Jen'n'them Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 hi everyone, cross posted up in breed sub as well :) We have a 15 week old rottie pup named Titan. Gorgeous boy and loved by everyone in our family anyway my question... Last weekend he pulled up lame so was limping a bit nothing major and we put it down to him being a pup and playing with the big dogs well ok playing with our staffy girl and getting maybe knocked down a little hard or maybe he over did it on a walk. But we had to take him to the vet for an upset stomach (thank you chicken necks that was a delight to clean up) and mentioned in passing he was a bit limpy. He has never been a jumpy pup even when we visited him at a super early age 6 weeks I believe he was he was a bundle of fun but not jumpy, on other visits as he aged up to come home age (11 weeks old) he wasn't jumpy fun loving and playful but not a jumper. We put it down to hey worlds best pup! anyway the Vet said hip dysplasia after examining his hind quarters. The vet recommended we do a JPS surgery on him but must be done prior to 20 weeks. As you can imagine it was a sucker punch and our knee jerk reaction was to scream out yes do it fix him. But we said we'd think about it and she said to do our research but needs to know by this Saturday. The specialist is only up this way once every 3 months. so we don't have the luxury of time. Xrays were not taken but would be done prior to surgery (he'd also be desxed at the same time). Everything I've read has been, wait and see. manage the problem with diet exercise and supplements surgery as a last resort. Please help is this JPS something we should do now or should we wait. I know you can't make our decisions for us but we do need input, we want to do what is best for him. He will be desexed but we were wanting to wait until he'd finished the bulk of his growing. Parents have good hip scores and we saw both dogs as well as each pup every visit, both mum and dad were running around beautiful stride and all round stunning dogs. The breeder is just as upset as we are. We don't blame the breeder these things can just happen i don't want to bash them and have nothing but positive things to say about them. :) Jen Diva the staffy and Titan the unruly **can't for the life of me remember my old login been a member for about 6 years now** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) how can the vet make a final diagnose without even having an X-ray done?...change vet and get an x-ray ASAP... ETA: the limping can be from vaccination side effects, tick bites etc. too, yes, it might be HD, but making the decision for the future without an X-Ray is a at least 'adventuresome'. ETA: it is also very unlikely that a dog of such young age shows clear signs of HD - change vet! Edited October 6, 2016 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'n'them Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 how can the vet make a final diagnose without even having an X-ray done?...change vet and get an x-ray ASAP... She wont do the xrays unless he is knocked out. they would be done prior to the JPS and at that point they would either do the JPS or wake him up after he was desexed. she did do a physical exam and based her dx on what we said as as well as her exam. I'm rural and don't have the luxury of multi vets to choose from :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 how can the vet make a final diagnose without even having an X-ray done?...change vet and get an x-ray ASAP... She wont do the xrays unless he is knocked out. they would be done prior to the JPS and at that point they would either do the JPS or wake him up after he was desexed. she did do a physical exam and based her dx on what we said as as well as her exam. I'm rural and don't have the luxury of multi vets to choose from :) see second editing in my previous post; and if your dog is really prone to HD, don't de-sex him or wait at least 3-4 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'n'them Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 thanks for the input Willem :) muchly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) how can the vet make a final diagnose without even having an X-ray done?...change vet and get an x-ray ASAP... She wont do the xrays unless he is knocked out. they would be done prior to the JPS and at that point they would either do the JPS or wake him up after he was desexed. she did do a physical exam and based her dx on what we said as as well as her exam. I'm rural and don't have the luxury of multi vets to choose from :) if a vet tells me that a 15 week old dog has HD without even looking at an X-ray - me and my dog might be better off without this vet... http://vetsurgerycentral.com/jps.htm ...it seems your vet is just after the $$$$... ETA: check for ticks (everywhere, ears, paws...)...when did the dog got his last vaccination and what was it (C3, C5, C6/7)? Edited October 6, 2016 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Sorry but the vet is an idiot if there saying no x rays until just prior to surgery this is not how its done,they should have been done sooner,you had a chance to discuss & understand what is wrong or NOT wrong & discuss with your breeder.You have lost atleast 4 days of this process in which time the X rays would have been sent to the traveling specialist to look over Your dog could simply need a visit to a chiro or bowen massage ,no jumping doesn't mean HD it can have many other factors.My big dogs get the runs when they have pulled muscles Reality is if your pup is over doing it then you need to manage it better & those factors can contribute to HD down the track . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Don't faint Willem but I agree with you. Get a 2nd opinion ASAP. Do not desex pup without good reason until growth plates have closed. Talk to your breeder and a good vet as it depends on breed and lines. 18 months plus is my usual recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 hi everyone, cross posted up in breed sub as well :) We have a 15 week old rottie pup named Titan. Gorgeous boy and loved by everyone in our family anyway my question... JPS business is such a racket that one club gundog breed) has a warning on its website against people being suckered.....you need to see a specialist...........what dose your breeder say? Avoid early desexing at all costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Goodness! Links would be appreciated please dragonwoman - I'm horrified!!! Never heard of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'n'them Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Breeder hasn't had any experience with JPS so is as knowledgeable as I am on the topic. They do not breed often and this is only their second litter in 5 years haven't had any other dogs come up with HD that they have been told about. Breeder was as stunned as we were. Specialist will be up here next week I can't get in to see him before then simply as he isn't here to see. I have rung and spoken with another Vet and they said JPS is a good thing he wasn't concerned about no xrays until the day of when a decision by the specialist would be made. Desexing was always on the cards to be done, not at this early an age tho. Vet said it could be done at time of xraying to avoid doubling up on going under. We had planned on doing it around 18months based on what I could find on rotti breed pages. I'm trying to do the best for our pup and make an informed decision. Hence asking in here for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I breed German Shepherds and the owners of a pup I bred had the JPS surgery suggested to them by the vet when they went for the pup's vaccination (she wasn't lame but had the typcial GSD puppy looseness in the hind end) They actually did xrays and said her hips were bad - I sent the same xrays to a specialist who said there was no issue at all. Anyway, my research into JPS at the time said IF the puppy showed severe signs of HD at that young age, the JPS procedure could be of benefit. If there was any hesitation that the puppy didn't have problem hips, there was no value in doing JPS as the other surgeries for HD available when the dog is fully grown are as, if not more, successful in ensuring the dog is pain free and sound - in the case it goes on to actually have a problem. There was no real disadvantages of the JPS aside from unnecessary surgery. I wouldn't go ahead if it was my pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'n'them Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 thanks Ish, thats kinda what we've been talking about that later surgery if needed would be the better option at least he'd be full grown and it'd be a definate not a possible/probable. the more i read the more i'm leaning to the wait and see. I'm only a pet owner not a breeder so only have experience with the pets we've had makes it very hard when the people you trust make recommendations the natural instinct is to trust them and accept their word. Our vet has been our vet for a long time and generally i wouldn't question her treatment options. But he is so young so I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The PennHip web site has a comment on this surgical procedure in their FAQs section, basically they say there is not enough rigorous evidence to recommend it, as it has not been demonstrated at this time that it makes a difference to outcomes for the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Please act with extreme caution . be sure the vet is the best one to position a puppy for the Xrays . do NOT desex early - this baby needs to have everything there to grow sturdy on . Take note of what breeders/show folks/experienced owners and those with vet knowledge have suggested. :) (and we really need photos! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 The PennHip web site has a comment on this surgical procedure in their FAQs section, basically they say there is not enough rigorous evidence to recommend it, as it has not been demonstrated at this time that it makes a difference to outcomes for the dog. Thank you Diva - I will use that link on my website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) From things that I hear, some vets seem to just jump to a Hip Dysplasia conclusion with large breed puppies like Rotty's and scream quick, we must do JPS! Have you spoken to your breeder as a first port of call? Can they recommend a vet you can take your pup to for a second opinion. I would absolutely insist on x-raying and examination of those x-rays by a specialist before considering surgery. I would also consider taking your pup to a greyhound chiro/muscle man and possibly a Bowen Therapist for examination. I have a bitch here who has very good hips, x-rayed and scored. While taking her in for vaccinations a couple of years ago the vet manipulated her back legs and declared that she was dysplastic in her left hip... I keep hearing stories of vets pushing for JPL on rottweiler puppies without due cause, and it really concerns me. Not saying without doubt that there isn't a cause in your case, it just concerns me how often I hear of vets jumping to that option, and I would certainly look into it further before going down that path, particularly if your pup is from a registered breeder and health tested lines. ETA: Sorry have read the rest of the thread now and I see that you have spoken to your breeder :) I also absolutely agree with not desexing him yet, he needs those hormones to grow properly, so you are correct in your desire to leave him to mature first. Also - good on you for doing extra research and asking for more opinions! Finally - as a rottweiler breeder, I have to say.... Photos???? Puppy Photos??? Why are there no photos?? :p Edited October 6, 2016 by Allerzeit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Your dog doesn't have HD until diagnosed sorry but to many vets are clueless & often misdiagnose . So what your saying is the specialist will be up,they will knock the dog out,keep under GA whilst they access the x rays consult with you ( i sure hope they are consulting you or are they hoping you will just be pressured ) & during this time your dog is under GA longer than it should be all because they wont knock the dog out now to see.What price tag are they charging for this crazy method . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 No way should that diagnosis be made without xrays. Don't desex him this young, especially if he does have joint issues. What does his breeder say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) Hi Jen, I've already responded in the rotti thread and only just saw this double post. I have pretty much said what most others are saying and some. Edited October 6, 2016 by Starkehre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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