Rspca Euthanasia Stats 2015- 2016

[The Spotted Devil]

Same. I'm not sure how you assess separation anxiety in a kennels but it seems to be common reason for PTS. As does "behavioural" with no explanation.

Sometimes it's owner reported and very severe. Or the dogs have gone into foster care and it's come to light. Or the dog has been rehomed and bounced back. Clinic notes attached to each case are generally quite extensive in my experience. You can't put all that info into a drop down menu that is part of a shelter database system.

Edited September 8, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[The Spotted Devil]

Same. I'm not sure how you assess separation anxiety in a kennels but it seems to be common reason for PTS. As does "behavioural" with no explanation.

Some of the no explanation is unassisted death - you have to look across the line.

Sure doesn't make the staffies look good does it?

Same issues with Staffies in Vic but they're some of the most popular breeds with shelter staff and management. Everyone knows they are a popular dog in the community. Hence you get more proportionally in the shelter.

[Willem]

...the more interesting data IMO can be found here:

https://www.rspca.org.au/sites/default/files/website/The-facts/Statistics/RSPCA_Australia-Report_on_animal_outcomes-2014-2015.pdf

The document shows, that 1 out of 100 Australien dogs (approx.) end up in pounds - is this number / ratio too high?...IMO not necessarily considering that dog owners die, have accidents or end up in age care where dogs are not allowed (BTW: 1 out of 100 Australiens approx. end up in age care ...to put the '1 to 100 ratio' in some perspective...)... those dogs end up in the pounds and it happens all over the world and it is one of the reasons pounds exists.

The source also show far more interesting data, e.g. table 3: behavioural issues are by far the most frequently reason why dogs are pts!

That's interesting! Why?...because there is strong scientific evidence that de-sexing can actually lead to severe behavioural issues. What puzzles me is that 'fear phases' in dogs are well known amongst dog handlers, behaviourists with and without PHD etc., however, it seems that no one ever thought it would be 'interesting' to know what impacts early de-sexing has on a dog that goes through a fear phase?...What happens if you play havoc with a dog's hormone system by neutering him?....since 1 year I try to find a study that sheds some light...didn't find anything.

So while obviously a lot of damage can be done to a dog during a fear phase just by handling the dog the wrong way, it seems to be very, very unlikely that neutering a dog, thus interfering heavily with their hormones, while going through a fear phase won't have any negative effect wrt behaviour. Can the RSPCA answer this question? ...I doubt it...still they promote early de-sexing...just to whinge about all the dogs they have to put down due to behavioural issues that are caused by????

(....found that I'm still a member here, so thought I throw this in in the hope that someone find a study about early de-sexing during a fear phase and impact on behaviour.)

Edited September 8, 2016 by Willem

[The Spotted Devil]

...the more interesting data IMO can be found here:

https://www.rspca.org.au/sites/default/files/website/The-facts/Statistics/RSPCA_Australia-Report_on_animal_outcomes-2014-2015.pdf

The document shows, that 1 out of 100 Australien dogs (approx.) end up in pounds - is this number / ratio too a high?...IMO not necessarily considering that dog owners die, have accidents or end up in age care where dogs are not allowed (BTW: 1 out of 100 Australiens approx. end up in age care ...to put the '1 to 100 ratio' in some perspective...)... those dogs end up in the pounds and it happens all over the world and it is one of the reasons pounds exists.

The source also show far more interesting data, e.g. table 3: behavioural issues are by far the frequently reason why dogs are pts!

That's interesting! Why?...because there is strong scientific evidence that de-sexing can actually lead to severe behavioural issues. What puzzles me is that 'fear phases' in dogs are well known amongst dog handlers, behaviourists with and without PHD etc., however, it seems that no one ever thought it would be 'interesting' to know what impacts early de-sexing has on a dog that goes through a fear phase?...What happens if you play havoc with a dog's hormone system by neutering him?....since 1 year I try to find a study that sheds some light...didn't find anything.

So while obviously a lot of damage can be done to a dog during a fear phase just by handling the dog the wrong way, it seems to be very, very unlikely that neutering a dog, thus interfering heavily with their hormones, while going through a fear phase won't have any negative effect wrt behaviour. Can the RSPCA answer this question? ...I doubt it...still they promote early de-sexing...just to whinge about all the dogs they have to put down due to behavioural issues that are caused by????

(....found that I'm still a member here, so thought I throw this in in the hope that someone find a study about early de-sexing during a fear phase and impact on behaviour.)

There's no way of knowing at what age dogs were desexed. Now I'm not disagreeing with you that desexing early can cause issues but there are conclusions drawn that go both ways. One of the risk factors for dogs entering shelters in a large study was if the dog was entire. Now personally I suspect that this is too simplistic. But this might be best suited for a separate discussion.

ETA: It's super difficult to conduct sound scientific studies on the CAUSAL effects of desexing which is why you can't find any :D

Edited September 8, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[melzawelza]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

[Steve]

It's incomplete data plain and simple that focuses on an emotive topic in an attempt to present RSPCA in the worst possible light.

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

Bloody hell FOR ME its about the dogs and the breeds and Euthanasia - the fact that its a list from the RSPCA isnt an issue for me and I would be just as interested if it was any list that itemised what breed type was being PTS and why form any pound or shelter- Because so far Ive never seen one.

Of course I dont want the shelter to not record breed or breed type but dont tell me that the breed type isnt linked to dogs that come in go out and die.

You had already decided when you came in here that my interest was about making the RSPCA look bad and the fact that Im telling you that's not what I was thinking or why I was interested wont make a scrap of difference.

Why you think this would make the RSPCA present in the worst possible light is beyond me as for ME it shows that they didnt just pop them off because there was no room at the inn or because they couldn't find them a home and I assume because they are there on the spot taking advice form vets that what they do they do because they have to.

[The Spotted Devil]

It's incomplete data plain and simple that focuses on an emotive topic in an attempt to present RSPCA in the worst possible light.

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

Bloody hell FOR ME its about the dogs and the breeds and Euthanasia - the fact that its a list from the RSPCA isnt an issue for me and I would be just as interested if it was any list that itemised what breed type was being PTS and why form any pound or shelter- Because so far Ive never seen one.

Of course I dont want the shelter to not record breed or breed type but dont tell me that the breed type isnt linked to dogs that come in go out and die.

You had already decided when you came in here that my interest was about making the RSPCA look bad and the fact that Im telling you that's not what I was thinking or why I was interested wont make a scrap of difference.

Why you think this would make the RSPCA present in the worst possible light is beyond me as for ME it shows that they didnt just pop them off because there was no room at the inn or because they couldn't find them a home and I assume because they are there on the spot taking advice form vets that what they do they do because they have to.

Actually I was talking about the person who took the data originally. But hey.

[Steve]

double post

Edited September 8, 2016 by Steve

[The Spotted Devil]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

Edited September 8, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[Steve]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

Its called a microchip but every microchip in this country is also linked to a breed.

[melzawelza]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

The one I read about most recently was Fairfax Animal Shelter (awesome shelter, live release rate usually of 95%+), had a google and found this which seems to indicate they are removing breed labels from the software for adoptable dogs, but doesn't talk about strays etc. https://animalfarmfoundation.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/removing-breed-labels-easier-than-you-think/

I see what you're saying re lost dogs but the flip side is there have been numerous cases of dogs labelled by shelter staff as "X cross" and owner rings up asking if they've found a "Y cross" and the answer is no... but it was the same dog with two different breed labels given. To me it would be much less risk-fraught to instead ensure that all lost pets are listed online with good, clear pictures on the day they arrive.

[The Spotted Devil]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

The one I read about most recently was Fairfax Animal Shelter (awesome shelter, live release rate usually of 95%+), had a google and found this which seems to indicate they are removing breed labels from the software for adoptable dogs, but doesn't talk about strays etc. https://animalfarmfoundation.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/removing-breed-labels-easier-than-you-think/

I see what you're saying re lost dogs but the flip side is there have been numerous cases of dogs labelled by shelter staff as "X cross" and owner rings up asking if they've found a "Y cross" and the answer is no... but it was the same dog with two different breed labels given. To me it would be much less risk-fraught to instead ensure that all lost pets are listed online with good, clear pictures on the day they arrive.

Yes I agree - although I think our system here makes it more difficult with large shelters bidding for pound contracts. Makes it very unwieldy.

ETA: from your (excellent) link, I think this is great, really great: 3. Ask your shelter software provider if they can remove breed labels from adoptable dogs online. We use a provider that is able to remove the public labels on adoptable dogs (even though they will not remove the breed labels entirely).

Just to be clear the information released in the OP was from an internal document

Edited September 8, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[asal]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

The one I read about most recently was Fairfax Animal Shelter (awesome shelter, live release rate usually of 95%+), had a google and found this which seems to indicate they are removing breed labels from the software for adoptable dogs, but doesn't talk about strays etc. https://animalfarmfoundation.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/removing-breed-labels-easier-than-you-think/

I see what you're saying re lost dogs but the flip side is there have been numerous cases of dogs labelled by shelter staff as "X cross" and owner rings up asking if they've found a "Y cross" and the answer is no... but it was the same dog with two different breed labels given. To me it would be much less risk-fraught to instead ensure that all lost pets are listed online with good, clear pictures on the day they arrive.

yes better to be asking have you seen a male/female of x colour, size and markings rather than say breed, so many havnt a clue as to the breed , even at dog shows I have seen an amazing number of people not have a clue what breed they are looking at.

was admiring a stunning Kerry and complimented his owner on how nice he was. she said I was the first person to know what breed he was all day. n that was at a dog show. what chances of that happening at a pound?

these days anything with a kink in its coat is presumed to be an oodle of one of the zillions of possible crosses

Edited September 8, 2016 by asal

[Xyz]

...the more interesting data IMO can be found here:

https://www.rspca.org.au/sites/default/files/website/The-facts/Statistics/RSPCA_Australia-Report_on_animal_outcomes-2014-2015.pdf

The document shows, that 1 out of 100 Australien dogs (approx.) end up in pounds - is this number / ratio too high?...IMO not necessarily considering that dog owners die, have accidents or end up in age care where dogs are not allowed (BTW: 1 out of 100 Australiens approx. end up in age care ...to put the '1 to 100 ratio' in some perspective...)... those dogs end up in the pounds and it happens all over the world and it is one of the reasons pounds exists.

The source also show far more interesting data, e.g. table 3: behavioural issues are by far the most frequently reason why dogs are pts!

That's interesting! Why?...because there is strong scientific evidence that de-sexing can actually lead to severe behavioural issues. What puzzles me is that 'fear phases' in dogs are well known amongst dog handlers, behaviourists with and without PHD etc., however, it seems that no one ever thought it would be 'interesting' to know what impacts early de-sexing has on a dog that goes through a fear phase?...What happens if you play havoc with a dog's hormone system by neutering him?....since 1 year I try to find a study that sheds some light...didn't find anything.

So while obviously a lot of damage can be done to a dog during a fear phase just by handling the dog the wrong way, it seems to be very, very unlikely that neutering a dog, thus interfering heavily with their hormones, while going through a fear phase won't have any negative effect wrt behaviour. Can the RSPCA answer this question? ...I doubt it...still they promote early de-sexing...just to whinge about all the dogs they have to put down due to behavioural issues that are caused by????

(....found that I'm still a member here, so thought I throw this in in the hope that someone find a study about early de-sexing during a fear phase and impact on behaviour.)

Oh William how unusual of you to bring up the whole desexing debate......

[The Spotted Devil]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

Its called a microchip but every microchip in this country is also linked to a breed.

And not every dog is microchipped. Or up to date.

[teekay]

Same. I'm not sure how you assess separation anxiety in a kennels but it seems to be common reason for PTS. As does "behavioural" with no explanation.

That was the one that stood out for me too. First, as you say, how do they asses in a shelter situation and secondly if the owners surrendering said dog knows about and reports the separation anxiety why can't they do the kindest thing and take them to be euthanised themselves. If the dog get so anxious when it's humans aren't there then damn well make sure you are there till the end.

[The Spotted Devil]

Same. I'm not sure how you assess separation anxiety in a kennels but it seems to be common reason for PTS. As does "behavioural" with no explanation.

That was the one that stood out for me too. First, as you say, how do they asses in a shelter situation and secondly if the owners surrendering said dog knows about and reports the separation anxiety why can't they do the kindest thing and take them to be euthanised themselves. If the dog get so anxious when it's humans aren't there then damn well make sure you are there till the end.

You should see the old, old dogs that people drop off or the ones KNOWN to be human or dog aggressive. Some people just can't face reality. The number of dogs surrendered on Christmas Eve left me gobsmacked. That one really hit me hard.

Edited September 8, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[Willem]

...the more interesting data IMO can be found here:

https://www.rspca.org.au/sites/default/files/website/The-facts/Statistics/RSPCA_Australia-Report_on_animal_outcomes-2014-2015.pdf

The document shows, that 1 out of 100 Australien dogs (approx.) end up in pounds - is this number / ratio too high?...IMO not necessarily considering that dog owners die, have accidents or end up in age care where dogs are not allowed (BTW: 1 out of 100 Australiens approx. end up in age care ...to put the '1 to 100 ratio' in some perspective...)... those dogs end up in the pounds and it happens all over the world and it is one of the reasons pounds exists.

The source also show far more interesting data, e.g. table 3: behavioural issues are by far the most frequently reason why dogs are pts!

That's interesting! Why?...because there is strong scientific evidence that de-sexing can actually lead to severe behavioural issues. What puzzles me is that 'fear phases' in dogs are well known amongst dog handlers, behaviourists with and without PHD etc., however, it seems that no one ever thought it would be 'interesting' to know what impacts early de-sexing has on a dog that goes through a fear phase?...What happens if you play havoc with a dog's hormone system by neutering him?....since 1 year I try to find a study that sheds some light...didn't find anything.

So while obviously a lot of damage can be done to a dog during a fear phase just by handling the dog the wrong way, it seems to be very, very unlikely that neutering a dog, thus interfering heavily with their hormones, while going through a fear phase won't have any negative effect wrt behaviour. Can the RSPCA answer this question? ...I doubt it...still they promote early de-sexing...just to whinge about all the dogs they have to put down due to behavioural issues that are caused by????

(....found that I'm still a member here, so thought I throw this in in the hope that someone find a study about early de-sexing during a fear phase and impact on behaviour.)

Oh William how unusual of you to bring up the whole desexing debate......

...the title of the thread is "Rspca Euthanasia" so I believe my comment is not off-topic...there is enough scientific evidence that allows to link de-sexing to a negative impact on endoctrine imbalances and low thyroid levels: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx ....and there is enough evidence to link a low thyroid level to dog behaviour issues: http://www.dogs4dogs.com/JR_Articles/dog-thyroid-and-behavior.htm ...and here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8175472...

now you can ignore the correlation between dogs with behaviour issues in the pounds that need to be pts and stick to the promoted de-sexing regime to ensure that the same issues can be discussed over the next years without any change ....or you start thinking why other countries where de-sexing isn't promoted the same way as it is in the US and Australia have less problems with anxieties in dogs.....and why other countries with a ratio of less than 7% dogs de-sexed have no problems with overpopulation...

...the links and signs are all out, what's missing is a specific study that assess the impact of interrupting a dog's normal development of his hormone system when he goes through one of his fear stages.

here the "RSPCA view" on de-sexing:

The RSPCA practices early age desexing from the age of eight weeks, when the surgery is simple and the recovery is rapid. This ensures cats and dogs cannot produce any unwanted/unplanned litters, reducing the number of unwanted companion animals in the community and thus the number of animals entering shelters and pounds. This will in turn help to reduce high euthanasia rates.

...'from the age of eight weeks'....and when does the first fear imprint period starts?????

Edited September 8, 2016 by Willem

[The Spotted Devil]

Shelters also have a LEGAL level of responsibility. You'll never hear about it but insurers have certainly paid out where a shelter has knowingly re-homed an aggressive dog.

And shelters have to make decisions about where they spend resources too - X on Dog A with severe HD or X on 6 other dogs.

You don't have to defend them to me - I know what they do and why and I wasn't attempting to show they were doing anything wrong etc . I don't want everything saved and the number was of no interest to me or I would have not been so interested because I can get the numbers already.

Only just saw this. It was a general comment.

[Little Gifts]

So do you want the shelter to NOT record breed as each dog enters the shelter?

There's a number of shelters in the USA doing just that unless breed is known (i.e dog surrendered with pedigree papers). There's enough evidence around now to show that shelter guesses as to breed mix are generally inaccurate at best, so it makes sense. Those shelters are really happy with the choice and seeing increased adoptions.

Interesting! But are they recording NO information about the dog in their database or just not putting it on the adoption pen notes - because that's a great idea. But what about dogs that are lost and found? Don't you need something to help people get their dogs back?

The one I read about most recently was Fairfax Animal Shelter (awesome shelter, live release rate usually of 95%+), had a google and found this which seems to indicate they are removing breed labels from the software for adoptable dogs, but doesn't talk about strays etc. https://animalfarmfoundation.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/removing-breed-labels-easier-than-you-think/

I see what you're saying re lost dogs but the flip side is there have been numerous cases of dogs labelled by shelter staff as "X cross" and owner rings up asking if they've found a "Y cross" and the answer is no... but it was the same dog with two different breed labels given. To me it would be much less risk-fraught to instead ensure that all lost pets are listed online with good, clear pictures on the day they arrive.

We have been going through this exact problem for weeks now. After mum died we had to rehome her cat. He's just your average tabby cat (desexed, microchipped and registered) but does have a distinct bullseye on his side. He escaped after 6 days of being confined indoors and we are 6 weeks on and there has not been one sighting of him. We have done repeated door knocks and letterbox drops around both locations. I used to go to the pounds every couple of days and look in person but now I check online every day - the 3 councils near me, RSPCA, AWL and a couple of specific lost and found pet sites on FB. Every now and then we will see a teensy pic of a cat that looks very much like him and I start calling and emailing. The RSPCA are by far the worst. One time I left 3 messages and 2 emails on day 1 trying to get more detail No response. Day 2 I upped the ante to match my desperation. What if his time was running out and he was going to be pts? I had no idea. And as the shelter was over an hour away simply hopping in the car wasn't an option. On day 3 I finally spoke to someone at another facility who transferred me through to someone at that facility and then someone else then went and looked at the actual cat and clarified it wasn't mum's boy. I would never want my pet to stay any longer than necessary in a pound but the details added for lost pets are so scant and the pictures are often small and dark that it is impossible to match online. And if they don't answer the phone or respond to messages for 48 hours what the hell are you supposed to do if you can't just drive there and check yourself? And some of the descriptors are interesting - who decides if your cat is a brown or a grey tabby? What if they are both or you don't know how to tell the difference? What about some identifying marks being included to help owners pinpoint what is not showing in the pictures? If the pictures were clearer I wouldn't even need to bother them with my queries. Same issue happened with a lost and found FB page. From the pic we thought we had found the cat only to find out the finders knew its history back to it being a kitten. A waste of a lot of phone calls and emails and not good for my stress levels.