Help...unruly Dog

[phantomreptiles]

Just delete this post please.

I've sought professional help, I've spent over $2000 in the last few months on "help"

Edited August 30, 2016 by phantomreptiles

[persephone]

have you contacted a professional behaviouirist ? Jane Harper is in QLD>

has a vet behaviourist prescribed the prozac ?

Hopefully you can find a vet behaviourist who can help . You are correct - this has crossed a line .

Did she have a thorough vet check /scan for tumours in her brain /blood tests?

[phantomreptiles]

I've contacted several last year and most recommend euthanasia. At this stage, this is not an option.

Definitely no medical problems. No CT or MRI, but her actions displayed are purely behavioural. (Had full bloods, as is a blood donor)

She comes to work with me and has exposure to over 10 vets..I've worked in the veterinary industry for over 16yrs, so no stranger to dog behaviour.

[Papillon Kisses]

Have you actually had a consult with a veterinary behaviourist? 1000% recommend getting a consult as veterinary behaviourists have specialist knowledge that GP vets do not have. For example fluoxetine may be a great choice but may need to be paired with other medications for the best results. Additionally any medication must be paired with behavioural modification (training).

What is the soft muzzle like? Can she pant? Something like a Baskerville may be a better choice for walking and training.

[RuralPug]

Great advice has been given.

I really, really recommend a veterinary behaviourist, this is a job for a specialist, no matter how good your generalist vets are they will be the first to admit that a specialist is better in their speciality.

In your case I would not recommend a non-veterinary behaviourist.

Agree with PK about getting a basket style muzzle, wire or plastic, which will allow the dog to pant, to drink and to take small treats while wearing the muzzle. Soft muzzles are fine for indoor restraint for grooming o examination but really are not suitable for while the dog is exercising.

There are excellent descriptions of muzzle types here.

Let us know what the vet behaviourist recommends. Best of luck and I admire your determination to instil trust so she isn't constantly triggered to keep you safe from every other living thing.

[Animal House]

From reading your previous posts, this dog should have seen a veterinary behaviorist back when all this aggression started.

She's bitten the mower man, tries to bite the postie, lunges/growls at people on walks, and has now nipped you.

Her behaviour is escalating, that's a huge red flag to me.

I'd not be walking her without a good muzzle and keep her away from people on your walks, cross the road if you have to.

If the vet behaviorist recommends euthanasia, then that's what you need to do. If they recommend medication and a behaviour consult, then give it your best shot, but some dogs can't be fixed. You'd want to give yourself a time limit on how long you try with her with meds too.

If you are worried about living in a bad area, maybe get some home security (cameras and an alarm system) as well.

[Animal House]

Just wanted to add that you shouldn't be able to "get away with her behaviour" because you live in a bad area.

The air snapping and salivating with your cats is not good, please keep them separated for their (and your own) safety.

If it were my dog, it would have been pts already.

[Rebanne]

Just wanted to add that you shouldn't be able to "get away with her behaviour" because you live in a bad area.

The air snapping and salivating with your cats is not good, please keep them separated for their (and your own) safety.

If it were my dog, it would have been pts already.

me too, I wouldn't risk one of my animals just to keep another. They don't have to love each other and be best buddies but there's a line they can't cross and this dog is over it. Poor thing, it wouldn't be any fun living in such a state.

[phantomreptiles]

Ok, thanks for the replies. First off my cats are not in danger! They come first, and I've adjusted my behaviour so she doesn't get stimulated.

Second of all, this dog is "not a poor thing", she is exercised everyday and not in a stimulated state all the time.

[phantomreptiles]

Ok I will redefine things: I'm after positive help only

[Roova]

What have you done differently since suggestions on last post?

For example when walking her what do you do when you spot a person coming towards you, near you, beside you etc? Has your walking route changed?

Just out of interest if behaviourists have suggested pts but you disagree, what would she have to do to cross the line for you?

Edited to add this is a link to a magazine which focuses on force free animal training (the ABA principle). The article is about dealing with a reactive dog.

Control unleashed - The Reactive Dog

Im not a behaviourist but I believe if you keep putting her in a situation where she feels she has to react like going for walks with people around, you're just going to be cementing her reactions and you'll be giving yourself a lot more work to get back to an acceptable point.

If you don't wish to go down this avenue have you considered she might be a dog best left at home where she is much more stress free and the general public is a little safer? There are sooo many mental enrichment exercises you can do which will be just as tiring as a long walk and fun for both of you. They can be done night or day, inside or out, good weather or bad etc.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Roova

[Two Best Dogs!]

Definitely get a muzzle or you might find your choices taken out of your hands when she makes contact with someone. A soft muzzle is dangerous for walks, get a baskerville.

If not seeing a vet behavourist who can identify causes, triggers and what to look for that indicates you should leave now (versus leaving after a freak out occurs) etc - consider working with a trainer? At the least, a trainer could help set up fake daily life situations and you can work on training your dog/rewarding appropriate behaviour in a controlled environment.

Good luck

[Animal House]

Ok, thanks for the replies. First off my cats are not in danger! They come first, and I've adjusted my behaviour so she doesn't get stimulated.

Second of all, this dog is "not a poor thing", she is exercised everyday and not in a stimulated state all the time.

Every time you walk her she is in a stimulated state.

Can you do mental exercises/training with her instead?

It can be more tiring (and beneficial) than huge daily walks, where she will get physically stronger and only result in a wing physically tired out after, but it's doing nothing for her behaviour except reinforcing the bad stuff.

Brain games might be more helpful at this stage until the vet behaviorist has seen her, and you've tried the right medication (if it does help at all, no guarantees obviously)

[Animal House]

*result in being physically tired out

(Sorry, typo in the previous post autocorrected 'being' to 'a wing' )

[corvus]

Im not a behaviourist but I believe if you keep putting her in a situation where she feels she has to react like going for walks with people around, you're just going to be cementing her reactions and you'll be giving yourself a lot more work to get back to an acceptable point.

I am a behaviourist, and I agree. If things are not improving, then chances are you are in some way maintaining or even contributing to her problematic behaviour. The first step in just about any behaviour modification program is to take steps to prevent the behaviour in the first place if possible. If it is emotionally driven and you can't do that, the dog is just learning that this is how walks go. Even if her emotional response to her triggers change, she is likely to continue the problematic behaviour just through sheer classical conditioning. If that happens, things get quite difficult because you have to change the picture. If she continues to be triggered emotionally, then she is likely to become sensitised and the behaviour will probably spread to more contexts rather than contract to less. She needs a VB. Getting a lot of exercise doesn't require that she enjoy it.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I agree to try things other than walking. So many people think that to tire a dog out you need to exercise it more and more -- all this does is increase stamina until you end up with an energiser dog. Trust me, I've been there.

Try games like scent work or even just trick training to agility in your backyard. Using the brain will help tire her out too.

Definitely take her to see a vet behaviouralist and good on you for wanting to do everything you can for your girl. May I ask why you've said euth is not an answer? There are other things to try certainly, but sometimes it is sadly the best option. (Not saying you have to go there just yet though)

[phantomreptiles]

Thanks guys, yes I'm trying to include more mental stimulation. Currently I'm just doing the standard training. I think including scent training would definitely help. May someone please give me some tips on this?

And yes I know I tense up on walks when passing someone and shorten the lead, so giving cues to react.

[rubiton]

On walks are you trying to walk past? Are you pulling off to the side to stop and sit, do you have to make her face the other way so by playing up she sees nothing as the other dogs walk past? Look up The Pawman on facebook - he is also in Qld too another behaviourist to consider contacting

[phantomreptiles]

Thanks, I try to keep walking, eg ignore, keep going.

I definitely think more mental stimulation is the way. Given I'm lucky enough to have a very large yard, and her incredible sense of smell, scent training is perfect for her.

Can I perhaps get some tips in starting this?

(I won't discuss euthanasia, if however she injured a person, cat or dog, then decision made)

[phantomreptiles]

I'm quite disappointed in the responses. A lot of negatives, I've said euthanasia is not an option, unless she harms someone or something.

My walking route hasn't changed, but I've changed sides of roads with a great improvement.

I've a new postie, who I spoke to yesterday, yes she tried to get him, BUT he finds this with all dogs on his route. I've put my bins either side of the mail box and placed a fence to reduce her visual excitement. And thank goodness he has owned this breed before and knows they can be slightly property protective.

I've not got a muzzle yet, but find she really only reacts to darker skinned people. Of course I will still get a muzzle, but to be frank, sometimes in this area it's not a bad thing to have a dog that may lunge. Don't tell me I'm being irresponsible, you don't live here, you don't know what I can be subjected too!

Probably shouldn't of bothered saying anything more...

But comments on how to start out with scent training would be very gratefully accepted.