Zencrate

[Papillon Kisses]

I saw this on FB last night and I too would be interested. I think though my girl is too far along with her intense thunder phobia. I used to play that cd but lost it somewhere in between moves. I also turn the radio up really loud, not sure that does anything. Our usual routine is I medicate her, Xanax and a beta blocker and just hold her really tight. DAP and thundershirts do nothing.

It is awful to see the severe anxiety. We have had good success with clomicalm, after trying xanax with no good results, plus other adjuncts too (DAP, thundershirt, music). I also allow sleeping in the bedroom when it is a bad thunder night. In a much better place now, but took a bit of trial and error, and I'm glad that the medications have helped. One day we might get off them.

It is. There was one which just dulled her faculties but I could still see fear in her eyes and I just held her. I can't remember what that one was now, but we did find one which just made her sleepy rather than dull.

One of these? http://fearfuldogs.com/acepromazine/

[Panto]

For the one that didn't work? It sounds like the same thing but I don't remember the brand/drug name, it was too long ago now.

[Papillon Kisses]

For the one that didn't work? It sounds like the same thing but I don't remember the brand/drug name, it was too long ago now.

Yeah, the one that didn't work. When you mentioned "dulled but still anxious" I immediately thought of Ace. Whatever it was, you are an awesome dog owner to have picked up on the fact that your dog was still suffering and to have stopped it!

I hear you about the conditioned response to lightning, lol. Malcolm has GAD & canine OCD, and his compulsive behaviour is 'shadow chasing'. He fixates on light reflections/shadows and attacks them (or rather attacks our walls/cabinets/glass). Even in his absence whenever I see a light reflection my heart kind of skips a beat and I lose track of conversation as my brain kicks into 'must locate and eliminate the source before my dog reacts' mode.

[bianca.a]

I saw this on FB last night and I too would be interested. I think though my girl is too far along with her intense thunder phobia. I used to play that cd but lost it somewhere in between moves. I also turn the radio up really loud, not sure that does anything. Our usual routine is I medicate her, Xanax and a beta blocker and just hold her really tight. DAP and thundershirts do nothing.

It is awful to see the severe anxiety. We have had good success with clomicalm, after trying xanax with no good results, plus other adjuncts too (DAP, thundershirt, music). I also allow sleeping in the bedroom when it is a bad thunder night. In a much better place now, but took a bit of trial and error, and I'm glad that the medications have helped. One day we might get off them.

It is. There was one which just dulled her faculties but I could still see fear in her eyes and I just held her. I can't remember what that one was now, but we did find one which just made her sleepy rather than dull.

It really is plain horrible to see them in such a state of fear. Molly is so bad she associates heavy rain with thunder so that sets her off. We started giving her a beta blocker to stop a heart attack after a consult with a veterinary behaviourist. And because we are rural, a farmer shooting also triggers a strong fear response.

[betsy]

I saw this on FB last night and I too would be interested. I think though my girl is too far along with her intense thunder phobia. I used to play that cd but lost it somewhere in between moves. I also turn the radio up really loud, not sure that does anything. Our usual routine is I medicate her, Xanax and a beta blocker and just hold her really tight. DAP and thundershirts do nothing.

It is awful to see the severe anxiety. We have had good success with clomicalm, after trying xanax with no good results, plus other adjuncts too (DAP, thundershirt, music). I also allow sleeping in the bedroom when it is a bad thunder night. In a much better place now, but took a bit of trial and error, and I'm glad that the medications have helped. One day we might get off them.

It is. There was one which just dulled her faculties but I could still see fear in her eyes and I just held her. I can't remember what that one was now, but we did find one which just made her sleepy rather than dull.

It really is plain horrible to see them in such a state of fear. Molly is so bad she associates heavy rain with thunder so that sets her off. We started giving her a beta blocker to stop a heart attack after a consult with a veterinary behaviourist. And because we are rural, a farmer shooting also triggers a strong fear response.

I know what you mean about the heavy rain - we experienced the same here. But actually on the meds the heavy rain anxiety has almost gone completely!

[Panto]

I saw this on FB last night and I too would be interested. I think though my girl is too far along with her intense thunder phobia. I used to play that cd but lost it somewhere in between moves. I also turn the radio up really loud, not sure that does anything. Our usual routine is I medicate her, Xanax and a beta blocker and just hold her really tight. DAP and thundershirts do nothing.

It is awful to see the severe anxiety. We have had good success with clomicalm, after trying xanax with no good results, plus other adjuncts too (DAP, thundershirt, music). I also allow sleeping in the bedroom when it is a bad thunder night. In a much better place now, but took a bit of trial and error, and I'm glad that the medications have helped. One day we might get off them.

It is. There was one which just dulled her faculties but I could still see fear in her eyes and I just held her. I can't remember what that one was now, but we did find one which just made her sleepy rather than dull.

It really is plain horrible to see them in such a state of fear. Molly is so bad she associates heavy rain with thunder so that sets her off. We started giving her a beta blocker to stop a heart attack after a consult with a veterinary behaviourist. And because we are rural, a farmer shooting also triggers a strong fear response.

I know what you mean about the heavy rain - we experienced the same here. But actually on the meds the heavy rain anxiety has almost gone completely!

This is why I wish we had started the meds sooner rather than later - it was like it started a dissociation with the cause of the fear and it wouldn't exacibate on itself!

PK - that's hilarious! We have good friends with a BC who chases light on a wall - they have this amazing wine cellar with a disco ball and when we go down there he barks for it to be turned on so he can play chasies with the pretty lights!

[Papillon Kisses]

Ah not hilarious in Mal's case, he gets really obsessive and riled up, and barks / lunges / attacks our walls. He completely loses it, is in a very negative emotional state and cannot focus on other things, or at least couldn't until he went on Prozac. For him it's not a game but a mental illness: canine compulsive disorder aka CCD. We call that OCD in humans but we can't ask the dog if there's obsessive thoughts paired with the compulsive behaviour.

CCD is sadly common in border collies compared with other breeds and usually has a locomotive component for them, like shadow/light chasing or fly snapping. If I were your friend I would be preventing that behaviour as for many dogs it starts off as a game and people laugh and encourage it, but it can suddenly without warning spiral into a severe mental illness that is hard to stop without medication. The dog spends their entire time fixating on lights/shadows. It's no longer fun for them.

Anyway, just my thoughts with any dog but especially those like border collies in which there can be a genetic predisposition. Their wine cellar certainly does sound amazing though!!

Here's an article about OCD in dogs: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_9/features/Dogs-With-OCD_20062-1.html

NB I feel the article goes into a bit too far with owner blaming: this stuff has genetic underpinnings and you can have done all the right things by your dog and he still gets it.

[The Spotted Devil]

I am not a fan of light or shadow chasing in dogs or cats. Have seen it go wrong too many times. Something that needs to be redirected ASAP. In the early stages challenging a dog mentally in their training can make a huge difference.

[fbaudry]

I am not a fan of light or shadow chasing in dogs or cats. Have seen it go wrong too many times. Something that needs to be redirected ASAP. In the early stages challenging a dog mentally in their training can make a huge difference.

Completely with you both TSD and PK.... Having lived with, and given his wings early, to a dog suffering from CCD that no medication and behaviour modification program could help, I'd be very wary of any hint of light chasing.

I'm quite alarmed at the number of toys using flashing lights / laser, some of which even controlled remotely so the owners can "interact" with their pets when they're away. Huge potential for disaster in my opinion.

[Panto]

That's a good point there PK. I've never seen that level of 'obsession' in him, whilst he loves it, once it's turned off he will happily interact back with people and walk outside and refocus. He's only young and if there's any chance it could go down that path they would put a stop to it - they may not be aware of the condition so I will pass that article onto them. For country folk, they're incredibly tuned to his welfare and give him a lot of priority, they'll certainly be interested in it. Thanks for sharing!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be callous about Mal's condition - it's great to hear you have it under control.

[Papillon Kisses]

Thanks Panto, and I know that would never be your intention. :)

I think there's a greater awareness of mental illness in dogs these days but we have a long way to go, especially when there's well-known trainers still using punishment on dogs including anxious ones and not referring dogs to VBs when they sorely need them.

I was aware of 'OCD' in dogs so have never played with laser pointers or light up flashing balls or encouraged the behaviour. When it first presented itself we immediately redirected him (after an initial moment of surprise / WTF is he barking and fixating on) and continued with that and environmental management, but in Feb this year it just spiraled. On a similar note I also redirect any prolonged licking of paws or anything else, and I personally would never teach spin/twirl to a dog or at least not one with anxious tendencies. But with the latter I acknowledge that I'm pretty risk averse and have a high-risk dog.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Papillon Kisses

[The Spotted Devil]

My Springers can get a little obsessive - and I do teach spin and twirl but it's a clearly CUED behaviour from the beginning. And they must listen and think about which way to turn....and I insert other behaviours such as back up, drop, sit, stand, sit pretty, hand touch etc. They never know what's coming up next. So it's thoughtful crazy rather than just crazy.

[betsy]

This is quite an old thread but I thought I might jump in again. I have been following the Zen crate progress in the US and it looks good, don't think they are at the shipping overseas stage yet though! I would be tempted. 

I still need to manage storm phobia, but have recently had some more success so I thought I would share in case others might be interested. Ziggy is still on the twice daily clomipramine which has made a positive difference, but there is still anxiety during storms (although no where near as severe). I had done some reading on the web and saw that some people (USA mainly) were having success with melatonin. So I tried it and it has been working really well for us. I only use it if I know there will be a bad storm or one has started. I did mention to the vet but they don't have a lot of experience here - I will follow up with them. I think you need to order from OS (USA) though as it is not easy to get in OZ, but able to buy OTC in US. 
 

 

[Lhok]

Looks very similar to the box my dad build my lab cross years ago so she wouldn't be scared in thunderstorms, although hers had a rubber flap at the front.

--Lhok

 

[persephone]

On 16/09/2016 at 9:14 AM, Papillon Kisses said:

CCD is sadly common in border collies compared with other breeds and usually has a locomotive component for them, like shadow/light chasing or fly snapping. If I were your friend I would be preventing that behaviour as for many dogs it starts off as a game and people laugh and encourage it, but it can suddenly without warning spiral into a severe mental illness that is hard to stop without medication. The dog spends their entire time fixating on lights/shadows. It's no longer fun for them.

 Agree .