Do I Play With My Amstaff X Puppy?

[frazz]

My partner picked out an Amstaff X puppy thinking he would be like a staffy a friend had (and I guess at that stage not knowing they are completely different breeds). I've had smaller dogs in the past as a kid but was happier to go with a bigger dog (and this breed in particular) as I felt an adventurous, robust, loyal dog would fit well into our lives. I'm finding it hard to work out how to play with this puppy. He's making it clear he wants my attention but when I go to play with him he either takes the toy we're playing with away from me (to another part of the yard or house), or if we're playing chase (him chase me) or tug-o-war, he gets over-excited and ends the game by biting, scratching and hurting me.

He is teething and wants to bite on things all the time. We have provided chew toys which he doesn't touch unless we start playing with them with him (example, wave the toy around and squeek it). We have provided a kong which he has no interest in no matter what food we put in it. He likes to press his gums up against the steel bars of his pen (whether he is inside or outside of it). He tries to chew a lot of things but the only things he's interested in chewing on, that are his to chew on, are a bully stick and pigs ear. When our play time ends up in bite and hurt time, and I can't stop him with the "no" command (which he is slowly accepting for other behaviours), I put the bully stick or pig's ear in his mouth to redirect his attention. However, he only chews it for a short time before he comes back up to me and is nuzzling against my leg for attention.

When I'm not playing with him (and he's not sleeping) he spends a lot of time going around the house or yard to find things that aren't his to tug or chew on. Given he also takes toys away from me it sometimes seems like he wants to play by himself but there's nothing stimulating enough for him. He has been to puppy preschool and has met some adult dogs and I feel like those days have been the only ones he's seemed truly contented. We can't afford a second dog and I'm not sure what to do as playing with his humans doesn't seem to be satisfying him.

Edited November 29, 2016 by frazz

[Roova]

If he's looking to amuse himself in ways you don't like maybe take a look at this site for multiple video's covering puppy training tips on this site?

He might be looking for cold or hard things to chew on as well?. Have you tried large meaty bones? A facewasher dipped in stock, twisted and frozen? His food frozen in a kong?

His food frozen in a large ice cue (along with vegies and other things).

If he's looking to rip and tear you could try putting his meals in boxes and taping them up. Once he gets the jist you can put boxes in boxes.

You could try some kibble in an empty soft drink bottle (no lid) and let him play with it.

Definitely any animals likes interactive games over toys which don't move so you'll always be the most interesting thing to play with (if there isn't another dog to take his attention of course).

Training is a great way to keep an active little mind busy too and help creates a great adult dog.

Even trick training is great fun for both parties :)

[karen15]

I didn't have an Amstaff, but a normal staffy. As a pup, he'd growl when we played - normal for staffies, they seem to be vocal players. If he got rough, growled, scratched I'd immediately stop, stand up and walk off. A few minutes later I'd ask him to play again. Repeat at first inappropriate act. They are very smart and quickly associate their actions with the play stopping. As they love playing with people I found mine kerbed his behaviour pretty quickly.

I would not be giving him a treat after inappropriate play. The consequence of going too far is no play. No rousing, no trouble, just no play.

I found my staffy learned really well at meal time. After sit, stay he was taught leave it, which meant he wasn't to touch whatever it was. That can be moved to play. If you want to pick up a toy to initiate play, you can direct the dog to leave it. His reward is a game. As mine got more obedient, mid game I'd ask him to drop and leave whatever we were playing with. The point of that was to train him to let go of something when he was in an excited state, which I think is important for dogs with a strong bite.

One of my guys favourite toys was a heavy tuggie rope. Excellent for tug, knots on ends for good grip, and he loved chewing on it by himself. Would take a year or two for him to destroy one. Excellent toys.

One of the best training things I ever learned is that "no" is not a command. How can you reward no? No what? No don't pant, no don't wag your tail etc. Substituting a command instead of no gives a much clearer direction. Leave it applies to food, to toys, but also if the dog shows interest in eg a cat and you say leave it followed by heel, the dog should leave the object (ie cat) and return to heel. Training the two together gets you an auto heel immediately after leave it. Very helpful for keeping control.

[frazz]

If he's looking to amuse himself in ways you don't like maybe take a look at this site for multiple video's covering puppy training tips on this site?

He might be looking for cold or hard things to chew on as well?. Have you tried large meaty bones? A facewasher dipped in stock, twisted and frozen? His food frozen in a kong?

His food frozen in a large ice cue (along with vegies and other things).

If he's looking to rip and tear you could try putting his meals in boxes and taping them up. Once he gets the jist you can put boxes in boxes.

You could try some kibble in an empty soft drink bottle (no lid) and let him play with it.

Definitely any animals likes interactive games over toys which don't move so you'll always be the most interesting thing to play with (if there isn't another dog to take his attention of course).

Training is a great way to keep an active little mind busy too and help creates a great adult dog.

Even trick training is great fun for both parties :)

Thanks Roova. I will take a look at the videos. I feel out of my depth and am looking at a lot of resources online. I took your suggestion and have made some icecubes with meat and stock and will see how he goes with them tomorrow as to whether it's worth making more and perhaps some much larger frozen treats to keep him going longer. I have tried kibble in a bottle and he liked to chase the bottle but not try to get the kibble out - it's been similar with the kong as he'll chew it for a little while but won't try to get the treats out. I'm wondering if he has trouble smelling food and doesn't realise there are hidden treats but we're seeing a vet soon so will ask them about that.

We are working on some basic training commands some he has picked up really quickly. I do find it hard to time training for a time when he can focus as he seems to swing between sleepy tired and over-excited.

[frazz]

I didn't have an Amstaff, but a normal staffy. As a pup, he'd growl when we played - normal for staffies, they seem to be vocal players. If he got rough, growled, scratched I'd immediately stop, stand up and walk off. A few minutes later I'd ask him to play again. Repeat at first inappropriate act. They are very smart and quickly associate their actions with the play stopping. As they love playing with people I found mine kerbed his behaviour pretty quickly.

I would not be giving him a treat after inappropriate play. The consequence of going too far is no play. No rousing, no trouble, just no play.

I found my staffy learned really well at meal time. After sit, stay he was taught leave it, which meant he wasn't to touch whatever it was. That can be moved to play. If you want to pick up a toy to initiate play, you can direct the dog to leave it. His reward is a game. As mine got more obedient, mid game I'd ask him to drop and leave whatever we were playing with. The point of that was to train him to let go of something when he was in an excited state, which I think is important for dogs with a strong bite.

One of my guys favourite toys was a heavy tuggie rope. Excellent for tug, knots on ends for good grip, and he loved chewing on it by himself. Would take a year or two for him to destroy one. Excellent toys.

One of the best training things I ever learned is that "no" is not a command. How can you reward no? No what? No don't pant, no don't wag your tail etc. Substituting a command instead of no gives a much clearer direction. Leave it applies to food, to toys, but also if the dog shows interest in eg a cat and you say leave it followed by heel, the dog should leave the object (ie cat) and return to heel. Training the two together gets you an auto heel immediately after leave it. Very helpful for keeping control.

Thanks for your reply Karen - it's good to hear from someone who has faced similar behaviour challenges.

Can you please elaborate more on the walking away from inappropriately rough play? Do you walk away a couple of metres, to another room if in the house, into the house if in the back yard? I do try to move away from him often but then he starts giving chase biting ankles/heels/toes - he just goes after anything that moves so it's hard to walk away from him seeing as he's following me and bringing the behaviour with him. After the walk away, how do you invite them to play again?

Thank you for bringing up "no" not being a command. That was what I initially thought too. We had decided to do positive reinforcement training and I couldn't see anything positive in that. However, when my partner took the puppy to preschool that is what the trainers said to do along with tugging on the collar for unwanted behaviours. Given a trainer gave that direction I thought I must have been wrong. Seeing as he has learnt to sit very nicely I have also been trying to tell him to sit when he does something I don't want him to do and it does temporarily snap him out of whatever he was doing. I do think it works better than "no". I actually don't think he's up to the point of having any real desire to please us so knowing he's displeasing us is probably not very compelling for him anyway. Maybe the things he is giving up on on a "no" (like chewing on/stealing shoes) is just losing it's appeal rather than the "no" command having any effect. I have tried tugging the collar as per the trainer's instructions but I don't think it means anything to him (other than annoying him) and I don't like doing it. I will try working on other commands as you've suggested.

[karen15]

I did training before food, as it was put down, as that was when we were most focussed. It would be quite literally 5 seconds, the reward being dinner. Started with sit, which just had to be bottom on ground, food given immediately. Then he had to sit longer. Then he was given sit, followed by stay. Then, as he knew he had to sit and stay before food, I started leave it. So I'd put his food down, he would repeat his sit stay pattern, but by doing so would be leaving his dinner until given his release word "ok". High praise for the right thing.

With the play, I would drop the toy, stand up and walk off. Didn't really matter where to. I don't remember ankle biting, that sounds like herding to me, but might be an amstaff thing, I've no idea. If he's small enough, just sit on the couch and tuck your feet up. Once settled, get a toy he likes and wiggle or squeak it at him and entice him to play. Watch him and before he gets rough, end the play with good boy, a big pat and a treat he really likes, like a pigs ear.

The reason I don't use no is you can give them a reward for doing what you ask, like sit. As soon as he sits, you can say good dog, call him over, do something you want him to do and voila, the bad behaviour has stopped.

I'm not a dog trainer. My staffy was my first dog and he was beautiful. I don't agree with tugging on collars. I don't see the point. I prefer to tell them what I want them to do, that way they can always get it right.

Funnily enough, all my pets know my indignant"Excuse me!" Which means they have not done the right things. It generally gets met with a look of guilt, followed by doing what they're asked. I must do the combination without realising it as even the horses know it LOL

Edited November 29, 2016 by karen15

[persephone]

have I missed how old this pup is ?

[persephone]

Oh ..and what bones does this pup get to chew ? I bet a nice frozen chicken carcass or frozen whole turkey neck would keep him busy ;) ( and feed him at the same time !

One game I would teach asap is the 'swap' , or 'gimme' game .

I use this a lot.

puppy is given/picks up a toy - NOT a bone or deer antler /whatever .

You have a treat in your hand .. make sure he sees/smells it ,and use whichever word you like to IMMEDIATELY replace the toy he drops with the treat . Pick up the toy..and play with him ..happy, happy :)

repeat, repeat, repeat ....ONLY when he has something in his mouth.

Later on ....it should mean that he will reconsider stuff he has picked up , whether it be a shoe, or a dead lizard :)

[Tassie]

Quite the challenge .. but good for you for looking for positive reinforcement ways to train your big pup. You've had some great advice.

I would probably add that you might consider using a crate or play pen (sturdy one) to make it easy for your pup to have down time .. that would be a place where he could have his frozen bones - provided you're sure he's safe with them. Trained the same way as everything else .. show the pup that there's great value for him in being in/going in his 'den'. It means then he's not finding self-reinforcement roaming the house finding things you don't want him to chew.

A couple of thoughts .. although sometimes it may look as though dogs may be going 'good' things to please us .. the reality is that it's probably better to assume that the dog is doing behaviours which will bring pleasure to him. SO we use that, to build value for behaviours we want by rewarding him heavily with things he wants. That includes building value for doing 'stuff' with us .. and voila .. you have that lovely picture of a dog and handler enjoying 'working' together. All built up over time, by a mixture of showing the dog how to earn rewards, rewarding what we do want, either ignoring or managing what we don't want, rinse and repeat.

Shame about the trainer saying to use "No". IMHO, your understanding was completely correct .. the word gives no information to the pup .. and even if pup does understand it means, don't do something .. pup is doing several things at any time // including breathing. KI do use interrupt noises .. like u-uh - pretty much immediately followed by a redirection .. showing the pup what you would like .. so interrupt chewing on forbidden thing, then redirect pup to allowed object. and yes, good to play a little to get him switched on to that.

And as far as the collar grab is concerned .. I wonder if the trainer was teaching the 'collar grab' game .. I call it the gotcha game ... which progressively rewards the pup for allowing humans to touch, and eventually grab the collar. It's not done in anger or correction, but just desensitises pup to having the collar taken .. that can be a safety thing .. and it can also mean we can use a gentle collar touch to remind our trained dog that he needs to refocus.

And do we get a photo of said puppy? :D

[Pepperotti]

I guess it's fairly normal for most pups to 'mouth' or even bite but while they're young, it's a good time to teach them what is acceptable and what is not while they don't have the power in their jaws, granted the puppy teeth seems so sharp!

Do you have children?

Something I've taught our Rottweiler (from a young age) is that rough play is ok, but the word I use for Pepper when she might get a bit too rough is 'OUCH!' as whether it's a family child, visiting child or any adult, I guessed that most ppl's reaction to a dog biting them (playing or otherwise) is most ppl are likely to say OUCH! That's the word I want her to associate with to STOP playing again esp with children or strangers.

I'd also put on a bit of an act, like a fake cry or be upset (not angry), lie on the floor, telling her 'That was not gentle Pepper!' > nowadays and at age 4, if anyone says OUCH she stops playing immediately.

While I am playing with her, I quite often change the 'focus' and get her to sit, re-focus and shake hands or something that isn't so rough and then stop the rough play altogether. Changing a dogs focus is quite easy.

Funnily enough, when I ask her to lay on her bed and she just lays on the floor I might say 'Pepper that is NOT your bed' and she will get up and go and lay down on her bed. So saying 'that was NOT gentle' I believe she understands this as well.

When we do play rough games with her, I'll let Pepper "win" frequently....ie: I will let her mouth my hand during rough play. RATHER than continuing to wind her up and up and up as I figure if she doesn't 'win' she might escalate until she has won or gotten too rough.

Animals quite often use their mouths as we might our hands. Ever heard of the saying 'You scratch my back and I"ll scratch yours;'? I thought that came from horses when they scratch each others withers with their mouths. I sorta see dogs in a similar way when they're mouthing but that's different to aggressive biting. They need to understand how hard they can 'mouth' when playing and it's best to start that as early as possible and also helps develop the bond with new puppy

Considering I have 5 young kids around my dog I've taken the approach that since kids do random things, I have to train her what is an acceptable response. Kids might go to pat her while she's eating (rightly or wrongly) which is in part training kids too but also a safety mechanism for a child who visits who does not have experience around dogs.

Caveat:

I'm no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt and i'm open to advice or critique if I am doing the wrong thing! That said, I'm now 39, had Rotti's (dangerous dogs they are! hahahaha) since I was 8 and not once with any of them have I had any kind of serious bite that required any kind of attention even with pretty full on rough play.

[juice]

I have always owned bull breeds and i find they like the shred and tear stuff. Plastic bottles, cardboard boxes, frozen ice blocks ( icecream container) with oxo dissolved in.

They also love a good game of tug.

I gave mine a marrow bone last week for the first time, she didn't stop for 6 straight hours! eventually i took it off her to take her for a walk and popped it in the freezer, it lasted 3 days solid :laugh:

[karen15]

Marrow bones are brilliant. My staffy would also chew on them for ages.

[Papillon Kisses]

If you're looking for something to chew perhaps deer antlers? Not sure if ok for puppies though.