Premack Vs Nothing In Life Is Free

[Two Best Dogs!]

Are these the same methods renamed? Just wondering.

We do nothing in life is free, with the occasional allowance because im weak ????

Edited October 10, 2016 by Thistle the dog

[J...]

Pretty much

I do it here too - but only for the high value items which coincidentally are mostly safety behaviours as well. I don't bother with the things my dogs have only moderate value for - I only sell them the big ticket items :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

Premack is so powerful.

The Dalmatian that would always choose sniffing and peeling now loves treats and tug.

The Springer that would choose a pigeon retrieve over cheese now will take whatever I offer her although she clearly has her preferences.

And her daughter, who would rather RUN than do anything else, now loves to train....nailed food and half way there with tug.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

The way I see it is

premack is - you do something I want - to get something you want.

the way I see NILIF is it's 100% premack ie dog gets nothing it wants unless it does something I want. And with my dog - I should probably set higher criteria ie fast sit, not slow attitude sit to get the back door opened and permission to go out.

It's a bit of a toss up between getting a fast sit or a puddle on the carpet.

And she back chains. Ie she asks to be let out the back - and stays out there until I call her back in (so she can get a treat). And it helps if I remember to use the right cue before I open the fridge door.

I probably need Jess in my ear "Don't reward that crap"...

[The Spotted Devil]

Premack is really about transferring value when a low-valued behaviour is followed by a high-valued behaviour. How fast a dog sits in order to be rewarded is more about variable schedules of reinforcement BUT it's very difficult to tease all this out in the midst of a training session and for practical purposes I don't. I want to see JOY in training, a continual increase in behaviours I want and a decrease in behaviours I don't. Job done :D

[corvus]

I don't think they are the same thing. Premack is performing a less frequent behaviour for the opportunity to perform a more frequent behaviour, as TSD says. NILIF is at its heart a deference protocol. "Ask" for what you want by performing a single behaviour in all contexts. They are both good for developing impulse control and strengthening the target behaviour whatever that is, and improving handler responsiveness, but in my mind, NILIF is more about structure and consistency and taking control of reinforcers so you get the behaviours you want rewarded, whereas Premack is more about working with the dog's goals.