Bulldogs 1953.

[Steve]

In 1953 their life expectancy was 6 years.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Steve

[sandgrubber]

Hasn't changed much, then. Life expectancy 5 yr 11 mo according to:

http://jalostus.kenn...x?R=149&Lang=en

The video seems to show that bulldogs are great at one thing: eating.

I am a little surprised that the narrator was so blase about the short lifespan.

Edited July 23, 2016 by sandgrubber

[asal]

I had no idea either. never knew anyone with one. a local here loves great danes and none of the 4 she has had have lived long enough to celebrate their 6th birthday although one was one day short of her 6th when she too died in her sleep.

yet a daughters friend had hers to 14? He was huge, so tall he could rest his head on the counter top for a nap watching the preparation for a party and could look straight down into the food on display for the party goers. but he knew no touchie although it was a bit disconcerting.

he could easily sneeze on it

Edited July 24, 2016 by asal

[Pjrt]

The only dog that ever died in my care in 31 yrs of working with dogs was a 7yr old B.B He just went to sleep and didnt wake up

What exactly was the point of this thread anyway? The B. B of '53 look like abominations of canine design just like those of today, if you're after personal opinions.

All the B B I've ever met have been awesome characters though. I guess the dogs don't know any better.

[Steve]

The only dog that ever died in my care in 31 yrs of working with dogs was a 7yr old B.B He just went to sleep and didnt wake up

What exactly was the point of this thread anyway? The B. B of '53 look like abominations of canine design just like those of today, if you're after personal opinions.

All the B B I've ever met have been awesome characters though. I guess the dogs don't know any better.

Gee what was the point of this thread anyway? I thought it was interesting and that others might too.I was looking at their kennel set up and how they managed them - taking them for walks etc and how the longevity is the same now as it was 60 years ago which squashes PDE on that point.

[Pjrt]

The only dog that ever died in my care in 31 yrs of working with dogs was a 7yr old B.B He just went to sleep and didnt wake up

What exactly was the point of this thread anyway? The B. B of '53 look like abominations of canine design just like those of today, if you're after personal opinions.

All the B B I've ever met have been awesome characters though. I guess the dogs don't know any better.

Gee what was the point of this thread anyway? I thought it was interesting and that others might too.I was looking at their kennel set up and how they managed them - taking them for walks etc and how the longevity is the same now as it was 60 years ago which squashes PDE on that point.

It is interesting.

[sandgrubber]

Wouldn't say it squashes PDE. Jemima Harrison has an axe to grind, and misses a lot. In this case, she and others have missed the detail that the development of an unsound breed occurred long ago. She regularly forgets to observe that pugs, despite brachy problems, have relatively long lifespans (average around 12 yrs). Also seems more concerned about wrinkles than hips and elbows, and fails to consider ageing in her choice of photographic examples ... eg compare a 'times past' 2 yr old to a modern 8 yr old. These foibles don't negate the main point . . . many pedigree breeders have bred for extremes and let health go out the window. In some breeds, this is the norm, and you have no chance showing if you don't breed for extremes

[Steve]

I was only speaking of the longevity argument being squashed not the rest - the conformation is a whole different story. Not much fun if living longer doesn't equate to quality of life.

[Maddy]

I was only speaking of the longevity argument being squashed not the rest - the conformation is a whole different story. Not much fun if living longer doesn't equate to quality of life.

I'd agree with this.

A family member of mine has a very elderly pug and although it's still technically "alive", listening to it wheeze and puff even when sitting still, I think it's probably a good thing that dogs aren't self-aware enough to be able to plan suicide :/

[whitka]

The average life span of a healthy British bulldog is about 10 years, my boy has never had problems with breathing and is very active and his breeders dogs have never had any breathing problems either and she keeps her dogs active to avoid getting overweight.

[*kirty*]

The average life span of a healthy British bulldog is about 10 years

Therein lies the problem...

[Lhok]

The average life span of a healthy British bulldog is about 10 years

Therein lies the problem...

How long do you think a dog should live for? This is a genuine question by the way. My crossbred dog only lived till 13 and she was a mediumish dog.

--Lhok

[*kirty*]

I think 10-15 is a 'normal' lifespan for an 'average' dog. My issue is with the statement 'a healthy bulldog' - the majority of bulldogs have health issues that shorten their lifespan or reduce their quality of life. So while a healthy bulldog may live to 10 years of age, most bulldogs are not healthy and do not live that long.

[sandgrubber]

The average life span of a healthy British bulldog is about 10 years, my boy has never had problems with breathing and is very active and his breeders dogs have never had any breathing problems either and she keeps her dogs active to avoid getting overweight.

But what fraction of British bulldogs are healthy? I'd guess it's much less than half. OFA stats show that 73% of BB's are dysplasic in the hips and more than a third are dysplasic in the elbows. http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html

The Finnish data show 32 of 1116 tested. Of 32, none had A grade hips, 1 had B, 5 had C, 12 had D, and 14 had F grade hips. Of 335 mortalities recorded, only 53 (16%) died of old age (average lifespan 9yr 8 mo). For the 335 in total, the average lifespan was 5 yr 11 mo.

[RuralPug]

But what fraction of British bulldogs are healthy? I'd guess it's much less than half. OFA stats show that 73% of BB's are dysplasic in the hips and more than a third are dysplasic in the elbows. http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html

The Finnish data show 32 of 1116 tested. Of 32, none had A grade hips, 1 had B, 5 had C, 12 had D, and 14 had F grade hips. Of 335 mortalities recorded, only 53 (16%) died of old age (average lifespan 9yr 8 mo). For the 335 in total, the average lifespan was 5 yr 11 mo.

I don't have a vested interest here but I just point out that if you have reported those stats correctly, out of a group of over 1,000 only 32 were hip scored. That is something like 3% and I would have to suspect the selection factor - I would guess that the only reason that they were xrayed and scored was a visible limp or impairment, I.e. the xrays were for diagnosis, not scoring for breed factors. Common sense tells us that if you at only going to look at scores of dogs visibly lame you are going to skew the data.

On the flip side, if I am wrong and there were 1116 bulldogs hip scored and only 32 did not have A grade hips then this breed obviously does not have a problem with hip dysplasia.

I have no problem with the mortality data, only 16% living to healthy breed expectancy is very sad indeed. Longevity and health should be on every breeder's list of aims.

Edited July 27, 2016 by RuralPug

[Podengo]

OFFA Hip Stats

[Lhok]

OFFA Hip Stats

Whoa, check out the pug scores underneath the British bulldog.

--Lhok

[RuralPug]

OFFA Hip Stats

Same thing again.

Not a survey but data collected from "Breeds having at least 100 evaluations January 1974 through December 2015"

Notice that less than 1000 bulldogs and same with pugs were tested over that 50 year period. Compare that with almost 250,000 labradors, 145,000 goldies and 115,000 GSDs. I think it is very reasonable to assume that, especially in the first couple of decades in that time frame, when hip scoring of potential sires and dams was rarely, if ever, done as a matter of course, the x rays were for diagnostic purposes.

So I'm reading those stats as saying "Of 774 LAME Bulldogs, 73.4% were rated dysplastic. Of those 774, 126 were born in the last five years, of which 69.8% were rated dysplastic."

I see from the inclusion of Rat Terrier and Toy Australian Shepherd that those stats originated in the US which means that the Bulldog mentioned is what we call the American Bulldog, not to be confused with the British version in the newsreel. The two breeds are quite dissimilar in size and structure.

And did you notice that Tibetan Spaniels have worsened from 10.8% dysplastic over 50 years to 38.5% dysplastic for those born in the last five years? My goodness, are those US breeders breeding FOR dysplasia?? I would accept that the Finnish data quoted by Sandgrubber did indeed refer to the British Bulldogs, however in my opinion both sets of stats don't reflect dysplasia in the breeds, rather the chances of lameness in those breeds being caused by dysplasia.Quite different from what percentage of an entire breed is lame.

Now if someone did hip scores on say 1,000 totally random dogs of each breed I would be much more impressed with the resulting statistics! Or if someone took those US stats and amended the number of dogs scored by the popularity of the breed (I'm not quite sure how that could be done) then we might look at the result of that as being breed representative.

Edited 'cos I can't count.

Edited July 27, 2016 by RuralPug

[*kirty*]

That may not be the case though ruralpug, it may just be that a small number of breeders chose to get their dogs hip scored. The same thing happens with eye certificates - we only see a tiny percentage of any particular breed; not because they have eye problems but because some breeders choose to do eye certificates while many don't bother.

[RuralPug]

That may not be the case though ruralpug, it may just be that a small number of breeders chose to get their dogs hip scored. The same thing happens with eye certificates - we only see a tiny percentage of any particular breed; not because they have eye problems but because some breeders choose to do eye certificates while many don't bother.

Exactly my point!

Seeing a tiny percentage of a breed will does not give a basis for making statements about the entire breed.

Even if we assume that any diagnostic scores have been eliminated from the statistics, then you are still stuck with the problem that the percentage of breeders who choose to hip score is unknown.

Because we know that testing and scoring costs money, it is only likely to be done for one of those two reasons: diagnosis of injury or scoring for a certificate. In how many breeds would that mean a majority of dogs are scored?

I was active in the dog world in 1974 and hip scoring for assessment was not commonly done, as it is by good breeders today.