Bulldogs 1953.

[Steve]

Well in my opinion hip scoring in most breeds is nothing more than a money making operation and hasn't shown to be of any benefit to our dogs even though it s been operating for 20 plus years. If a breeder does score its just a nice marketing tool. A dog with zero scores can throw a whole little of pups with crap hip and a dog with rotten scores can have babies that never have a problem. Its impacted by conformation, exercise, injury , diet , stress, metabolic issues,even right down to the diet and care of the grandmother etc . Not all scores are recorded and the list goes on. Its a waste of money and time and energy and it places focus on one issue.

So The nature of HD is that it is progressive and impacted by things way more than genetics and you have no clue as to why the dogs in the group were Xrayed so in one group people may only X ray their dogs when there is a problem so the incidence is high in another the breeders may be X Raying prior to breeding because their breed club has dictated they should throw their money down the drain.

In this case of this breed you may have a higher incidence of over weight or a high incidence of dogs which originate from one geographical area etc and this is just a fraction of why I think hip scoring is the rort of the century. Why on earth we should be bogged into and pushing so hard for the utilisation of a system which has shown it doesn't work and even if it did that we are looking at a minute improvement even if everyone only bred those with really low score in 40 plus years!

The MDBA is recommending that puppies are manipulated and checked at 6 and 12 weeks by a physical examination and at between 3 and 6 months of age are X rayed to see if there is any congenital issue regarding the shape of the hip socket before environmental factors get into the mix. This is also supplemented by record keeping and pedigree profiling and other fitness testing of breeding dogs.

But apart from all of that, in this breed HD is way down the list of things they should be working on in order to be able to say that they are showing progress with less dogs in their breed suffering from poor quality of life and when some other issues are beginning to show signs of improvement then thing such as HD will become less of a problem as a natural progression.

I am told that BB are healthier now than they were 20 years ago by the breeders. O.K. well someone needs to define what it is we are talking about when we say "health" and ' healthier" - perhaps some of us have different interpretation of "health" because for the ordinary every day person this is very difficult to see and they need to start talking about what these dogs suffered with 20 years ago that they no longer suffer with or they suffer less with.

The number one most urgent health issues breeders of this breed need to tackle is definitely not about prioritising HD.

[angelsun]

And did you notice that Tibetan Spaniels have worsened from 10.8% dysplastic over 50 years to 38.5% dysplastic for those born in the last five years? My goodness, are those US breeders breeding FOR dysplasia??

What you have there is the same as many other breeds. The "we don't have a problem so we don't have to test" mentality. Clearly there is a problem, but because there isn't testing there is a bigger problem. Then suddenly testing starts and breeders sit back and go 'uh oh' we have a problem.

I know of breeders of Irish Wolfhounds who are adement that there is no dysplasia in that breed and thats why they don't have to get hips/elbows exrayed. Really? Does this breed have no hip joint? Because ANY breed with the hip joint can be subject to dysplasia. It's NOT just hefty or giant breeds. Another friend of mine stopped an entire line of Shetland Sheepdogs because she had severe dysplasia in her foundation bitch that was not found until the bitch hit veterans. You can imagine the amount of pups and generations in that time span.

[The Spotted Devil]

I test hips, elbows, DNA test for PFK, PRA and Fucosidosis plus have an eye certificate done before mating. I don't think that testing is particularly common in my breed and I don't have 100% faith in hip scores. BUT it's better than nothing.

[sandgrubber]

But what fraction of British bulldogs are healthy? I'd guess it's much less than half. OFA stats show that 73% of BB's are dysplasic in the hips and more than a third are dysplasic in the elbows. http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html

The Finnish data show 32 of 1116 tested. Of 32, none had A grade hips, 1 had B, 5 had C, 12 had D, and 14 had F grade hips. Of 335 mortalities recorded, only 53 (16%) died of old age (average lifespan 9yr 8 mo). For the 335 in total, the average lifespan was 5 yr 11 mo.

I don't have a vested interest here but I just point out that if you have reported those stats correctly, out of a group of over 1,000 only 32 were hip scored. That is something like 3% and I would have to suspect the selection factor - I would guess that the only reason that they were xrayed and scored was a visible limp or impairment, I.e. the xrays were for diagnosis, not scoring for breed factors. Common sense tells us that if you at only going to look at scores of dogs visibly lame you are going to skew the data.

On the flip side, if I am wrong and there were 1116 bulldogs hip scored and only 32 did not have A grade hips then this breed obviously does not have a problem with hip dysplasia.

I have no problem with the mortality data, only 16% living to healthy breed expectancy is very sad indeed. Longevity and health should be on every breeder's list of aims.

I didn't do a great job reporting the Finnish KC stats on HD. I accepted the default (year of birth 2011-2016). No dogs born in 2015 or 2016 have had Xray results recorded. ...the numbers will probably rise in a few years. However, if you extend the period to 1990 you still find only 3% of dogs born have been scored. The distribution of scores doesn't much change though. For A,B,C,D, and E grades, respectively: 1%, 1% 17% 38% and 43%. I think there's something funny going on here. OFA stats also show more dysplasic than not . . . and very low numbers scored. The stats clearly show that hip scoring is not popular with BB owners. You find the same in many other breeds, eg., all the sight hounds. But the sight hounds generally show very low incidence of HD.. Bias is likely . . . but how much bias affects the stats is hard to judge.

[sandgrubber]

The number one most urgent health issues breeders of this breed need to tackle is definitely not about prioritising HD.

Agree . . . it's just the easiest problem to quantify. And I would not say a dog with D grade hips is healthy.

Given the grief Labs, GSDs, Rotti's etc. get about hip testing, it says something about bulldogs that their rotten hip scores are not treated as a major concern . . . ie., suggests that there are a lot of problems that are worse . . . .

However, the hip problems may be part of a whole complex of problems affecting BB's and other brachy breeds. From the textbook of small animal orthopoedics

CHAPTER 57

CONSTITUTIONAL DISORDERS OF THE SKELETON IN DOGS AND CATS

PETER F. JEZYK

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_57/57mast.htm#a

"Several breeds of dogs have characteristic features similar to those outlined for human achondroplasts that would place them in this category. These include the bulldogs, the Boston terrier, the pug, the Pekinese, the Japanese spaniel, and the Shih Tzu. The bony abnormalities observed in these include rhizomelic limb shortening and flared metaphyses, a depressed nasal bridge, and a shortened maxilla (resulting in their characteristic relative mandibular prognathism). They also have a small foramen magnum, and, especially in the bulldogs, there are often wedge- or hemivertebrae. These dogs tend to have upper airway problems associated with the facial conformation, including stenotic nares and overlong soft palates. The latter represents a normal soft tissue mass that has been translocated to an abnormal position by the bony anomalies. Elbow luxations and medial patella luxations occur and are probably associated with increased joint laxity, as in humans. Achondroplasia is an autosomal dominant disorder in humans (although exceptions have been reported) and appears to be an incompletely dominant autosomal trait in the dog.(74)"

Edited July 27, 2016 by sandgrubber

[Xyz]

http://gizmodo.com/english-bulldogs-have-reached-a-genetic-dead-end-1784475872?utm_medium=sharefromsite

Say no more...

[sandgrubber]

http://gizmodo.com/e...m=sharefromsite

Say no more...

great article . . . the study it refers to is well worth reading.

https://cgejournal.b...0575-016-0036-y

This points out that the breed comes out of a small founder population, dating back to 1860 or before. So it's no surprise that the OP's post, giving a life expectancy of 6 years in 1953. Most of the damage to the breed was done well before that. Also notable that the UC Davis study looked at sections of the genome that are strongly associated with immunity . . . and found that the BB has very high homozygosity and little genetic diversity in these regions. Not a prescription for health.

Edited July 29, 2016 by sandgrubber

[Sheridan]

Wouldn't say it squashes PDE. Jemima Harrison has an axe to grind, and misses a lot. In this case, she and others have missed the detail that the development of an unsound breed occurred long ago. She regularly forgets to observe that pugs, despite brachy problems, have relatively long lifespans (average around 12 yrs). Also seems more concerned about wrinkles than hips and elbows, and fails to consider ageing in her choice of photographic examples ... eg compare a 'times past' 2 yr old to a modern 8 yr old. These foibles don't negate the main point . . . many pedigree breeders have bred for extremes and let health go out the window. In some breeds, this is the norm, and you have no chance showing if you don't breed for extremes

Let's not forget that when Harrison visited DOL she admitted the example of the awful boxer wasn't actually a pedigree dog and wouldn't answer other questions. She hotfooted it away shortly after and never returned.

[Sheridan]

http://gizmodo.com/english-bulldogs-have-reached-a-genetic-dead-end-1784475872?utm_medium=sharefromsite

Say no more...

No, let's say lots more. I would like to see the press release that accompanied the study because I bet it will be almost word for word what it says in the article. The actual conclusion is of low diversity not no diversity.

[melzawelza]

http://gizmodo.com/english-bulldogs-have-reached-a-genetic-dead-end-1784475872?utm_medium=sharefromsite

Say no more...

No, let's say lots more. I would like to see the press release that accompanied the study because I bet it will be almost word for word what it says in the article. The actual conclusion is of low diversity not no diversity.

And? The diversity is so low in the breed that the significant health issues and poor longevity associated with the breed cannot be corrected without an outcross.

[Sheridan]

http://gizmodo.com/english-bulldogs-have-reached-a-genetic-dead-end-1784475872?utm_medium=sharefromsite

Say no more...

No, let's say lots more. I would like to see the press release that accompanied the study because I bet it will be almost word for word what it says in the article. The actual conclusion is of low diversity not no diversity.

And? The diversity is so low in the breed that the significant health issues and poor longevity associated with the breed cannot be corrected without an outcross.

Except it says might not will. It behooves the media and people who read these things and report them to actually report correctly.

[sandgrubber]

http://gizmodo.com/e...m=sharefromsite

Say no more...

No, let's say lots more. I would like to see the press release that accompanied the study because I bet it will be almost word for word what it says in the article. The actual conclusion is of low diversity not no diversity.

And? The diversity is so low in the breed that the significant health issues and poor longevity associated with the breed cannot be corrected without an outcross.

Except it says might not will. It behooves the media and people who read these things and report them to actually report correctly.

Dreamer! The media can seldom be accused of accurate and correct reporting of scientific research ;) We in the scientific community insert so many 'probably', 'possibly', 'maybe', 'likely' words that the media gets frustrated and distorts. Say I spend two years writing an article. Some journo has three hours to summarize it. Of course they slash my carefully chosen hedge words to get something clear and simple. That's life.

[asal]

http://gizmodo.com/e...m=sharefromsite

Say no more...

No, let's say lots more. I would like to see the press release that accompanied the study because I bet it will be almost word for word what it says in the article. The actual conclusion is of low diversity not no diversity.

And? The diversity is so low in the breed that the significant health issues and poor longevity associated with the breed cannot be corrected without an outcross.

Except it says might not will. It behooves the media and people who read these things and report them to actually report correctly.

Dreamer! The media can seldom be accused of accurate and correct reporting of scientific research ;) We in the scientific community insert so many 'probably', 'possibly', 'maybe', 'likely' words that the media gets frustrated and distorts. Say I spend two years writing an article. Some journo has three hours to summarize it. Of course they slash my carefully chosen hedge words to get something clear and simple. That's life.

an uncle worked for the sydney morning herald, the motto was "any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, for which the management will not be held responsible".

[Lhok]

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/163176/Chief%20vets%20call%20on%20KC%20to%20change%20brachycephalic%20breed%20Standards

--Lhok

[Podengo]

Is a Healthier English Bulldog Possible? (audio)

The loveable, wrinkly, squishy-faced English bulldog is the fourth most popular purebred in the United States. The breed is also notorious for health problems, including breathing difficulties, overheating, and skin infections, to name a few. While the median age is about 8.4 years, many bulldogs live only 6 or fewer. What’s more, because of body structure problems, most bulldog mothers must deliver by c-section.

In 2009, stirred by controversy over these health problems, the United Kingdom’s Kennel Club made some revisions to the breed standards, in the name of heartier dogs. And organizations like the Bulldog Club of America say that careful breeding can help weed out genes that lead to ill health.

But do enough good genes exist in the pool, or has inbreeding wiped out the possibility of better breeding? New research suggests that crossbreeding with other breeds may be the only option for producing healthier bulldogs.

Veterinary researcher Niels Pedersen, a distinguished professor emeritus at the University of California-Davis, explains what he found in his explorations of the English bulldog gene pool, and how we might ensure a healthier future for the breed. He’s joined by Peter Photos, a science advisor for the Bulldog Club of America.