Genetics Vs Environment

[sandgrubber]

I would avoid that breeder. If they do not select sire and dam for temperament, they cannot be doing a good job of breeding.

Temperament is largely genetic. Why are herding dogs different from sight hounds, different from scent hounds, etc. GENETICS!

Try training a dog that is hardwired for dog aggression to be dog friendly. A good trainer can get to hold back and tolerate other dogs, but the underlying aggression is still there.

Try training a well bred Labrador as a schutzhund. It's an uphill battle. Soft mouth, strong bite inhibition . . . a good trainer can make biting a game, but the dog's heart isn't into attacking. Or for that matter, try to teach a Labrador to herd sheep. Good luck!

[dragonwoman]

I would avoid that breeder. If they do not select sire and dam for temperament, they cannot be doing a good job of breeding.

Temperament is largely genetic. Why are herding dogs different from sight hounds, different from scent hounds, etc. GENETICS!

Try training a dog that is hardwired for dog aggression to be dog friendly. A good trainer can get to hold back and tolerate other dogs, but the underlying aggression is still there.

Try training a well bred Labrador as a schutzhund. It's an uphill battle. Soft mouth, strong bite inhibition . . . a good trainer can make biting a game, but the dog's heart isn't into attacking. Or for that matter, try to teach a Labrador to herd sheep. Good luck!

Well said....... you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, you can modify and manage but you need the temperament what it should be for that breed, and a temperament that a particular owner finds hard to manage will be a burden for all the dog's life, including for the dog

I would be speaking to a few other breeders before buying a dog from the one saying genetics are minimal in his breeding program

[dragonwoman]

I would avoid that breeder. If they do not select sire and dam for temperament, they cannot be doing a good job of breeding.

Temperament is largely genetic. Why are herding dogs different from sight hounds, different from scent hounds, etc. GENETICS!

Try training a dog that is hardwired for dog aggression to be dog friendly. A good trainer can get to hold back and tolerate other dogs, but the underlying aggression is still there.

Try training a well bred Labrador as a schutzhund. It's an uphill battle. Soft mouth, strong bite inhibition . . . a good trainer can make biting a game, but the dog's heart isn't into attacking. Or for that matter, try to teach a Labrador to herd sheep. Good luck!

Well said....... you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, you can modify and manage but you need the temperament what it should be for that breed, and a temperament that a particular owner finds hard to manage will be a burden for all the dog's life, including for the dog

I would be speaking to a few other breeders before buying a dog from the one saying genetics are minimal in his breeding program

[The Spotted Devil]

Something really interesting that has popped up in my training...

I love using tug to build arousal in agility in particular. My Spaniels have an awesome tug around food, water and ducks which are HIGH distractions. However if you THROW the tug, ask them to retrieve it and then ask them to play tug they shut down quicker than you can say "working lines". They are hard wired (genetics!) to retrieve and deliver gently to hand. I've discovered that I'm better off rewarding the retrieve with food and using tug as a balance break.

[Kavik]

Something really interesting that has popped up in my training...

I love using tug to build arousal in agility in particular. My Spaniels have an awesome tug around food, water and ducks which are HIGH distractions. However if you THROW the tug, ask them to retrieve it and then ask them to play tug they shut down quicker than you can say "working lines". They are hard wired (genetics!) to retrieve and deliver gently to hand. I've discovered that I'm better off rewarding the retrieve with food and using tug as a balance break.

That is very interesting!

[sas]

Of course temperament has a genetic component otherwise there would be no behavioural breed traits in dogs. From a litter there will be dogs of all varieties of temperaments regardless of upbringing just like humans reproduce their children have different personalities, one you may refer to as a bad egg, yet the other a sweet child.

Breeders can influence how their puppies cope in the world to some extent, particularly their recovery rate by doing early neuro stim work with them often promoted by a company called Puppy Culture but that is also no guarantee.

Plenty of wonderful dog owners and trained professionals have dogs of questionable temperaments where nothing traumatic happened to them and they were raised well and appropriate by their owners.

There are simply too many variables to say it's one or the other, it is both however it's important to remember that the environment simply switches on or off the genes that are already there.

It's quite sad when I hear breeders make comments which would suggest the owner caused the dog to go 'off' therefore resolving them of any responsibility. A good example of how reliant dogs should be is that of guide dog puppies who are sent to puppy raisers and those raisers are meant to do a number of things with the puppies...one raiser did not, they lived remotely and did not do anything they were supposed to. At the age when the puppy was to return to the facility for assessment i.e. 1 year, it faulted a little for a day or 2 and then recovered just fine....now those are strong genetics for behaviour.

[Bushriver]

What would you think of a hip score of 2:12? He assures me the high score was due to injury. None of the others in the line have high scores including her parents, grandparents or her previous pups that have been tested.

[sandgrubber]

What would you think of a hip score of 2:12? He assures me the high score was due to injury. None of the others in the line have high scores including her parents, grandparents or her previous pups that have been tested.

I would look for accidents early in life before concluding anything. Asymmtric scores often have environmental causes, but you can never REALLY know. I have a similar problem with a girl who, radiometrically, has one bad hip (they don't use the same scoring system in the US, so I can't give you numbers). She fell off a porch at six months and had to be crate rested for several weeks. One of her tendons was nearly severed. I had one test litter from her because I really wanted a pup from her. So far no problems (3 years). 2:1 dam, 0:0 sire, great scores back a generation, no other hip problems in the lines that I could find. I ended up getting her desexed because . . .well . . . it's a worry breeding from a bitch with a bad hip score.

Edited November 25, 2016 by sandgrubber

[dragonwoman]

What would you think of a hip score of 2:12? He assures me the high score was due to injury. None of the others in the line have high scores including her parents, grandparents or her previous pups that have been tested.

I would want to see a written opinion of an experienced injury vet before I accepted that