Kavik Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 No, I just hope that it will help settle him and help him focus. I am quite capable of training him for competition without any 'additives' :) Lauren Langman said her Working Cockers were like butterflies with the concentration span of a gnat - that aptly describes my dog :laugh: . If he had shown any aggression towards other dogs, he would have been desexed long ago without any question (been there done that with dog aggression), he has only kept them because that is one area where he has been a good boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 No, I just hope that it will help settle him and help him focus. I am quite capable of training him for competition without any 'additives' :) Lauren Langman said her Working Cockers were like butterflies with the concentration span of a gnat - that aptly describes my dog :laugh: . If he had shown any aggression towards other dogs, he would have been desexed long ago without any question (been there done that with dog aggression), he has only kept them because that is one area where he has been a good boy but you intend to do this by manipulating his hormone system by surgical modification - that's what it is!...you could also inject him hormones (or other drugs) to calm him down. It is what elsewhere is called an athletic enhancing performance measure. The problem is not that your dog has this temperament, the problem is that you want to be successful in your sport - the root of all evil that leads to all the rubbish in the Greyhound industry - and we talking here about agility where no money (or only little money) is involved. If we already use surgical modifications in agility to gain an advantage over competitors, why is anyone surprised about the dodgy measures used in Greyhound racing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roova Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Gosh Willem, maybe you could find fault with someone who isn't actually awesome with their dog? Its clear this is a really important topic for you, but using guilt tripping to control someone else's behaviour never usually ends with them doing what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 No, it actually wouldn't matter if I wanted to compete in agility or not. The problems I am having would be the same if he was just going to be a pet as well as a performance dog. I have no problem with people desexing if it helps them to be a better pet, or a better dog for that person. If it helps with aggression issues, then I am all for it, having been through that. Aggression isn't our particular problem, but other issues which desexing may help are. If someone is struggling, and desexing means that they will keep and perservere with their pet instead of getting frustrated and giving them up to a shelter or rehoming them, then I see that as a good thing. The dog doesn't care if it is desexed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I am curious about the possibility of entire males being targets for aggression. My 11 month old boxer is very well-socialised and excellent at varying his play style for other dogs. He backs off cheerfully (not in a scared way) when other dogs challenge him, as happened around the water bowl at the dog park the other day. He shows no signs of aggression at all, no dominant behaviour, no humping. He is not mature yet obviously, but if he continues as he is, I might be tempted to leave him entire. I worry about him being a target though. I would need to check with his breeder though, especially as he is white she would probably prefer him to be desexed. She recommends waiting until 18 months at least, so that's what we are doing at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) If someone is struggling, and desexing means that they will keep and perservere with their pet instead of getting frustrated and giving them up to a shelter or rehoming them, then I see that as a good thing. WOW! The dog doesn't care if it is desexed or not. do you think the Greyhounds care if they are doped or not? Eta: ...or do dogs care if they are docked?...do they care if they are euthanized?... Edited October 16, 2016 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I would say the majority (if not all?) people would prefer people to desex their pets rather than rehoming them? Who would prefer people rehome their dog rather than desex if desex will help? Not that I am thinking of rehoming. But I'm sure a lot of people would :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Willem you are being very rude. Just in case you didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I'm a Staffordshire Bull Terrier breeder. I don't agree with juvenile desexing unless there is a reason why it must be done (ie social reasons, medical reasons such as in the case of a monorchid etc). IF it is to be done, then yes, it is best to wait until sexual maturity to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I would say the majority (if not all?) people would prefer people to desex their pets rather than rehoming them? Who would prefer people rehome their dog rather than desex if desex will help? Not that I am thinking of rehoming. But I'm sure a lot of people would :laugh: the question is why you are getting frustrated?...and why is frustration an excuse for surrendering a dog?...maybe there is nothing wrong with the dog, maybe it is your trainings measures that result in the lack for of focus?...and what if de-sexing doesn't achieve the outcome you expect?...what is if the dog becomes actually aggressive after de-sexing (which we know is actually a real possibility)? when we make the decision for a dog, and/or a breed, there is no guarantee that this dog will be an agility champion, an obedience monster or a whatsoever. So what?...is the dog than wastage because he is a slower learner or lacks trainability?...how can we point the finger at the Greyhound industry if we classify our own dogs as wastage if they don't comply with our ambitious expectations?...agility might not be the sport for your dog, maybe he would be good in herding, maybe you have to spend the time that you want to spend on agility just in teaching basics, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hi I will be getting an English staffy puppy very soon as a house pet Is it better to desex him or leave him as he is ? and what age is best to desex him if so ? (I don't plan on using him to breed) Just asking cause I heard there are some pros to leaving him intact and cons and also pros/cons in desexing him Also heard if I don't want him to be too tall then I should leave him till he is older and mature then desex him cause if I desex at a young age he will grow bigger than usual .. that's what I heard on the internet can someone correct me if I'm wrong .. so confused Many thanks guys! would you have bought him if the breeder would have told you that there are some issues with this pup as he was born without balls?...or do you think this would be a defect compromising the value of the dog? Do you also consider to crop his ears and dock his tail because there are 'some pros and cons' in it? Why do you think de-sexing would improve the value of your dog?...if you want a de-sexed dog, why not getting one from the pounds? What a rude post to answer a query . the new poster was confused enough ... to reply in a terse and angry manner was unneccesary . What is the 'Value' you speak of ? unhelpful .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Willem you are being very rude. Just in case you didn't know. why?...because I call a spade a spade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Willem you are being very rude. Just in case you didn't know. why?...because I call a spade a spade? Not at all; you come in boots and all and are so forceful with your answers that, I for one, skip over your posts as they are frequently worded to be hurtful and humiliating A pity as you may have posted some pertinent, interesting info which I would miss out on when I skip your posts; because of the likelihood of feeling bullied and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 If I continue to have too many challenges, yes I will retire him from agility and try another sport. Would be a pity though because when he works well he is really spectacular. I certainly think desexing is worth a go before I do that though. I am spending my time on the basics but I will be most unhappy if I never get past that. If that happens I will retire him and start again with another dog. Frustration isn't an excuse to surrender s dog, but it is a reason people do it. When you have been reduced to tears due to your dog's behaviour and you don't enjoy them, people give them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-TeC.yo Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Hi I will be getting an English staffy puppy very soon as a house pet Is it better to desex him or leave him as he is ? and what age is best to desex him if so ? (I don't plan on using him to breed) Just asking cause I heard there are some pros to leaving him intact and cons and also pros/cons in desexing him Also heard if I don't want him to be too tall then I should leave him till he is older and mature then desex him cause if I desex at a young age he will grow bigger than usual .. that's what I heard on the internet can someone correct me if I'm wrong .. so confused Many thanks guys! would you have bought him if the breeder would have told you that there are some issues with this pup as he was born without balls?...or do you think this would be a defect compromising the value of the dog? Do you also consider to crop his ears and dock his tail because there are 'some pros and cons' in it? Why do you think de-sexing would improve the value of your dog?...if you want a de-sexed dog, why not getting one from the pounds? Pros & cons as in health issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) Willem you are being very rude. Just in case you didn't know. why?...because I call a spade a spade? No not all Willem. But it's important to understand that it is more helpful to guide, encourage, educate and support rather than forcing a one size fits all approach (which you accuse others of doing). Not everyone has the patience and commitment that I do to training and competition. But if I can squeeze an extra 5-10% out of everyone I work with or meet then the welfare outcomes for the dog are exponential. And that person comes back to me seeking more education because they saw great results by making small changes. People need positive reinforcement too. If you come in too hard all you do is turn people away or they become defensive. With regards to desexing, I spend hours talking to prospective puppy buyers about why I would prefer them to wait until the pups are at least 12-18 months but they know I am the first person they can call if they have any behavioural issues. And whilst not all issues are fairly blamed on entire animals some are. Working with that takes skill and timing. Edited October 16, 2016 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 If I continue to have too many challenges, yes I will retire him from agility and try another sport. Would be a pity though because when he works well he is really spectacular. I certainly think desexing is worth a go before I do that though. I am spending my time on the basics but I will be most unhappy if I never get past that. If that happens I will retire him and start again with another dog. Frustration isn't an excuse to surrender s dog, but it is a reason people do it. When you have been reduced to tears due to your dog's behaviour and you don't enjoy them, people give them up. your frustration seems to be fueled by your ambitions - pretty hard to train a dog if frustration and associated impatience dictate the handlers attitude and body language. Your dog doesn't know on which agility level you want to be with him in the near future, and he doesn't care - he just want to enjoy the time (whether it is training or something else), and he definitely won't be motivated to work for you if he senses your frustration. So instead of thinking about manipulating the dog's hormone system it might be interesting to find out where a total change in your attitude in training would get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Willem you are being very rude. Just in case you didn't know. why?...because I call a spade a spade? No not all Willem. But it's important to understand that it is more helpful to guide, encourage, educate and support rather than forcing a one size fits all approach (which you accuse others of doing). Not everyone has the patience and commitment that I do to training and competition. But if I can squeeze an extra 5-10% out of everyone I work with or meet then the welfare outcomes for the dog are exponential. And that person comes back to me seeking more education because they saw great results by making small changes. People need positive reinforcement too. If you come in too hard all you do is turn people away or they become defensive. true - but I also see the merits in using aversives when I think they are appropriate :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 But aversives always have fallout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Pros, cons. There are many. But I can tell you two real life examples to desex a male dog. (After it's old enough.) One, entire dogs like to pee. Yes, training and stuff but some boys love to mark and god dammit THEIR PEE REEKS!!! Two, and I agree this is not the same for everyone, obviously. But I knew someone who had an entire male dog who was a slave to his hormones. He was a whining fretting screaming mess if there was a bitch in heat somewhere in the neighbourhood. He would be frantically trying to escape, digging, whining fretting... a canine basket case. I know, worst case situation but it happens. Hormones... we all have em, dogs and humans and No Willem, it wasn't a training issue. Don't bother. Just... don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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