Heather Healy Sues Rspca

[Pjrt]

[quote name='asal' timestamp='1479008435' post='6856917'

neither chi's or Tibbie could manage a suitably matted coat as said in this link "Small but active and alert, the Tibetan Spaniel dog breed hails from mountainous Tibet, where he served as a companion and watchdog. He’s known for his intelligence, easy-care coat, and his desire to keep watch over his family from high perches in the house.

Read more at http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/tibetan-spaniel#EXZ2FqVsK8VRWgAZ.99 "

Hello.... from a long-time owner of Tibetan Spaniels. That description says...'easy-care coat...meaning it's easy to care for, if you care for it. The statement presumes the coat is to be cared for.

My tibbies would be in a hell of a mess if they didn't get regular monitoring & care of their coats. Read 'matted'. Neglected tibbies very quickly get mats forming & I've seen other rescued tibbies with lumps of matted fur which felt & looked like rocks under their ears.

Thistle the dog, I thoroughly appreciate what you've posted. On behalf of tibbies, thank you.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tibetan+spaniel+photos&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT6YTd96TQAhUCVbwKHRi6C5MQsAQIGw&biw=1920&bih=971

so? Tibetan's don't have short hair on their ears like the breed photos? and that maltese looking thing is actually a Tibetan Spaniel is it?

Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Edited November 13, 2016 by Gruf

[mita]

[quote name='asal' timestamp='1479008435' post='6856917'

neither chi's or Tibbie could manage a suitably matted coat as said in this link "Small but active and alert, the Tibetan Spaniel dog breed hails from mountainous Tibet, where he served as a companion and watchdog. He’s known for his intelligence, easy-care coat, and his desire to keep watch over his family from high perches in the house.

Read more at http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/tibetan-spaniel#EXZ2FqVsK8VRWgAZ.99 "

Hello.... from a long-time owner of Tibetan Spaniels. That description says...'easy-care coat...meaning it's easy to care for, if you care for it. The statement presumes the coat is to be cared for.

My tibbies would be in a hell of a mess if they didn't get regular monitoring & care of their coats. Read 'matted'. Neglected tibbies very quickly get mats forming & I've seen other rescued tibbies with lumps of matted fur which felt & looked like rocks under their ears.

Thistle the dog, I thoroughly appreciate what you've posted. On behalf of tibbies, thank you.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tibetan+spaniel+photos&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT6YTd96TQAhUCVbwKHRi6C5MQsAQIGw&biw=1920&bih=971

so? Tibetan's don't have short hair on their ears like the breed photos? and that maltese looking thing is actually a Tibetan Spaniel is it?

You appear to be asking two things. I've already answered the first on behalf of tibbies... that they have hair of sufficient length and density that lack of monitoring and care of coat leads to matting.... & cited the thick lumps that can form under the ears. You provide a list of googled photos that do not show one tibbie ear lifted to reveal the hair at the base. I own tibbies & am part of the tibbie owning community. As to your second question referring to a particular dog as a 'thing. I wasn't speaking to that. Only to your googled quote that confused easy-care, with non-care.

[Steve]

A statement was made that this photo was not one of Heather's dogs. From memory it was one of the other dogs seized from another breeder around the same time.

That sort of stuff should not be in the public arena anyway before its all been done and dusted. . Blabbing about people who are searched or who have had their dogs seized or what ever before there are any charges and before an investigation so their whole lives are ruined whether they are guilty or not is disgraceful.

So is taking people's property without due process just as they did with the dogs owned by a breeder who took some of her dogs to a dog show after they had been debarked legally.

It was weeks before that breeder knew where they were or what was happening , no opportunity for a second opinion and when they came home several were sick . Why on earth would we believe anything is as they say it is especially when in Heather case it was all timed to back up the Oscars Law agenda to take exemptions from the Vicdogs.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Steve

[mita]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

[asal]

[quote name='asal' timestamp='1479008435' post='6856917'

neither chi's or Tibbie could manage a suitably matted coat as said in this link "Small but active and alert, the Tibetan Spaniel dog breed hails from mountainous Tibet, where he served as a companion and watchdog. He’s known for his intelligence, easy-care coat, and his desire to keep watch over his family from high perches in the house.

Read more at http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/tibetan-spaniel#EXZ2FqVsK8VRWgAZ.99 "

Hello.... from a long-time owner of Tibetan Spaniels. That description says...'easy-care coat...meaning it's easy to care for, if you care for it. The statement presumes the coat is to be cared for.

My tibbies would be in a hell of a mess if they didn't get regular monitoring & care of their coats. Read 'matted'. Neglected tibbies very quickly get mats forming & I've seen other rescued tibbies with lumps of matted fur which felt & looked like rocks under their ears.

Thistle the dog, I thoroughly appreciate what you've posted. On behalf of tibbies, thank you.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tibetan+spaniel+photos&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT6YTd96TQAhUCVbwKHRi6C5MQsAQIGw&biw=1920&bih=971

so? Tibetan's don't have short hair on their ears like the breed photos? and that maltese looking thing is actually a Tibetan Spaniel is it?

You appear to be asking two things. I've already answered the first on behalf of tibbies... that they have hair of sufficient length and density that lack of monitoring and care of coat leads to matting.... & cited the thick lumps that can form under the ears. You provide a list of googled photos that do not show one tibbie ear lifted to reveal the hair at the base. I own tibbies & am part of the tibbie owning community. As to your second question referring to a particular dog as a 'thing. I wasn't speaking to that. Only to your googled quote that confused easy-care, with non-care.

that dog in the photo does not have matts under the ears, all the ear is matted, the dog is either one of hers or it is not. it is used to illustrate the deplorable condition of the dogs.

As Steve said, if you were arrested for murder, domestic violence, pedophilia or any other crime your name would not be allowed to be made public , that doesn't happen until it gets to court. When its the rspca its a kangaroo court nation wide from day one, if it doesn't go to court there is no press statement to that, just deafening silence. The publicity machine grinds to a sudden and total halt

[asal]

[quote name='asal' timestamp='1479008435' post='6856917'

neither chi's or Tibbie could manage a suitably matted coat as said in this link "Small but active and alert, the Tibetan Spaniel dog breed hails from mountainous Tibet, where he served as a companion and watchdog. He's known for his intelligence, easy-care coat, and his desire to keep watch over his family from high perches in the house.

Read more at http://dogtime.com/d...FqVsK8VRWgAZ.99 "

{/quote]

Hello.... from a long-time owner of Tibetan Spaniels. That description says...'easy-care coat...meaning it's easy to care for, if you care for it. The statement presumes the coat is to be cared for.

My tibbies would be in a hell of a mess if they didn't get regular monitoring & care of their coats. Read 'matted'. Neglected tibbies very quickly get mats forming & I've seen other rescued tibbies with lumps of matted fur which felt & looked like rocks under their ears.

Thistle the dog, I thoroughly appreciate what you've posted. On behalf of tibbies, thank you.

https://www.google.c...iw=1920&bih=971

so? Tibetan's don't have short hair on their ears like the breed photos? and that maltese looking thing is actually a Tibetan Spaniel is it?

asal it appears that you have misunderstood. mita was not questioning your statement that the dog pictured was neither a Tibetan Spaniel or a Chihuahua.

She was quite clearly pointing out that Tibbies could indeed become matted if not cared for, despite the quote about easy care coat that you posted. I think it is important that fallacies or misleading information about our favorite breeds is corrected, don't you?

Edited to say I've stuffed up the quotes, sorry but I think most people will sort it out....

no saints forbid, we couldn't have fallacies or misleading information published about our favorite breeds without correction. as for the owner so pilloried? if your stupid enough to attract notice and become publicity fodder tough luck eh? guilty unless by some miracle can prove themselves innocent but no one will get to know that via the same landslide of press though. back pages if at all. Not even the 2 million judgement against them managed front page in the paper I spotted it in.

Say's it all about the chances of dog owners ever coming together to defend themselves let alone each other, no one needs to divide them.

Edited November 13, 2016 by asal

[mita]

no saints forbid, we couldn't have fallacies or misleading information published about our favorite breeds without correction. as for the owner so pilloried? if your stupid enough to attract notice and become publicity fodder tough luck eh?

I still haven't seen 'fallacies' published about the tibetan spaniel breed in that account in the OP. As to the extent of neglect of the tibetan spaniels caught up in the raid, I don't have access to RSPCA photos and evidence, so I can't comment on 'misleading'.

But I do know, as a tibetan spaniel owner of long-standing (broken record coming up) that they do require regular coat care & can develop significantly uncomfortable thick mats in vulnerable areas, if that's not done. That needs to be factored into ownership of tibbies.... whoever the owner is and however many that's owned.

This matter will be played out in court, with protocols applying to whatever evidence is deemed applicable in the civil action.

[Two Best Dogs!]

The suspension from 2010 was due to a paperwork issue not that she was guilty of anything .Just because Animal lib say they had photos and they dobbed her in for whatever back then doesn't mean she was charged or found guilty of anything that would remove her from VD .She was the secretary of the breed club before the crap in 2010. The photos of the chis in small pens were taken in 2010 while she was cleaning the other pens -made to look like she kept them like that . Blind freddy could see she didn't because they would have been out of them in ten minutes and they were clean.

That is fair enough, except that it's the first I heard about it? If that is the case, couldn't she have said such in her interviews or put out a statement? Is there a statement somewhere on clarifying that? Apologies but I remain very sceptical. Stuff like that contributes to my frustration, I do truly want to know what is going on but it is so difficult to find out details like this. I would much prefer to read the reports when they eventually come out, if ever.

How do you know she wasn't doing everything "Promoting excellence in dog behaviour, health, companionship, work, community acceptance and responsible dog ownership. Maintaining pure breed standards and education" She bred over 200 champions and sold a hell of a lot of pet puppies so where are all the people who are complaining about them not cutting the grade as far as temperament, health, companionship is concerned? She sure as hell has proven she was looking after the standard.

I bolded the bit I was thinking about specifically. I am not convinced that she can adequately promote excellence in all of those without a full set of staff on hand. The June raid had "A total of 13 Notices to Comply (NTC) were issued to the owners at the two properties. These relate to addressing animals’ health, hygiene, husbandry and food/water provisions." - I find that all quite alarming to read.

As for the families who did purchase puppies (from pet stores and online sources, would it occur to them to report any issues? I confess I'm not sure how one even does report a dodgy breeder anymore), I know as much as you on that I expect. The articles mention previous complaints about puppies, cite a couple of puppy purchasers who were unhappy with their visits but as for the rest, it is vague "complaints to Strathbogie Council went unheeded" and "six years of complaints" - granted that could be anywhere from 1 complaint every year to 100s of complaints. Ideally the court case would list how many of these there were?

I don't know if she is guilty of something she should be punished for or not but she is entitled to be treated fairly and have a right to defend herself. I'm not defending her, I don't know her but I don't believe everything we are hearing either.

I am in agreement there, I have absolutely no objections with Heather going after legal recourse and going to the courts. Ideally the courts would get to see all the evidence (on both sides) that the rest of us only here tidbits of. It is why I would very much like it to be done faster, so I can read all the more specific details than what was given to the press at the time of it happening. I am alright to change my opinion of some things if the data says otherwise, although I am likely to stay firm in the the animal to staff ratio isn't appropriate, and thus neither is the level of care. It is seeming you a far more willing to give the benefit of the doubt than me.

And apologies Steve, I should clarify I am not meaning to accuse any of you defending her methods and (possible) misdemeanours. I was thinking more we are coming at it from different POVs (you: registered member POV, me: frustrated cranky future puppy owner who doesn't want to inadvertently buy from a puppy mill), but I can step back if I am coming across as accusatory to dol members. I think I have shared my current opinions on the situation, my views and my frustrations - anything more would be going in circles I reckon.

Re registered breeders - bit silly isn't it to expect that just because someone is registered and breed purebreds that they will do it all the way the public has been told is the only way to do it but that's what has been fed out .

It is seeming to me a bit silly to expect members to be accurate representations of the body they have joined, but I am ever an optimist it seems I would hope that the majority are at least meeting the bare minimum of care, and that those who go above and beyond are recognised and promoted as such. and that those who are not are a teeny tiny minority that would ideally be removed from registry bodies.

A statement was made that this photo was not one of Heather's dogs. From memory it was one of the other dogs seized from another breeder around the same time.

Thanks Steve, all my articles just said the dog was from the raid - but not which property so in light of Heather being the main topic and not her neighbour, I had assumed it was one of hers. This is the neighbouring one then? Or are you meaning there was another raid at the same time as heather and her neighbours? I'll edit my post. There were also a few cats taken in if I recall, and something about parrots.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[asal]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

of if they are spotted before you do, and have time to remove them, they should be seized and you publicly shamed prior to the pending trial??????????

What I intensely dislike is this assumption of guilty, public pillaring and shaming before even being charged. Tried sentenced and hung in the public domain first, As I recall someone recently elected to parliament was in the past, jailed for naming and shaming until the magic day he could do it under parliamentary privilege. But then as now Pedephiles are innocent UNTIL proven guilty and still have rights, mistreating a child is so much less serious than a dog, oddly its apparently 70% of the children that kill themselves? The remaining 30% write some heartbreaking impact statments, well, if they speak up that is.

Perhaps I may feel better and justice being served if there were the same level of outrage and demands for law change, eg the likes of Cardinal Pell charged with perverting the course of justice. Im listening, cant hear a peep?

Edited November 13, 2016 by asal

[mita]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

of if they are spotted before you do, and have time to remove them, they should be seized and you publicly shamed prior to the pending trial??????????

if significant lumps that cause discomfort, pain and/or affect movement are found....it would mean I hadn't spotted them because I was not doing the regular monitoring & coat care required. I'd then have no one else to blame if the RSPCA took them into care. The aim would be to immediately treat the dogs. Extent of culpability would depend on particular circumstances....like if an owner were lying ill in hospital.

I repeat, I do not have access to photos & evidence that the RSPCA collected in the particular case. That is what counts when a court deliberates this case. You are hell bent on defending the owner at any cost which you're free to do. However, I can neither accuse nor defend her because I don't have access to the evidence (another broken record). Shall leave you to it.

Edited November 13, 2016 by mita

[asal]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

of if they are spotted before you do, and have time to remove them, they should be seized and you publicly shamed prior to the pending trial??????????

if significant lumps that cause discomfort, pain and/or affect movement are found....it would mean I hadn't spotted them because I was not doing the regular monitoring & coat care required. I'd then have no one else to blame if the RSPCA took them into care. The aim would be to immediately treat the dogs. Extent of culpability would depend on particular circumstances....like if an owner were lying ill in hospital.

I repeat, I do not have access to photos & evidence that the RSPCA collected in the particular case. That is what counts when a court deliberates this case. You are hell bent on defending the owner at any cost which you're free to do. However, I can neither accuse nor defend her because I don't have access to the evidence (another broken record). Shall leave you to it.

what i defend and dislike is anyone can be so shamed publicly if the rspca is involved, no no such thing happens if its a police matter.

we do not know, how badly such stress will effect that person, I still remember the lady politician in SA who someone decided to say was gay, she was so distressed she killed herself. it later transpired the accuser had no idea whether the accusation was true or not, done under the argument of all's fair in an election

Edited November 13, 2016 by asal

[Pjrt]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

Wtf no ! I don't like to see any level of 'neglect' of any dogs coat care. I guess I was coming at it from the angle of being a dog groomer for over 30 yrs and dealing with all sorts of breeds, coats, and levels of care and neglect of all manner of pets. I suppos I was saying that IF neglected, the coat of a Maltese or a poodle etc would become more matted, more unhygienic more quickly, and harder to fix than a Tibbie or that type of coat. I'm not defending neglect!

Eta I can see how these bloody rspca cases get legs when I get bashed up for simply talking about a coat type and breed.

ffs I'm not defending neglect.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Gruf

[asal]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

Wtf no ! I don't like to see any level of 'neglect' of any dogs coat care. I guess I was coming at it from the angle of being a dog groomer for over 30 yrs and dealing with all sorts of breeds, coats, and levels of care and neglect of all manner of pets. I suppos I was saying that IF neglected, the coat of a Maltese or a poodle etc would become more matted, more unhygienic more quickly, and harder to fix than a Tibbie or that type of coat. I'm not defending neglect!

Eta I can see how these bloody rspca cases get legs when I get bashed up for simply talking about a coat type and breed.

ffs I'm not defending neglect.

dont hurt yourself gruff please.

what we need is new laws, anyone that finds their dog has matted for whatever reason needs to turn themselves in, and accept the full force of the law.

if the law states the coat must be groomed no less and once a week, if they for any reason cannot groom it themselves they have 48 hours to book it into a groomer or turn themselves in. problem solved.

I do mean that tongue in cheek but I suppose it will be taken seriously by AR though.

I had the most wonderous poodle, only needed grooming once a month unless she got wet and rolled in the mud that is. glorious harsh coat. you dont see it that often do u gruff

Edited November 13, 2016 by asal

[Little Gifts]

I agree that the RSPCA should not be naming and shaming - they should be focussed on saving any at risk animals and letting the prosecution process occur. There are also 6 sides to every story and hopefully Heather gets to tell hers where it counts most, in the courts. But I also come at these cases from a position of working in statutory child protection for many years. It was not uncommon for parents to neglect or abuse a specific child. But does that mean there wasn't a risk to all the other children in that household? If there is a vulnerable party and evidence of an abuser/neglector I'd rather err on the side of caution and protect all the vulnerable.

I've also experienced plenty of cases where matters were either unsubstantiated, not as bad as first considered or quickly rectified with support. Perhaps that is what is lacking in cases such as this too - a willingness to accept things are not going well and to address them so the animals can be returned? I still don't see anything reported from Heather about how she was physically capable of caring for the needs of 82 animals every day. This is my main issue with puppy farmers and back yard breeders. If you can appropriately care for animals en masse because of the set up you have and number of staff on hand every single day of the year then fine, but we see time and time again that corners are cut and it is the animals who pay the price for it.

We wouldn't accept an invalided patient being confined to a bed containing their own urine and faeces. We wouldn't accept a child being fed and having to sleep in their cot surrounded by their waste either. We wouldn't accept a filthy child covered in sores and with matted hair. The reason we don't accept these things is because they are easily fixable by anyone. They don't require a special skill and they don't take a lot of time if attended to as they happen. Some of them wont even exist if you find time within even a 24 hour time period to catch up on what you couldn't do immediately. The absence of them being done is neglect. If you can't attend to basic needs because the load is too great then the onus is on you to rectify that situation. If repeated complaints about the same issue were made over a period of time then that is evidence that no self-rectification was going to come.

We humans bring these animals into the world and we owe it to them to do so responsibly. All the excuses in the world mean nothing when the harm has already been caused. Companion animals die because of this stuff, particularly if they end up in the RSPCAs sticky fingers.

[Pjrt]

[Tibbies do have relatively short plush coat on the outer ear leather, but often grow large plumes of very long, fine, soft hair directly behind their ears, more especially on desexed animals, and it does indeed get matted, often into a hard ball shaped lump, If not cared for appropriately.

And some of them have really volumous coats, again more especially the desexed animals. It does take a lot more general neglect of a Tibbie coat than say a Maltese or poodle, before it starts to get very matted overall, and can generally be fixed without resorting to shaving, except perhaps behind the ears, but if they are indeed cared for regularly and properly, then yes they have an easy/easier coat than some other breeds

Do you mean easy/easier care?

You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her.

If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all.

Wtf no ! I don't like to see any level of 'neglect' of any dogs coat care. I guess I was coming at it from the angle of being a dog groomer for over 30 yrs and dealing with all sorts of breeds, coats, and levels of care and neglect of all manner of pets. I suppos I was saying that IF neglected, the coat of a Maltese or a poodle etc would become more matted, more unhygienic more quickly, and harder to fix than a Tibbie or that type of coat. I'm not defending neglect!

Eta I can see how these bloody rspca cases get legs when I get bashed up for simply talking about a coat type and breed.

ffs I'm not defending neglect.

dont hurt yourself gruff please.

what we need is new laws, anyone that finds their dog has matted for whatever reason needs to turn themselves in, and accept the full force of the law.

if the law states the coat must be groomed no less and once a week, if they for any reason cannot groom it themselves they have 48 hours to book it into a groomer or turn themselves in. problem solved.

I do mean that tongue in cheek but I suppose it will be taken seriously by AR though.

I had the most wonderous poodle, only needed grooming once a month unless she got wet and rolled in the mud that is. glorious harsh coat. you dont see it that often do u gruff

No you don't! I've handled a few poodles that have that wonderful crisp Brillo hair that barely tangles. The perfect combination of texture and oils. Not so often seen in the smaller varieties. But don't be caught saying out loud that you only need to brush your poodle once a month! Not many will understand, some might call the authorities on you.