Blue Gene Alopecia

[asal]

This link doesnt even explain what the problems can be associated with the blue gene?

so if your already know this skip, if you dont and want one of the must have blue dogs. read and understand before you do buy one for the massive prices being asked for this cough "rare" colour.

its not rare its just one of the many possible coat colours and there is a reason many breeders avoid producing blue or lilic (double blue double chocolate) puppies

25 percent of such puppies will mature and begin to display "blue gene alopecia."

ok? what is that.

it means your cute little whatever breed it is might be one of the one in four that will being to lose its coat. On the ears, top of its head, a speed stripe down its back including its tail. Some go from tip of nose to tip of tail, others keep the hair around their neck but short to almost bald elsewhere.

one I so wish I had a photos of him he had a white star, white collar and legs , the rest of his body blue. he was a long coat chihuahua. but although the white part of his coat was long. all the blue part his coat was more like that of a mexican hairless.

this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in.

http://www.famouschihuahua.com/chihuahua-facts/what-is-a-blue-chihuahua/

I include my own blue boy, he had a seeminly normal long coat, until you saw his back, he had a normal neck ruff but from his shoulders, down is back to to tip of his tail he had what could be called a bedlington clip, his tail feather underneath was unaffected so he sure looked funny. The Black and tan is his normal coated sister Gates Lace, the golden girl Dancer is unrelated.

this photo taken late in 1999 went worldwide in a calender in 2002, the photographer adored him. their photo adorned a set of coffee cups also available world wide

Edited July 18, 2016 by asal

[Kirislin]

it doesn't only affect blue dogs, it affects dilute dogs. Those with the colour dilution gene, which can be in fawns as well as blues

[asal]

it doesn't only affect blue dogs, it affects dilute dogs. Those with the colour dilution gene, which can be in fawns as well as blues

the chocolate gene is also a dilution gene but its entirely seperate on a different locus. hence why a puppy can be both blue and chocolate and visually present as the ultra light lilac.

the chocolate dilution does not develop alopecia, although it is quite subject to fading from sun exposure

two blue genes on a black or a black and tan dog gives you a blue or blue and tan dog with a blue instead of a black nose.

two blue genes on a sable or a fawn gives you a blue sable or a blue fawn, which presents as a pale golden with blue tips in the case of the sable or simply a blue sheen in the otherwise golden coat. both will have blue instead of black noses.

Stringy is a blue fawn and you can see his lighter nose colour compared to his sister Lace and the golden girl Dancer. oops forgot to mention, dancer is yes a golden, but she is also a double chocolate which cannot express on a gold dog, but her nose does express it, her nose is chocolate instead of black. hence so many golden labradors who do not have a black nose. they are actually disguised chocolates hidden by their gold coat. only their nose is the giveaway

Edited July 18, 2016 by asal

[maddogdodge]

My blue and tan Kelpie has this (Colour Dilution Alopecia - CDA). She's had a patchy coat from about 6 months old and is now 11. her summer coat often gets so thin in some spots that she's bald. In winter the parts of her coat affected grow in thick but short so have a really plush feel to them, there's no guard hairs in those areas, just undercoat.

This is her winter coat

And her summer coat

[Maddy]

this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in.

Blue is a colour that occurs in greyhounds and I have never seen a greyhound with colour dilution alopecia If the condition occurs in 25% of all blue dogs, I expect I'd have seen it at least once in greyhounds by now, especially considering I mostly deal with adult dogs. The alopecia that greyhounds do suffer from occurs across all colours- although is does seem worse with blacks- and with a lot of time and good, soft bedding, it can be resolved.

Regarding colour dilution alopecia, I'd say the same for whippets, too- blue is a popular colour (especially for backyard bred whippets) but I've never met a blue with any alopecia. My own girl is a blue parti (I wanted a black, couldn't get one) and not only does she not have bald spots, her coat is probably the best quality of any greyhound or whippet I've personally seen. It's short and feels smooth to the touch but it's incredibly dense and tight.

Diltion alopecia might well be an issue in certain breeds but I think it's a stretch to say it's an any in all breeds that carry the dilution genes.

[Rebanne]

this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in.

Blue is a colour that occurs in greyhounds and I have never seen a greyhound with colour dilution alopecia If the condition occurs in 25% of all blue dogs, I expect I'd have seen it at least once in greyhounds by now, especially considering I mostly deal with adult dogs. The alopecia that greyhounds do suffer from occurs across all colours- although is does seem worse with blacks- and with a lot of time and good, soft bedding, it can be resolved.

Diltion alopecia might well be an issue in certain breeds but I think it's a stretch to say it's an any in all breeds that carry the dilution genes.

Agree, I've seen plenty of blue greyhounds as well and all have had normal coats

[Salukifan]

this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in.

Blue is a colour that occurs in greyhounds and I have never seen a greyhound with colour dilution alopecia If the condition occurs in 25% of all blue dogs, I expect I'd have seen it at least once in greyhounds by now, especially considering I mostly deal with adult dogs. The alopecia that greyhounds do suffer from occurs across all colours- although is does seem worse with blacks- and with a lot of time and good, soft bedding, it can be resolved.

Diltion alopecia might well be an issue in certain breeds but I think it's a stretch to say it's an any in all breeds that carry the dilution genes.

Agree, I've seen plenty of blue greyhounds as well and all have had normal coats

Ditto for Whippets

[Kirislin]

I've never seen it in whippets or greyhounds either but it is pretty common in Italian Greyhounds.

[JulesP]

it doesn't only affect blue dogs, it affects dilute dogs. Those with the colour dilution gene, which can be in fawns as well as blues

the chocolate gene is also a dilution gene but its entirely seperate on a different locus. hence why a puppy can be both blue and chocolate and visually present as the ultra light lilac.

the chocolate dilution does not develop alopecia, although it is quite subject to fading from sun exposure

two blue genes on a black or a black and tan dog gives you a blue or blue and tan dog with a blue instead of a black nose.

two blue genes on a sable or a fawn gives you a blue sable or a blue fawn, which presents as a pale golden with blue tips in the case of the sable or simply a blue sheen in the otherwise golden coat. both will have blue instead of black noses.

Stringy is a blue fawn and you can see his lighter nose colour compared to his sister Lace and the golden girl Dancer. oops forgot to mention, dancer is yes a golden, but she is also a double chocolate which cannot express on a gold dog, but her nose does express it, her nose is chocolate instead of black. hence so many golden labradors who do not have a black nose. they are actually disguised chocolates hidden by their gold coat. only their nose is the giveaway

What breed are you talking about here as this is all incorrect for border collies.

[*kirty*]

this gene expresses on 25% of all blue puppies regardless of breed, be it a chihuahua, doberman, rotti, french bulldog, staffie u name it. its a gene that cares nothing about what breed its found in.

Blue is a colour that occurs in greyhounds and I have never seen a greyhound with colour dilution alopecia If the condition occurs in 25% of all blue dogs, I expect I'd have seen it at least once in greyhounds by now, especially considering I mostly deal with adult dogs. The alopecia that greyhounds do suffer from occurs across all colours- although is does seem worse with blacks- and with a lot of time and good, soft bedding, it can be resolved.

Diltion alopecia might well be an issue in certain breeds but I think it's a stretch to say it's an any in all breeds that carry the dilution genes.

Agree, I've seen plenty of blue greyhounds as well and all have had normal coats

Ditto for Whippets

Which is very interesting because it is very common in Italian Greyhounds.

[asal]

it doesn't only affect blue dogs, it affects dilute dogs. Those with the colour dilution gene, which can be in fawns as well as blues

the chocolate gene is also a dilution gene but its entirely seperate on a different locus. hence why a puppy can be both blue and chocolate and visually present as the ultra light lilac.

the chocolate dilution does not develop alopecia, although it is quite subject to fading from sun exposure

two blue genes on a black or a black and tan dog gives you a blue or blue and tan dog with a blue instead of a black nose.

two blue genes on a sable or a fawn gives you a blue sable or a blue fawn, which presents as a pale golden with blue tips in the case of the sable or simply a blue sheen in the otherwise golden coat. both will have blue instead of black noses.

Stringy is a blue fawn and you can see his lighter nose colour compared to his sister Lace and the golden girl Dancer. oops forgot to mention, dancer is yes a golden, but she is also a double chocolate which cannot express on a gold dog, but her nose does express it, her nose is chocolate instead of black. hence so many golden labradors who do not have a black nose. they are actually disguised chocolates hidden by their gold coat. only their nose is the giveaway

What breed are you talking about here as this is all incorrect for border collies.

at the beginning I listed some of the breeds my vet said. as others commented they haven't seen it in greyhounds and I can say neither have I but after I did learn about the 1 in 4 average in the breeds he told me , did wonder if the alopecia was not actually linked to the blue gene itself but an alle that piggy backs on some and isn't passed onto others, hence the 3 unaffected. If only unaffected were bred from would it cease to appear. My vet could not find any research on this so no idea or where to find out if such research has been done.

but then many blues are born from carrier parents so no way to select for non alopecia in the blue carrying parent/parents as they arent blue so coats ok anyway

Edited July 18, 2016 by asal

[Diva]

Colour dilution alopecia is thought to be caused by a faulty version of the dilution allele d. So in effect there are two different forms of d causing blue, one causes the alopecia and the other has no health effects. Which explains why the incidence varies between different breeds, they might have one or other or both versions of the dilution within the breed.

www.doggenetics.co.uk is a good up to date site for colour genetics.

[asal]

Colour dilution alopecia is thought to be caused by a faulty version of the dilution allele d. So in effect there are two different forms of d causing blue, one causes the alopecia and the other has no health effects. Which explains why the incidence varies between different breeds, they might have one or other or both versions of the dilution within the breed.

www.doggenetics.co.uk is a good up to date site for colour genetics.

thanks Diva, interesting.

bit like the pearl gene v the cream gene in horses. each is a dilution gene located on the same locus, therefore no horse can have two pearl genes and a cream, or two cream and a pearl. but they can have two pearl or two cream or one cream and one pearl.

the results are a dilution but each expressess quite differently.

One copy of the cream turns a chesnut palomino, a bay buckskin or a black smokey black. . with two copies the palomino becomes a cremello with blue eyes, the buckskin a perlino with blue eyes and the smokey black before almost unable to be realised is a dilute since the creme gene can only dilute red in the coat, suddenly with the two is perlino with blue eyes.

the pearl on the other hand cannot express singularly, like the blue gene it cannot express unless present with two copies and then presents a diluten with a noticibly pearl sheen to the the coat . Yet if a horse inherits one cream gene and one pearl gene the result is a seemingly slightly different shades of cremello or Perlino but the eyes are believe it or not, green or green flecked.

in the case of a smokey black pearl the shade is almost beyond description.

fortunately alopecia isnt anywhere in the mix

http://www.hippo-logistics.com/newdilutions/pearl/index.htm

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=pearl+horse&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsmM2Wlv7NAhXMnpQKHew7Au8QsAQIIw&biw=1920&bih=971

Edited July 18, 2016 by asal

[Steve]

Colour dilution alopecia doesn't occur in all dogs withblue or fawn coats, and the frequency varies within affected breeds.

It is the result of a faulty version of the d allele, knownas dl. Not all breeds carry this faulty allele, and the majority of blues arecompletely healthy.

There are various different D alleles, and only one of thesecauses CDA. Technically this makes CDA a recessive allele, as it is recessiveto D (non-dilute, non-CDA) however dl is dominant over the standard d allele.

What this all means is that CDA can be bred out of mostlines by careful breeding and genetic testing to eliminate the dl allele infavour of the healthy d allele.

[asal]

Colour dilution alopecia doesn't occur in all dogs withblue or fawn coats, and the frequency varies within affected breeds.

It is the result of a faulty version of the d allele, knownas dl. Not all breeds carry this faulty allele, and the majority of blues arecompletely healthy.

There are various different D alleles, and only one of thesecauses CDA. Technically this makes CDA a recessive allele, as it is recessiveto D (non-dilute, non-CDA) however dl is dominant over the standard d allele.

What this all means is that CDA can be bred out of mostlines by careful breeding and genetic testing to eliminate the dl allele infavour of the healthy d allele.

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000

[Steve]

Colour dilution alopecia doesn't occur in all dogs withblue or fawn coats, and the frequency varies within affected breeds.

It is the result of a faulty version of the d allele, knownas dl. Not all breeds carry this faulty allele, and the majority of blues arecompletely healthy.

There are various different D alleles, and only one of thesecauses CDA. Technically this makes CDA a recessive allele, as it is recessiveto D (non-dilute, non-CDA) however dl is dominant over the standard d allele.

What this all means is that CDA can be bred out of mostlines by careful breeding and genetic testing to eliminate the dl allele infavour of the healthy d allele.

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000

Well these days all you need to do is get your breeding dogs DNA swabbed and tested for it and you can make sure it doesn't show again while you also get to enjoy blue dogs.

[asal]

Colour dilution alopecia doesn't occur in all dogs withblue or fawn coats, and the frequency varies within affected breeds.

It is the result of a faulty version of the d allele, knownas dl. Not all breeds carry this faulty allele, and the majority of blues arecompletely healthy.

There are various different D alleles, and only one of thesecauses CDA. Technically this makes CDA a recessive allele, as it is recessiveto D (non-dilute, non-CDA) however dl is dominant over the standard d allele.

What this all means is that CDA can be bred out of mostlines by careful breeding and genetic testing to eliminate the dl allele infavour of the healthy d allele.

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000

Well these days all you need to do is get your breeding dogs DNA swabbed and tested for it and you can make sure it doesn't show again while you also get to enjoy blue dogs.

my neighbor has a cute little lilac chihuahua not a hint of alopecia although looking at him I realised ive never seen a shortcoat chihuahua with alopecia even in the case of full siblings, it was only the long coat puppies that it popped up in. At the time I was discussing it with my vet I mentioned that and his reply was I should see the coats on some of his doberman, rotti and staffies all smoothcoats and one of his worst cases was a roly dog.

but for myself ive never seen an affected smoothcoat? harder to express or just lucky?

passed on your news about the dna test to a friend who has the blue gene in her dogs and asked to to thank you.

made the comment she was at a vets the other day with an emergency delivery and on the other table was a blue fawn dog with the typical alopecia skin and coat. asked her vet whay was it out cold, to be told he was going to take skin plugs and scrapings to see what it had. she was pretty astonished he didnt know blue gene alopecia when he saw it?

[asal]

Colour dilution alopecia doesn't occur in all dogs withblue or fawn coats, and the frequency varies within affected breeds.

It is the result of a faulty version of the d allele, knownas dl. Not all breeds carry this faulty allele, and the majority of blues arecompletely healthy.

There are various different D alleles, and only one of thesecauses CDA. Technically this makes CDA a recessive allele, as it is recessiveto D (non-dilute, non-CDA) however dl is dominant over the standard d allele.

What this all means is that CDA can be bred out of mostlines by careful breeding and genetic testing to eliminate the dl allele infavour of the healthy d allele.

thanks, always suspected that but never knew for sure so few were interested in those days ie, prior 2000

Well these days all you need to do is get your breeding dogs DNA swabbed and tested for it and you can make sure it doesn't show again while you also get to enjoy blue dogs.

used to look at weimariners and felt miffed they are fine why cant the blue gene chi's all be too, their breeders had obviously deleted the problem long ago.

Edited July 20, 2016 by asal

[On_Tap]

On 18/07/2016 at 1:47 PM, maddogdodge said:

My blue and tan Kelpie has this (Colour Dilution Alopecia - CDA). She's had a patchy coat from about 6 months old and is now 11. her summer coat often gets so thin in some spots that she's bald. In winter the parts of her coat affected grow in thick but short so have a really plush feel to them, there's no guard hairs in those areas, just undercoat.

This is her winter coat

And her summer coat

Wow your kelpie is a spitting image of mine! The colour and pattern of hair loss is identical. We have spent years (not to mention $$$ on blood tests) being hassled by vets looking for answers for her hair loss with nil findings. I wish I'd seen your photos sooner!