Gretel Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Of an evening the dogs have been going feral trying to get to something on the top of the fence. I suspected rats and have just found a LOT of rat poo in the shed that is near the fence. There is no food in the shed. I'm hesitant to use poison because of the dogs. Just googling and I came across Racumin which states dead rodents carry less residue of the poison so is less likely to harm them if they get a carcass. Any info or suggestions welcome. I like pet ratties but these sort freak me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) I have been using the BIG CHEESE brand of rodenticide very happily for some years now .... :) Edited November 24, 2016 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 I have been using the BIG CHEESE brand of rodenticide very happily for some years now .... :) Thanks so much :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Zoos use Racumin... doesn't tend to kill up the food chain... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I have been using the BIG CHEESE brand of rodenticide very happily for some years now .... :) I know that looks to be a wide safety margin, but am I the only one who thinks it's weird that it's not written per kg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I have been using the BIG CHEESE brand of rodenticide very happily for some years now .... :) I know that looks to be a wide safety margin, but am I the only one who thinks it's weird that it's not written per kg? Found this ..does that help ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 Zoos use Racumin... doesn't tend to kill up the food chain... T. Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Even more confusing! :laugh: It seems it's not just calculated on weight. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Even more confusing! :laugh: It seems it's not just calculated on weight. :) I guess different species metabolise things differently .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) Even more confusing! :laugh: It seems it's not just calculated on weight. :) I guess different species metabolise things differently .... Just to throw another spanner in the works, our VB mentioned that small dogs tend to metabolise some types of medication differently to larger dogs. I think it was faster. (Malcolm as he's wont to do seems to operate in the reverse.) Anyway, hope you work out a solution Gretel! Edited November 24, 2016 by Papillon Kisses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) I've recently had trouble with mice getting into the kitchen in the old house I'm renting at the moment. Tried to use peppermint oil which helped but didn't solve the problem. In the end I had to get the professionals in who used pet safe baits containing brodifacom paste. No I didn't like it but I wasn't prepared to use traps either. Problem seems to be under control at the moment . So much for having terriers! Edited November 25, 2016 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I've recently had trouble with mice getting into the kitchen in the old house I'm renting at the moment. Tried to use peppermint oil which helped but didn't solve the problem. In the end I had to get the professionals in who used pet safe baits containing brodifacom paste. No I didn't like it but I wasn't prepared to use traps either. Problem seems to be under control at the moment . So much for having terriers! the baits may be pet safe as in where they are situated ..but the chemical is not one of the ones I would consider ...Here is a diagram showing how many G g/kg is needed for a lethal dose . Using that diagram .. a 10 kg dog would need to eat 50 grams of Brodifacoum but kilograms of Difenacoum . it is always such a balancing act ... and one gets very creative as to where one puts bait ..so animals/little humans can't get to it - but where the mice will naturally find it .... It is always a challenge !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 There are battery operated 'Rat Zappers' that are very effective and safe to use around dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 There are battery operated 'Rat Zappers' that are very effective and safe to use around dogs yes!! They go thru batteries fairly fast though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) I've recently had trouble with mice getting into the kitchen in the old house I'm renting at the moment. Tried to use peppermint oil which helped but didn't solve the problem. In the end I had to get the professionals in who used pet safe baits containing brodifacom paste. No I didn't like it but I wasn't prepared to use traps either. Problem seems to be under control at the moment . So much for having terriers! the baits may be pet safe as in where they are situated ..but the chemical is not one of the ones I would consider ...Here is a diagram showing how many G g/kg is needed for a lethal dose . Using that diagram .. a 10 kg dog would need to eat 50 grams of Brodifacoum but kilograms of Difenacoum . it is always such a balancing act ... and one gets very creative as to where one puts bait ..so animals/little humans can't get to it - but where the mice will naturally find it .... It is always a challenge !! Thanks Perse - yes it is a balancing act. Luckily for me the main spots for these baits which are enclosed so 2- leggeds and 4 leggeds can't get to the bait paste - is in firmly closed cupboards in the kitchen. The only advantage that I could find is that the brodifacoum is very effective and kills the buggers more quickly than the other options - which is why the professionals use it. And I certainly had a real problem that if I didn't get control of was going to spread to the rest of the house. I feel sorry for the meeces - but the moment their constant overnight partying kept me awake their days were numbered! Edited November 25, 2016 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 There are battery operated 'Rat Zappers' that are very effective and safe to use around dogs Oh I've not seen those. I went to Bunnings and bought some Big Cheese bait yesterday. They had plug in thingies but there's no power in the shed so no use. Where do you get the battery ones? Apparently there was a party in the shed in the evening. I heard a noise quite early and Vienna was quite agitated several times. I'm a bit scared to look in there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 There are battery operated 'Rat Zappers' that are very effective and safe to use around dogs Oh I've not seen those. I went to Bunnings and bought some Big Cheese bait yesterday. They had plug in thingies but there's no power in the shed so no use. Where do you get the battery ones? Apparently there was a party in the shed in the evening. I heard a noise quite early and Vienna was quite agitated several times. I'm a bit scared to look in there..... just google "electronic rat zapper" there are many types /brands ... The one we have certainly works on mice ... and apart from a slight smell of singed fur, and the disposal of dead things, is ok for the odd visitor ... for a houseful , bait would be a better choice , I think ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I've recently had trouble with mice getting into the kitchen in the old house I'm renting at the moment. Tried to use peppermint oil which helped but didn't solve the problem. In the end I had to get the professionals in who used pet safe baits containing brodifacom paste. No I didn't like it but I wasn't prepared to use traps either. Problem seems to be under control at the moment . So much for having terriers! the baits may be pet safe as in where they are situated ..but the chemical is not one of the ones I would consider ...Here is a diagram showing how many G g/kg is needed for a lethal dose . Using that diagram .. a 10 kg dog would need to eat 50 grams of Brodifacoum but kilograms of Difenacoum . it is always such a balancing act ... and one gets very creative as to where one puts bait ..so animals/little humans can't get to it - but where the mice will naturally find it .... It is always a challenge !! Thanks Perse - yes it is a balancing act. Luckily for me the main spots for these baits which are enclosed so 2- leggeds and 4 leggeds can't get to the bait paste - is in firmly closed cupboards in the kitchen. The only advantage that I could find is that the brodifacoum is very effective and kills the buggers more quickly than the other options - which is why the professionals use it. And I certainly had a real problem that if I didn't get control of was going to spread to the rest of the house. I feel sorry for the meeces - but the moment their constant overnight partying kept me awake their days were numbered! know the feeling! We have bait out continuously these days ..in teh hope that very few mice = low numbers/no snakes around buildings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Even more confusing! :laugh: It seems it's not just calculated on weight. :) I guess different species metabolise things differently .... Just to throw another spanner in the works, our VB mentioned that small dogs tend to metabolise some types of medication differently to larger dogs. I think it was faster. (Malcolm as he's wont to do seems to operate in the reverse.) Anyway, hope you work out a solution Gretel! [Mass in grams]0.75/[Mass in grams] So, 20kg dog = 0.0840 5kg dog = 0.1189 Converting glucose into ATP produces heat energy, which will speed up other reactions. SA:V ratio in smaller dogs is quite high, even more so in breeds with more surface such as IGs, which is why they get cold quite easily. They're efficient at producing heat but also very efficient at losing it. What the above means is that theoretically, the smaller animal will metabolise things more efficiently so dosage per kg has to be calculated taking that into account. A 70kg mastiff is going to metabolise at a reduced rate compared to a 5kg IG so we can't just say "Well, this was tested with 15kg dogs to be this amount so we'll just apply those numbers upwards and downward per kg" because it doesn't necessarily work. To give you an example.. Bosley's calculated per/kg dose of KBr was 800mg/day, as calculated by a vet, based on just mg/body weight. This didn't take into account Na intake or MSMR and the result was a dog who was so doped up that he could barely walk. My own calculation was 300mg/day but even that was still too high and we had him at 200mg for quite a long time. That dose controlled his seizures acceptably and had fairly minimal side effects. It's hugely different though from the dose rate calculated from just an average worked out that tries to cover every breed, shape and size of dog out there. Back on topic.. Ratties are creatures of habit and don't like disturbances or changes. Clearing out the shed would be a good idea, as well at taking away anything that leans or sits up against the walls in there, as they create safe little corridors for ratties to travel along. Take away anything that could be used as nesting material (cardboard boxes, rags, newspapers, etc) and store all smaller items in those plastic storage tubs with lids- the sort you can get at places like Kmart or Bunnings. Also, don't leave uneaten bones outside because rats will eat these and can lift much heavier loads than you'd guess from looking at them. The above won't kill the rats but they will likely decide to set up camp somewhere more suitable. Baits can work but if the drawcard remains, new ratties will move in soon enough anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Bunnings have battery operated mouse zappers. Not sure about rat zappers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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