Need Some Advice

[Sheridan]

So, I've been having issues with Bunny. She is a barker, which I would like to put a stop to. She also has become fairly dog aggressive, particularly with small dogs and does referral aggression onto other objects. I understand this is frustration but it's also become habit, as she can do the referral when nothing else is going on. It doesn't help that she has the most annoying little brother ever. He winds her up. .

This has come about partly because next door has a new fence and now can't see out so is barking much more. Bunny is generally fine when the dog is over the other side of its yard but she has a meltdown when the dog comes over to our side, not least because there is stuff between the shed and the wall which makes a huge banging sound. Bunny is fairly noise sensitive. I've blocked off the fence on my side but of course, that's no use unless I can get the other side blocked off. I've been to the neighbours but they don't ever seem to answer the door. Besides this is my issue and need to resolve it myself.

Both have become reactive to cars in the street. I've tried playing car noises, car doors slamming from sound effects albums but none of them sound like those in the street.

Advice needed!

[The Spotted Devil]

Advice needed!

I'll try! Sorry for all the questions but it's important to have a clear understanding of what's going on.

So, I've been having issues with Bunny. She is a barker, which I would like to put a stop to.

What is she barking at or is it everything? I'm thinking from your post dog next door, dogs in the street, car noise...anything else? You do need to manage to stop her rehearsing the inappropriate behaviour because it is rewarding in and of itself as well as teaching what you want her to do. So this might mean supervised backyard run arounds, on leash walks, separating the two dogs and working with them individually, teach an incompatible behaviour like lying on their beds, playing crate games (I do this with 3 dogs!), giving feedback on what's appropriate e.g. in crate, bark, crate is covered up with sheet, stop barking, cover comes off, remain quiet and treat is delivered.

She also has become fairly dog aggressive, particularly with small dogs and does referral aggression onto other objects. I understand this is frustration but it's also become habit, as she can do the referral when nothing else is going on. It doesn't help that she has the most annoying little brother ever. He winds her up. .

I would walk them separately so he's not winding her up. You also need to work on your mechanics and you can't deliver timely rewards when you're struggling with two dogs. I often take 3 dogs somewhere in the car and get them out one by one to train and exercise. The LAT or "Look At That" game is awesome - have a quick google - it relies on counter conditioning. The most critical thing is giving her distance from whatever is sending her over threshold - and if she's over threshold she can't learn or take a treat. I love this game because the "trigger" to fear/aggression/arousal switches to an opportunity to earn rewards and play with the owner. It's brilliant.

This has come about partly because next door has a new fence and now can't see out so is barking much more. Bunny is generally fine when the dog is over the other side of its yard but she has a meltdown when the dog comes over to our side, not least because there is stuff between the shed and the wall which makes a huge banging sound. Bunny is fairly noise sensitive. I've blocked off the fence on my side but of course, that's no use unless I can get the other side blocked off. I've been to the neighbours but they don't ever seem to answer the door. Besides this is my issue and need to resolve it myself.

Both have become reactive to cars in the street. I've tried playing car noises, car doors slamming from sound effects albums but none of them sound like those in the street.

Again, you need to manage what you haven't trained and then show the dogs what you want them to do. So rather than "stop barking" you want them to lie on their beds quietly when they hear a car door. You might even enlist the help of friends who can park in your driveway - start slow and build understanding until you can rev car engines and the dogs chill. It is a fair amount of work if they've already had plenty of rehearsals. But what you put in you'll get out!

[Sheridan]

thanks, TSD. Please don't assume I'm not 'putting in'. I've tried loads of things. I do walk them separately already. The aggression is mainly at other dogs, usually same size or smaller. When they're wound up they won't take treats at all so getting them to sit on beds us very difficult. If I take out Bunny, Roo barks until we get home. I crate him and he can shift his crate across the room. Bunny recognises friends cars, BTW, and doesn't bark. She doesn't bark at my car.

[The Spotted Devil]

thanks, TSD. Please don't assume I'm not 'putting in'. I've tried loads of things. I do walk them separately already. The aggression is mainly at other dogs, usually same size or smaller. When they're wound up they won't take treats at all so getting them to sit on beds us very difficult. If I take out Bunny, Roo barks until we get home. I crate him and he can shift his crate across the room. Bunny recognises friends cars, BTW, and doesn't bark. She doesn't bark at my car.

No no no that's not what I meant at all! Just that it will be hard work. Ok - so my advice on working with the dog aggression stands - it really works BUT you have to get distance from the dog so she remains under threshold. Also you can run backwards and have her run towards you (practice at home) which puts her back to the dog if you get surprised.

At home - you need to find a distraction that is distracting enough to get them to fail (once you've built a pattern of success) but doesn't send them as over the top as the cars. Does that make sense? There needs to be a middle ground of distraction. For example my Springer has hysterics around water and can't think about anything except hunting ducks. So I started at home with a kiddy pool and built a whole lot of behaviours around that which I could transfer to the lake eg calling her past the water, releasing from a sit and building value for coming to heel instead of straight past me into the water, giving permission to get in the water, staying in there until recalled out. Then I took the kiddy pool to the lake and did the same thing 50 m away then closer and closer until we could do all the exercises using the lake itself - which was a Level 12/10 distraction originally.

[Roova]

Not sure if this is a help or hindrance but I was reading this recently and its similar to what TSD was saying. It may be relevant for the barking part? It probably depends on why Bunny finds barking reinforcing though. What is she getting out of it? All behaviour has meaning so you need to work out, is she bored, or maybe its attention from you (even negative attention like yelling)?

What I was reading was...If a dog barks and we go to them saying be quiet, stop that, the dog learns if they bark we will come. Therefore we have a dog which barks to get the caregiver to come. Instead choose an opposite behaviour which you will make equally reinforcing. If for example you go to the dog only when he is lying quietly on his bed, or sniffing in the yard and you ignore the bark, you then have a dog which learns 'not barking' gets it’s caregiver to come.

The bark loses it’s value to get us to come, and the new behaviour which is regularly reinforced increases.

It may take many repetitions of ignoring barking whilst waiting for the alternate desired behaviour but that is the challenge in training.

Trying to reinforce a dog for simply being quiet does not work as fast because quiet is not a behavior. A dog can be playing with a toy, sniffing, eating and all are “quiet”, so the dog may not understand what it did to cause us to show up when they are all “quiet” activities. It’s also easy for us to forget they are being good when they're quiet and not reinforce those quiet times - it slips our mind.

You therefore need a behaviour a dog can DO which will give them the same result as the behaviour you’re are trying to change. In other words dog lies on bed, he gets a visit, dog barks nothing happens.

It is very important to remember only behaviour which is reinforced continues, whether that reinforcement comes from you or something the dog is getting out of it. You have to be vigilant in regularly praising and rewarding (in whichever way your dog enjoys the most) the behaviour you want to see continue.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Roova

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes that's exactly right Roova! You risk building a behavioural chain.

Which is why, when I'm training all 3 dogs and I expect them to lie quietly on their beds until it's their turn (and well rewarded for doing so) that there is a cascading effect. For example, pup gets too excited and leaps off bed I use a collar grab to gently guide her back to her bed. No reward. Continue training other dogs and if she holds position verbal praise and pats. If she continues to hold position then she gets a treat. If she continues to bounce off the bed I will put her in a crate. You win the prize Ginny! :laugh: Bark? No problem. Cover the crate. When she's quiet the cover comes off. Continue training the other dogs. If she's quiet I let her out and ask her to lie on her bed. No treat but verbal praise and pats because I had to help her. Continue training dogs and only then will I reward her with a treat.

[Sheridan]

Okay, so here's one. Bunny barks hysterically if I go out the front door. Sorry, but I do have to do that sometimes. She's crated as is Roo and it doesn't matter if the crate is covered, if she in her bedroom crate or the crate in the loungeroom. One trainer said, give them something to occupy them. Toys don't work, treats don't worlk. Nothing works. I've tried everything. Bully sticks, pig's ears, kongs, deer ears/antlers, biscuits, everything. It's to the extent that if I pick up a plastic bag she barks because she associates it with me going out the front as that's where my bins are. She'll stop if I walk over to her but that's what she wants and me ignoring the behaviour doesn't stop it.

[The Spotted Devil]

Barking hysterically sounds a little like separation anxiety...? Has she always been like that? I've had a GSP puppy for a month (not mine) and she would melt down similarly and I had to start in real baby steps - just going out of sight and tossing treats in her pen. Maybe you need a behaviourist to give you some advice - it's very hard to help with extremes of behaviour without seeing the dog in action.

[Sheridan]

yes, quite possibly, though she settles down reasonably quickly. My issues with baby steps is that I do actually have to go out the front door. It's the only way out if the house so if I need to go shopping or just put something in the wheelie bins, that's the way I have to go. I had a guy come in and she's actually got worse. Treats do not work. Oddly, if I leave them crated when I go to work, there's no barking at all. It's when I have a plastic bag of rubbish or similar.

[The Spotted Devil]

Ah ok - so the bag is a trigger not the leaving. Is it the visual cue or the sound do you think? If you can go to work with no hysterics than I'd guess it's not sep anxiety. I wonder - could it be frustration that she wants to chase or catch or play with the bag? What if she's not in her crate?

[Roova]

Can you work with desensitisation when you don't have to really do anything?

Out of crate first.. pick up bag, put it down - treat/praise for calm behaviour. Move to picking up bag, walking a step, treat/praise calm behaviour. This will lead to opening the door and stepping outside etc. Then practice same steps in crate.

How many hours are they crated when you go to work?

Edited July 30, 2016 by Roova