JulesP Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 ???? finding something that is a good fit for both of us (and possible future dogs) and not incredibly far away is proving difficult! I know at our club there is a "gap" where people want to continue to socialise with other like-minded people, have some fun with their dogs doing different activities but not get right into the competition side of it. We have had some suggestions of a self-driven group, doing some basic nose work, tracking, maybe a trip to the cross country course or even a walk down the boardwalk to the pet friendly cafe as a group. It continues to go round and around - maybe one day someone will grab it and make it happen Maybe seek out some like-minded people and find someone who does private lessons in your areas of interest? Yeah agree. We have a 'social' class but dogs that aren't social tend to go in that to get more social. There are a fair few dog walking meet-up groups around but I would like to do training without being harassed about competing! I would like to train to UDX level but that training is done in our 'trial' class and you do get constantly asked when you are going to compete. Surely it isn't that weird to want to just train your dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) ???? finding something that is a good fit for both of us (and possible future dogs) and not incredibly far away is proving difficult! I know at our club there is a "gap" where people want to continue to socialise with other like-minded people, have some fun with their dogs doing different activities but not get right into the competition side of it. We have had some suggestions of a self-driven group, doing some basic nose work, tracking, maybe a trip to the cross country course or even a walk down the boardwalk to the pet friendly cafe as a group. It continues to go round and around - maybe one day someone will grab it and make it happen Maybe seek out some like-minded people and find someone who does private lessons in your areas of interest? I know a fantastic dog training company that does this in the Illawarra area: http://www.thedogproject.com.au/ Edited October 9, 2016 by Papillon Kisses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Don't write yourself or your dog off for seminars My dog has a special gift for ruining handling spots at seminars. She either knows way too much and I get bored. Or she spends the previous three days eating herself stupid because we're staying with someone who free feeds and won't stop while we're there, and then she can barely move when we get to class. Last club training - we hadn't had a decent walk in a day or so (crap weather - I'm a wuss), so when I get her out for our turn (and we were late because I helped set up - argh), she decides to go sniffing the first time we get to a turn not a tunnel - does a sniff lap of the entire venue without me. rotten dog. The rest of our runs were fine. sigh. I still learn heaps from the online courses - but they don't have to solve the same problems I do - like my dog does not fetch and tug. Well very occasionally but mostly - she prefers to nick off with the tug and rip it to pieces. So we don't use that for rewards. And that can slow things down a bit. Mrs RB - for someone who follows as much Say Yes/SG as you do, your posts always indicate that your dog is the one running your relationship and then she gets the blame for doing what she does. Your dog would be living, breathing and dreaming premack if she was in my household. My dogs aren't robots and they aren't perfect, but they do give me a lot of pretty amazing behaviour in return for the level of privileges they get in life. You either want it or you don't - but you're making the same excuses you've been making for years on here. If you want it, fine - go work for it. If you don't, that's fine too - but don't blame your dog for your lack of "I want it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I had an auditing spot in the Shape Up seminar last time they were here, and that was amazing! They were fantastic! I definitely plan on going to the next one, though I don't know if I will try a working spot yet, there will be a lot of competition for them for one thing, I may only be able to audit :laugh: You can only give it a shot. It's probably worth getting in on some of the seminars being run by the hosts in these situations. I've found if you support the host most times when they bring people out, you will normally get a spot that bit easier than you would as a "walk-up" if that makes sense. Even if it's just an audit spot as support, it keeps you in the loop. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Yeah agree. We have a 'social' class but dogs that aren't social tend to go in that to get more social. There are a fair few dog walking meet-up groups around but I would like to do training without being harassed about competing! I would like to train to UDX level but that training is done in our 'trial' class and you do get constantly asked when you are going to compete. Surely it isn't that weird to want to just train your dog? Our "gap" is a bit the same - a few less social dogs who have a group of people where they feel comfortable. I don't know why instructors get hung up on the competing. I have a few students in agility who will probably never compete, and it doesn't bother me. We've had one or two give it a shot when they were ready and decide it wasn't for them, and that's fine too. Maybe some instructors don't realise that their "encouragement" is construed as pressure by students who are more sensitive to it (and I know I am). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The one good thing to come from the disaster of a seminar, is that I am determined to fix the things that are causing us the most problems. Trying out a few new things now after brainstorming with a friend. It is not going to be easy, I have a creative, independent thinking, high drive dog :laugh: and will need to find equally creative solutions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The one good thing to come from the disaster of a seminar, is that I am determined to fix the things that are causing us the most problems. Trying out a few new things now after brainstorming with a friend. It is not going to be easy, I have a creative, independent thinking, high drive dog :laugh: and will need to find equally creative solutions! You want a challenge? Get a Dalmatian Dog help me but he's my easy dog now - these dogs are our greatest teachers Kavik xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The one good thing to come from the disaster of a seminar, is that I am determined to fix the things that are causing us the most problems. Trying out a few new things now after brainstorming with a friend. It is not going to be easy, I have a creative, independent thinking, high drive dog :laugh: and will need to find equally creative solutions! Good on you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The one good thing to come from the disaster of a seminar, is that I am determined to fix the things that are causing us the most problems. Trying out a few new things now after brainstorming with a friend. It is not going to be easy, I have a creative, independent thinking, high drive dog :laugh: and will need to find equally creative solutions! You want a challenge? Get a Dalmatian Dog help me but he's my easy dog now - these dogs are our greatest teachers Kavik xxx That they are :D Darcy made me look good, Zee informed me I wasn't that good and Bowie's been the beneficiary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Don't write yourself or your dog off for seminars My dog has a special gift for ruining handling spots at seminars. She either knows way too much and I get bored. Or she spends the previous three days eating herself stupid because we're staying with someone who free feeds and won't stop while we're there, and then she can barely move when we get to class. Last club training - we hadn't had a decent walk in a day or so (crap weather - I'm a wuss), so when I get her out for our turn (and we were late because I helped set up - argh), she decides to go sniffing the first time we get to a turn not a tunnel - does a sniff lap of the entire venue without me. rotten dog. The rest of our runs were fine. sigh. I still learn heaps from the online courses - but they don't have to solve the same problems I do - like my dog does not fetch and tug. Well very occasionally but mostly - she prefers to nick off with the tug and rip it to pieces. So we don't use that for rewards. And that can slow things down a bit. Mrs RB - for someone who follows as much Say Yes/SG as you do, your posts always indicate that your dog is the one running your relationship and then she gets the blame for doing what she does. Your dog would be living, breathing and dreaming premack if she was in my household. My dogs aren't robots and they aren't perfect, but they do give me a lot of pretty amazing behaviour in return for the level of privileges they get in life. You either want it or you don't - but you're making the same excuses you've been making for years on here. If you want it, fine - go work for it. If you don't, that's fine too - but don't blame your dog for your lack of "I want it" Ooh harsh. But I do take responsibility for where we're at - and there's no point me doing handling seminars with her until I lift my game. Entirely my fault for trying that really crappy transition at club last week. At the same time - I'm probably not giving her credit for how much she has improved. We're doing some really tricky stuff well at training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) They actually herd the balls! Great for the herding breeds who don't have access to sheep. :) I see Wagging School is offering it. I think they may also do Nosework just FYI. balls and sheep - totally different kettle of fish ...unfortunately (for the few sheep that have to participate in herding workshops) there is nothing that could replace them. On the other side: they might have some stress for the benefit of all the other thousands of sheep that can be gently moved without stress and without getting nipped via well trained sheep dogs. ETA: herding workshops are fun - my dog just had the best 2 days of her young life - but is IMO only for mental stable and healthy dogs with some herding instincts, hence I don't think it is suitable for Thistle. ETA: someone told me 'Runner Ducks' are somehow a suitable substitute for sheep regarding herding training - I'm tempted to get a few ... Edited October 10, 2016 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) They actually herd the balls! Great for the herding breeds who don't have access to sheep. :) I see Wagging School is offering it. I think they may also do Nosework just FYI. balls and sheep - totally different kettle of fish ...unfortunately (for the few sheep that have to participate in herding workshops) there is nothing that could replace them. On the other side: they might have some stress for the benefit of all the other thousands of sheep that can be gently moved without stress and without getting nipped via well trained sheep dogs. No treibball is obviously not exactly like herding sheep - the balls are not alive. They use similar principles of going around to the back of the ball or group of balls (like they would go around a flock of sheep), orienting towards the handler (balancing) and then bringing them to the handler. Because balls are not alive and do not move on their own, the dog pushes the ball towards the handler. It looks like good fun! And sort of 'fake' herding if you can't or do not want to use sheep (as you pointed out, there are some ethical questions surrounding using sheep in training the dogs, even more so with city dogs who are not ever going to work on a farm for real and are only doing it for a bit of fun. Is it fair to subject the sheep to all that stress just so your dog can have a bit of fun?). Not that I am against training city dogs to herd sheep, just pointing out that some people see this as a fun alternative to herding. Treibball Edited October 10, 2016 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 And yes ducks can be used for herding, you can get herding titles on ducks - they use Indian Runners in the trials I think. I have a friend who has some Call Ducks which also work well. You would want the dog started on sheep first, ducks are obviously a bit more ummm tempting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 They actually herd the balls! Great for the herding breeds who don't have access to sheep. :) I see Wagging School is offering it. I think they may also do Nosework just FYI. balls and sheep - totally different kettle of fish ...unfortunately (for the few sheep that have to participate in herding workshops) there is nothing that could replace them. On the other side: they might have some stress for the benefit of all the other thousands of sheep that can be gently moved without stress and without getting nipped via well trained sheep dogs. No treibball is obviously not exactly like herding sheep - the balls are not alive. They use similar principles of going around to the back of the ball or group of balls (like they would go around a flock of sheep), orienting towards the handler (balancing) and then bringing them to the handler. Because balls are not alive and do not move on their own, the dog pushes the ball towards the handler. It looks like good fun! And sort of 'fake' herding if you can't or do not want to use sheep (as you pointed out, there are some ethical questions surrounding using sheep in training the dogs, even more so with city dogs who are not ever going to work on a farm for real and are only doing it for a bit of fun. Is it fair to subject the sheep to all that stress just so your dog can have a bit of fun?). I just wanted to point out that it would be a big big mistake to believe that a dog that can perfectly handle the ball would be ok with sheep. The instincts a sheep can trigger in a dog - and will trigger in the right dog - is a total game changer. If you just look at it you would think there are some similarities - if you see it through the eyes of your dog: no, there are not similarities. wrt stress for the sheep: if you would ask sheep whether they want to volunteer in a herding workshop I assume the answer would be no :) . However, depending on the quality of the course and the trainer, the sheep won't get harmed, and don't forget the training will also condition them for the right response to the dogs too. So there is some direct benefit also for the ones that (have to) participate in the workshop. But yes, it is not for every dog....but for the right ones it is somehow the pinnacle of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) ...Treibball that video actually demonstrates pretty good why it is - IMO - a bad idea if you would use 'Treibball' as a preparation for herding: the dog gets trained to contact the ball (because he can't move it otherwise); in herding you don't want this contact as it would dramatically increase the risk of uncontrolled nipping. Now try to explain this to a dog that is trained upfront on a ball while is in the paddock with sheep ... Edited October 10, 2016 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Em prefers ducks for retrieving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 ...Treibball that video actually demonstrates pretty good why it is - IMO - a bad idea if you would use 'Treibball' as a preparation for herding: the dog gets trained to contact the ball (because he can't move it otherwise); in herding you don't want this contact as it would dramatically increase the risk of uncontrolled nipping. Now try to explain this to a dog that is trained upfront on a ball while is in the paddock with sheep ... Who said that it was a good preparation for herding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Em prefers ducks for retrieving Poppy thought herding ducks was dumb. She lives only for sheep! Amber might like ducks judging by how she plays with magpies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Em prefers ducks for retrieving it seems these ducks can serve a lot of different needs, and they taste nice too, they say the runner duck are a little bit lean, so they even make good dog food....hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Exactly JulesP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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