Advice On Choosing A Breeder

[dotdashdot]

Hi all, this question is not for myself, but my sister (who i've brought to the light side of reputable breeders and registered dogs)

she's after a black lab girl, our old girl (as in family dog) passed away in January and she now wants her own lab. She's been talking to some local breeders and had just about narrowed it down but then had contacted some further afield due to an issue with one pup that was on the ground at the local breeder she had chosen, and is now confused again.

The issue with the local pup is, I dare say, minor and not a problem with the breeder's dogs but my sister and I both agreed not to go with that pup as her current old boy is suffering hip issues and she couldn't stand the possibility of a new pup having issues from a young age again.

This other breeder that's she contacted has given her some (good) advice and advised her to do some research on hip and elbow scores etc. Dogs of his breeding have scores of 0 while this local breeder's have about the breed average of 9.

Now, I know that health testing, while fantastic, is not a guarantee and even a pup with health tested parents can develop issues.

My sister is now getting quite upset, and overwhelmed, with information. She's asking what I would do, but now i'm getting confused too (probably because I'm not the actual one speaking to the breeders, but hearing second hand)

I think that I would stick with the local breeder, despite her scores being higher than the guy who's further afield. She has been transparent about everything and for me, having a good breeder relationship is important. (I also know the breeder as she is a customer of mine)

I know I probably haven't written everything possible about this situation but does this sound reasonable?

[mita]

This other breeder that's she contacted has given her some (good) advice and advised her to do some research on hip and elbow scores etc. Dogs of his breeding have scores of 0 while this local breeder's have about the breed average of 9.

Now, I know that health testing, while fantastic, is not a guarantee and even a pup with health tested parents can develop issues.

Speaking only for myself, I'd always go for the registered breeders who are on top of the health issues that may be more common in the breed. Even tho', due to factors beyond control, there's no 100% guarantee. However, what breeders like that do, is reduce risk by much longer way.

The second thing I look for from such a breeder, is the degree to which his/her parent dogs & puppies are socialised with human beings and with as many aspects of everyday life as possible. That early socialisation of puppies actually lays down neurological pathways that reduce risk of high anxiety or fear aggression later.

If a breeder who ticks both, is not local, but more distant.... I'll still go for them. With all our modern means of communication, it's easier these days to sustain a relationship with the breeder.

I'm looking at my 16 1/2 year old Tibbie who just had her annual vet check... which showed her in great nick for her age. No arthritis, as agile as ever, teeth good, not one single thing she needs any treatment or monitoring for. She's a bit deaf, but amazingly there's a miracle when the word 'Dinner!' is mentioned. :) As always, she's very social & affectionate with people.

Even tho' we're in Qld, she came from a superb registered breeder in NSW.... who ticked both those boxes admirably. Keeping in touch was no problem and was welcomed.

You have to make your decision based on your circumstances. Good on you for putting so much thought into it.

Edited November 24, 2016 by mita

[Tassie]

Hopefully some of the lab people will be along with more specific information .. but in general .. Since HD is not just the result of single genes, but polygenetic and significantly environmental as well, it would be useful if your sister could get some information from the breeders about familial scores and experience .. parent's siblings, other pups the breeder has bred .. etc. etc. rather than just concentrating on the parents' scores.

Also, as I understand it, while the total score is relevant, (hips and elbows), of significance too is the way that score has been arrived at .. e.g. if the 9 is 4:5, with pretty much even points all the way down the list, that is a much less worrying score than if it were 8:1.

And just to confuse the issue even more, it is certainly possible to have problems in pups from 0 score parents .. A friend's pup (from 0 scored parents) had to have surgery on his elbow before 12 months. My suspicion is that was partly environmental .. too much weight and too much racing round. The good news in that case was that the breeder significantly contributed to the cost of the corrective surgery, even though of course they didn't have to.

And I totally agree that the way the pups have been raised, and the relationship your sister would be likely to be able to build with the breeder is very important.

[Roova]

It might be worth getting your sister take a look at this chart on recommended exercise for pups? I think its just awesome!

Exercise chart

Avoiding inappropriate exercise will also help avoid muscle and ligament damage through overuse before growth plates close over.

[dotdashdot]

Thanks guys. I've just told her to ask about socialisation, and she's let me know that she likely won't go with the local breeder after chatting with the other couple of guys. I always fear that it's just scaremongering when a breeder talks badly about another but some things ring alarm bells for me too.

I also told her last night that HD is very much not 100% genetic and environmental factors can play a part. She'll be getting a run down on appropriate exercise from me for sure, although that chart is excellent Roova! I need that for my puppy pre school

[persephone]

It might be worth getting your sister take a look at this chart on recommended exercise for pups? I think its just awesome!

Exercise chart

Avoiding inappropriate exercise will also help avoid muscle and ligament damage through overuse before growth plates close over.

LOL... Our pups would laugh at us if we suggested that timetable ;)

[persephone]

Thanks guys. I've just told her to ask about socialisation, and she's let me know that she likely won't go with the local breeder after chatting with the other couple of guys. I always fear that it's just scaremongering when a breeder talks badly about another but some things ring alarm bells for me too.

I also told her last night that HD is very much not 100% genetic and environmental factors can play a part. She'll be getting a run down on appropriate exercise from me for sure, although that chart is excellent Roova! I need that for my puppy pre school

it's so hard these days , our knowledge of potential problems and the way things work has caused an overload of information ..

[dotdashdot]

Update: over the course of the day, and with a bit of input from here she's going with a non local guy who has glowing recommendations and ticks all the boxes. My fur neice will be coming home in the new year.

[Airedaler]

Just remember the score of 9 in the greater scheme of things is not a bad score. That 9 is out of 106.

Sometimes I think we get too bogged down in scores etc. Having said that it does need to be considered.

[denali]

Update: over the course of the day, and with a bit of input from here she's going with a non local guy who has glowing recommendations and ticks all the boxes. My fur neice will be coming home in the new year.

Thats so exciting!

Just remember the score of 9 in the greater scheme of things is not a bad score. That 9 is out of 106.

Sometimes I think we get too bogged down in scores etc. Having said that it does need to be considered.

Thanks for that, i did always wonder what the scores were out of. I always assumed 10 :laugh: !

[Airedaler]

Update: over the course of the day, and with a bit of input from here she's going with a non local guy who has glowing recommendations and ticks all the boxes. My fur neice will be coming home in the new year.

Thats so exciting!

Just remember the score of 9 in the greater scheme of things is not a bad score. That 9 is out of 106.

Sometimes I think we get too bogged down in scores etc. Having said that it does need to be considered.

Thanks for that, i did always wonder what the scores were out of. I always assumed 10 :laugh: !

Each hip has a total possible score of 53. There are 9 areas that are scored