Victorian Dog Breeders Getting Ready To Move Interstate

[Steve]

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Victorian dog breeders are moving their operations over state lines ahead of the Andrews Government's next tranche of proposed laws aimed at cracking down on puppy farms.

One of the state's biggest breeders, Banksia Park Puppies, has teamed up with a Melbourne pet shop to buy a half-a-million dollar property to breed dogs in New South Wales, just 30 kilometres over the Victorian border.

It comes as the government prepares to introduce the second stage of a suite of new laws aimed at stamping out industrial-scale puppy breeding. They include restricting the number of breeding dogs to 10 by 2020, and banning pet stores from selling puppies that do not come from rescue shelters.

The proposed reforms have infuriated some dog breeders and pet shop owners, but the government maintains the changes will impact only a handful of the more than 10,000 registered breeders in Victoria.

Banksia Park owner Matt Hams is campaigning against the legislation, arguing the 150 dogs he breeds in Gippsland are well looked after and that the government's proposal would force his business to shut down.

Mr Hams recently started a new company with Melbourne pet shop owner Nick Croom and the pair have bought 90-acre property north of Cobram in Finley, NSW. Berrigan Shire Council confirmed it has now approved Banksia Park's application to build a "dog breeding facility" for up to 100 dogs at the site.

nimal rights advocates say the move highlights a potential loophole that could allow interstate breeders to sell dogs online to customers in Victoria. Minister for Agriculture Jaala Pulford said she had been told about "a number of operators who have packed their bags and moved interstate" in anticipation of the new legislation, which is expected to go to parliament before the end of the year.

"That suggests to me that puppy farmers think we're going to get this right," she told Fairfax Media.

"There are people who are making a good buck out of this business and will be creative in trying to work around the rules."

Matt Hams said there were "no plans at the moment" to operate in Finley. "It'll depend completely on the outcome here in Victoria," he said.

"This is certainly where we want to stay but we have to be realistic about the government policy and the things that are happening within our industry."

Mr Hams, who is the breeding director of the Pet Industry Association of Australia, said he intended to keep selling puppies but that he would "only ever operate somewhere where we can [do so] in the confines of legislation".

"The specifics of who we sell to and how we sell will really be dependant on government policy and a lot of factors," he said.

"We don't know what kind of restrictions will be imposed on the sale of puppies."

Pines Pets owner Nick Croom, who only sells dogs supplied by Banksia Park, said his customers would have to drive across the border to buy puppies if the law changed.

"We won't sell online as such," Mr Croom said. "If the Victorian government get through what they're talking about we won't be allowed to have a retail shop ... so people will have to travel to Finley to view the puppies."

"If the government turn breeders into amateurs and make them have less than 10 dogs then we won't have a business here."

Debra Tranter, founder of Oscar's Law, said the fact that breeders were moving out of Victoria highlighted the need for consistent laws in all states that were tougher on puppy farmers.

"Mr Hams' behaviour has proven two things," Ms Tranter said. "That the legislation, if passed, will work in closing down Victorian puppy factories, and that we must continue to lobby every state government until we achieve nationally consistent legislation."

Ms Pulford said the government was keen to capture the growing area of online puppy sales but that stopping breeders in other states was not possible.

"Our legislation will regulate puppy breeding in Victoria and I hope that other states will look at what we are doing and think about their own arrangements, but what's going on in other jurisdictions is beyond our control," she said.

The Andrews government has already brought in laws that limit breeding dogs to five litters and require pet shops to keep records on every dog and cat it sells. It has also provided $5 million to the RSPCA to set up a unit to investigate and prosecute illegal puppy farms.

[Steve]

How the bloody hell do they seriously think they can stop interstate breeders selling puppies to people who live in Victoria ?

Are Victorian residents not able to have a right to purchase a puppy of their choice from a source of their choice? How is this O.K. via our FEDERAL consumer laws?

[Jed]

NSW can enact similar laws to Vic and I believe, soon will. Qld is currently working on legislation.

Banning the sale of pups in pet shops is the best thing to happen. Puppy farmers will have problems selling all their pups without pet shop sales.

[Steve]

NSW cant enact laws like Victoria - yet- and will not soon as its already passed through the process via parliamentary enquiry in this state quite recently. Dog breeders in NSW are able to continue to own as many dogs as they want and sell them where ever they want because in NSW dog breeding is still a legal activity without the need for a licence.

If queensland goes down it will be because they haven't learned the lesson of victoria and rather than fight they will go along in the belief that it wont ever affect them and lay down while they introduce a state wide permit system - modelled on a pilot program on the gold coast that failed.Once that permit system is in then it become illegal to breed puppies unless you have a permit and they can change the rules any old time they like.

If Victorian breeders move to NSW and help us to fight against licensing ever coming in for this state which has caused their downfall and the removal of consumer rights to purchase a puppy of their choice from a source of their choice in that state and removing the rights of dog breeders who want to own more than 10 fertile dogs the more that come across the border the better.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Steve

[indigirl]

Do they mean limiting it to 10 breeding bitches ir 10 dogs inc stud dogs?

[alpha bet]

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

Edited September 5, 2016 by alpha bet

[Lhok]

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

I can only speak about the people I know who are BYB but the rules wouldn't affect them either due to the fact that most of them only have 1-2 dogs so a vast amount of them would continue to churn out the pups every time the bitch comes into season like they do now.

--Lhok

[Steve]

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

Not sure what you mean.

The proposed legislation in Victoria is a ban on anyone owning more than 10 fertile dogs regardless of them having a domestic animal business. Currently anyone who owns more than 10 fertile dogs in Victoria does have to have a Domestic animal business and have to show they have correct facilities. How will you be providing councils any more opportunity to crack down on anyone who owns more than 3 as they already need a permit in Victoria and the council and RSPCA already have legislation to crack down on illegal puppy farms.

To suggest that everyone who owns more than 10 fertile dogs is running a business because their SPARE time is showing and breeding is way off the mark. I can have 10 fertile dogs and not show at all or I can have 10 fertile dogs and only breed one or two litters a year .I can have 10 fertile dogs which I show and NEVER breed, and ANKC breeders dont have a monopoly on having rights to own and breed dogs. Someone who owns 10 fertile great danes can turn over half a million a year and someone who won 10 fertile chis around $40,000 and you dont need a degree to work out EVERYTHING about caring for a giant breed is different to a toy breed.

This isnt about keeping dogs in an acceptable manner - its about limiting the number of dogs you can own regardless of what breed they are, whether you want to breed them or not, whether you are at home 24 hours a day or 1 hour a day, whether you are in good health or bad, whether you have people living with you or working with you.

Everyone is affected by the rules - those breeders who have more than 10, those who one day may want more than 10, those who want to be able to get a puppy from a breeder of their choice etc. Those who may have a fertile dog and waiting for them to be cleared for their health before they breed them, those that may want to keep some to pick the best as they mature to breed with and a whole bunch of other things.

There is no evidence to suggest that more puppies sold in pet shops get dumped than any other source or that making it harder to find a pup in a pet shop is not going to make it easier to find them on every street corner bred by more people who have less dogs and dont know a thing about what they are doing.

[alpha bet]

Lhok, we can never stop the breeder who breeds one or two litters a year... however they are still required to follow the rules about having pups microchipped/vaccinated before rehoming as well as restricting their ability to advertise ... If they don't they can be reported to the local council and Dept of Ag. -

If all breeders ensure we educate the public about these requirements then we can chip away at the small BYB.... however with the bigger BYB's we can now have the regulations to limit their activity and advertising. ANKC breeders can (and should) report people breeding without the required permits.

[Steve]

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

I can only speak about the people I know who are BYB but the rules wouldn't affect them either due to the fact that most of them only have 1-2 dogs so a vast amount of them would continue to churn out the pups every time the bitch comes into season like they do now.

--Lhok

Yep and they dont have to comply with any codes or laws for breeding dogs.

[Steve]

Lhok, we can never stop the breeder who breeds one or two litters a year... however they are still required to follow the rules about having pups microchipped/vaccinated before rehoming as well as restricting their ability to advertise ... If they don't they can be reported to the local council and Dept of Ag. -

If all breeders ensure we educate the public about these requirements then we can chip away at the small BYB.... however with the bigger BYB's we can now have the regulations to limit their activity and advertising. ANKC breeders can (and should) report people breeding without the required permits.

Again not sure what you mean they already have these requirements except the ability to advertise restricted . If you restrict their ability to advertise you restrict everyone's and you cant find a puppy when you want one.

Edited to add currently anyone who has two fertile dogs is not considered a breeder so they only have to comply with codes for keeping dogs not any of the codes for breeding. There is no suggestion this will be changed.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Steve

[Steve]

I spoke with a breeder yesterday who tells me they will be placing fertile dogs in guardian homes, if they bring them home 2 at a time or even if they bring more than that home at one time and they are registered in the guardian home name they can still whelp them raise them and sell them from their property anyway and always be under the radar - at any time they could have 50 or so puppies on their property and still only have 2 fertile dogs at any time. This means puppies will be taken off their Mums quicker too.

Lots of loopholes turning up if they proceed with restricting how many you can own.

[Sheridan]

If the legislation goes country wide.... then we have a situation that any larger breeder (ANYONE with more than 10 fertile dogs) will have to have approval with their local council and meet the requirements for a Domestic Animal Business. No pet shops means that we reduce the spur of the moment buyers, especially those wanting pups for xmas or valentines day.... even people who want to go online to seek a pup will have to spend a bit more time and effort to source a pup.

We will also be providing the councils with the opportunity to crack down on the BYB's as if they have more than 3 entire dogs they will be required to have their Permit and on illegal puppy farms.

In truth any breeder who houses more than 10 fertile animals on their property is in fact then operating as a business. Even show people with more than 10 dogs are spending their entire spare time showing and breeding... So it is a business... even if non profit making... so they need to show they are operating in a professional manner. They would then be required to show that they have correct facilities to house the dogs and contain within their property and not be an annoyance to their neighbours.

For the vast majority of breeders and show enthusiasts (ANKC members), they would have less than the 10 dogs and hence not affected by the rules.

Don't have any problem with ensuring that people keep their dogs in an acceptable manner....

By the way I know exactly what is involved as I have a Domestic Animal Business registration for my own business for Boarding and running Training Classes. I could also apply for one as a Breeder except that I only house 4-6 entire dogs/bitches so I don't need one.

I'm not sure why you think that people sourcing puppies online will have to think more about it. The number of FB pet sales pages and puppyfarm websites alone that are not and will not ever be policed means they don't have to think about it other than a quick Google and click to buy.