Dog's Claw / Toe Nail Fell Out.

[BubbaBelushi]

Hoping for some advice here, 2 weeks ago my 10 y/o Mastiff's toe became swollen, a few days later his claw fell out completely including the quick/nerve/blood vessels just leaving a big hole (his feet are enormous, he weighs 85kg) in it's place.

We've seen 3 vets regarding this now, due to his age and other medical conditions (Cushings, hemophilia) they are all reluctant to surgery, so instead they have adopted a "wait and see" approach, his leg is bandaged (dressings changed daily) and he is on 3 sorts of anti-biotics (it's infected) and anti-inflammatories.

It's unclear if this was the result of a trauma, or an infection, or something else (autoimmune etc)

None of the vets had seen this before (they've seen heaps of broken nails etc, but none where both the nail and the quick etc all fell out leaving a hole), i am wondering if anyone here had come across it before and can let me know what to expect?

I know with his age and cushings he takes a long time to heal, i just was hoping for some sort of improvement by now but it's still just a hole.

I am also unsure how to approach, is just keeping him bandaged and on antibiotics indefinitely the way to go, or should i insist on surgery (which may mean amputation of his toe) despite his age and other conditions or something else?

My usual vets are very good and have always taken good care of him, i just don't like the idea of him having an open wound/hole on his foot.

Thanks!

Edited August 29, 2016 by BubbaBelushi

[Papillon Kisses]

Hi there! Given both the rarity of the problem and your dog's comorbid conditions I would ask for a referral to a specialist veterinary clinic. Where abouts do you live roughly?

[BubbaBelushi]

Hi Papillon Kisses, thanks, do they have specialists in this area for dogs?

I'm in Dural in the Hills district (North West Sydney).

Edited August 29, 2016 by BubbaBelushi

[Papillon Kisses]

I'm not sure what type of specialist you'd need. I'm assuming orthopedics / orthopedic surgeon, but given the cushings and hemophilia there's an internal medicine component to it too. So ideally a referral clinic where there's different specialities that can talk to one another.

In your location I'd be going to the Animal Referral Hospital at Homebush. http://www.arhvets.com/

They have a Baulkham Hills location but I think that might just be an emergency hospital rather than a referral clinic/hospital.

There's a referral form on the website that you can get your regular vet to fill out. http://www.arhvets.com/veterinarians

[Scottsmum]

My boy has pulled both of his dew nails out on multiple occasions. If I'd have gotten him as a younger dog I'd have had them fixed but...They always seem to heal up fairly well & re-grow fairly well - but he doesn't have the other conditions you've mentioned.

I can recommend a good general practice vet in Dundas (a bit of a drive from Dural) if you like, otherwise ask one of the vets you've seen for a referral to a specialist at either Sydney Uni being or maybe SASH http://www.sashvets.com/

[Kavik]

There is also SASH

http://www.sashvets.com/

They are the only ones I've had experience with :)

posted same time as Scottsmum :)

Edited August 29, 2016 by Kavik

[Papillon Kisses]

As you can see by the second link, specialists aren't in competition with the regular vet but work together.

My dog has Addison's Disease (opposite of Cushings) and my GP vet initially had trouble confirming the diagnosis as it was presenting very strangely. So they sent my dog's case file to an internal medicine specialist at ARH who had my GP vet run some other tests before it was determined that my dog should come in for a consult.

So it might be that ARH (or another specialist hospital) upon seeing your dog's file agrees with the current approach or has some other things for your GP vet to try, without you even needing to come in. Conversely if amputation is required, I think I would have it done in a specialist hospital or with specialist input in consideration of your dog's age and comorbids.

[BubbaBelushi]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice everyone. I certainly don't mind driving if we need to (he's a good traveler, except for the slobber lol). I just want to make sure we get him the best care possible, having the open hole/wound concerns me a little.

I know his hair has stopped growing now because of the cushings (he still has the bald square from a surgery (skin tumor - local anesthetic) he had 6 months ago where they shaved him). So i assume the nail growth would be the same as the hair growth because if i recall my biology classes correctly they are the same material/mechanism.

With a normal dog the nail would regrow and plug the whole, but with my boy i don't think this is happening the way it should be so hence the concern.

Edited August 29, 2016 by BubbaBelushi

[PossumCorner]

BB have they ruled out Lupoid? It is pretty miserable for you whatever it is. Around 13 or so years back Frodo developed Lupoid when about 3. (He is a smallish poodleterriercav cross type, now aged around 16). We were 'lucky' that our vet had experience with it, and had a friend doing current vet research on it a Melbourne Uni. But Frodo had to have three or four nails surgically removed, and that is hell for them to go through. No doubt you have found most of the dog nail problem issues with google - I just came across this one which I hadn't seen before:

http://germanshepherdhealthproblemshere.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/hells-nails-symmetrical-lupoid.html

Frodo's nails did not fall out, they became horrendously infected, and it was some kind of immune syndrome, ABs didn't help. They certainly don't grow back once removed to that extent. And the pain is referred to in the literature - they were never positive whether the ongoing pain is 'real' or a bad pain memory from the disease.

I hope you can find a vet or specialist who is more up to date on the causes and treatment. Our vets said that greyhounds suffered from Lupoid quite a lot, and that it was thought in their case to be very much stress related as much as any more physical immune problem.

[BubbaBelushi]

Hi Possum,

SLO was something my Google results turned up and i did specifically ask one of the vets if it was SLO, she didn't think it was at that stage (iirc because only one nail is affected, and it wasn't soft or disfigured at all).

But the symptoms do seem to fit (infection, lots of pain, nail falling out for no apparent reason, quick came out as well). His claws are the size of my pinky fingers in width and he's an indoor dog that likes to just lie around on his queen mattress all day, it's hard to see how he could have possibly just broken it off at the very base without damaging the skin at all, or other surrounding toes.

My boy does have lots of other immune system sort of issues (cushings, edemas, also before he had cushings he used to get skin rashes and itches as well) so it would surprise me if it does turn out to be SLO. I am of course hoping that's not the case but I've upped his fish oil, B3 and vit E as a precaution.

Of course the worry is that because of his hemophilia i have to be careful with things like vitamin E and fish oil that can thin the blood at high doses.

Is there a specialist for dogs in the are of SLO in Sydney that anyone is aware of?

I figure my first priority is fixing the hole in his toe where the nail used to be, then i need to try and sort out if his immune system was involved.

Edited August 29, 2016 by BubbaBelushi