Eastern European Shepherd

[OSoSwift]

If you are interested in working line shepherd type dogs talk to Steve at K9 Pro. He may be able to help you.

If I decide they are for me I sure will! I don't want to waste his time by asking him lots of questions before I am absolutely set in all least a shortlist of dogs. Thanks for the info

He breeds Malinois. However he will know breeders of a large variety of working line dogs and would likely help you to work out if they arensuited for your situation etc.

[persephone]

Hi there, I am very new to these forums and am just wondering what information people have on the eastern-European shepherd, or other similar breeds. I have spent a considerable amount of time researching what dog is best suited to our family, and together we decided that we believed that a shepherd dog is the right choice for us. I particularly like the look of the Eastern European shepherd as they are less prone to hip and elbow dysplasia than many other more common breeds are. If you have any info on where in Australia I could find a breeder of this dog, or any others like it I would greatly appreciate it. The main preferances my family and I have for a dog is that it needs to be intelligent, good with kids, a large breed and not particularly prone to health problems. Any info at all regarding any of this would be very helpful :)

I think the following blog entry , by Steve @ K9pro will help you sort out a few things in your mind :)

CLICK HERE:

excerpt :

"Some people feel champions are born, not made, others feel that the opposite is true. Personally, I would cover all bases by selecting a pup from a breeder who is skilled and understands what you want and what it takes to get there. Honestly not too many breeders fit this bill, but that’s ok! Why should they have to be experienced in every field?Simply discuss your hopes and dreams with a trainer or behaviorist that you trust, someone who can help you take your puppy from baby to hero because they have done it for others many times.

The breeds you are considering will need a lot of work - THIS blog entry again has useful info :)

CLICK HERE :

excerpt>

A fit body attached to an unsatisfied mind doesn’t make for a well behaved dog, but a satisfied dog might be just be enough to have a well balanced dog.Each week I consult with a number of dog owners often dealing with hyper active, over excited, anxiously unsatisfied dogs that often are receiving as much as up to 30 hours exercise a week. So I have to go back to basics and ask “where did the idea come from that exercise cures dog problems?“

Of course if we are to believe the TV dog whisperer Cesar Milan or Victoria Stillwell it is sold to us as a cure all but I can save you a lot of time and tell you that, it is far from it.

Now I know that by now there will be people screaming at the screen “no!, dogs dont get enough exercise as it is“, but I am not talking about the dog owner who never does anything with his or her dog, I am talking about those that pour hours of exercise into their dogs and the dog problems never seem to lessen.

First understand that, a dog will increase its fitness a lot faster than you will. This means that, if you walk your dog for an hour a day and your dog is better behaved, this will be short lived. His or her fitness will increase dramatically and by week three you will likely need to increase the exercise by 50%.

[JulesP]

You are in the wrong state if you want to do IPO/protection training Jack.

How about tracking? A friend is having lots of fun doing that with her Belgians.

I think a GSD would be best suited for obedience work and family dog. I wouldn't go a mastiff if you wanted to do obedience.

[Jack_E]

I don't think you can get Northern Inuits either but you can look at a Tamaskan.

I think a GSD would fit. Maybe have a look at the GSD thread. As long as they come from a ethical breeder with good lines there's no reason to expect issues. Although any breed can have unexpected issues. Sometimes life just happens.

Yeah I've looked into that. The dog that I thought to be a northern Inuit seems to be closer to a mutt 'lykoswolfdogs', so I started looking towards tamaskans, and whilst there are 4 dogs in Australia they are all male and someone will need to in port a bitch. I have joined all the tamaskans groups on Facebook in case of any action taking place.

There will be :) I think you should jump on the Australian Tamaskan page and maybe the Booma Tamaskan page if you are interested.

Yeah I joined them a week or so ago. So far their are no bitches in Australia, however I am waiting for updates.

[Jack_E]

fyi, there is apparently a breeding pair of ni being imported to Australia at some point next yr (I think) though there will still be a wait for them to be old enough to be bred, as well as needing to past health tests.

I believe I talked to you the other day about tamaskan. in regards to puppy placement, they will be placed with people who have gotten to know me (and vise versa).

avoid the so called lykos dog.

Yes I do remember talking to you the other day.im glad to here that, whilst I love the look, the sound of the temperament and the lack of health problems I am a little unsure about the train ability. What are they like for dog sports?

[Jack_E]

You are in the wrong state if you want to do IPO/protection training Jack.

How about tracking? A friend is having lots of fun doing that with her Belgians.

I think a GSD would be best suited for obedience work and family dog. I wouldn't go a mastiff if you wanted to do obedience.

Are you not allowed to do protection based training in vic? I'll look into tracking that sounds like it'd be a good activity, and I live in an area that is suited to it.

[Jack_E]

Intelligentdog, good for obedience, large size, looks similar to what you are after. With good training an off switch would be manageable, Rottweiler?

A Rottweiler is definitely very similar to what I'm after and I love the breed, although I knew one quite well a while ago that died really young due to cancer. I know that it's a bit of an irrational fear as it could happen to any dog, but I'm just a tad scared that it'll happen to me to.

[Tor]

I know they're a leap away from shepherds, but have you looked at Boxers? They are fantastic with kids, really intelligent, although they are not as easy to train as some more handler focussed dogs, generally good with other dogs and if you choose your breeder carefully and check the lines, the risk of many of the health issues can be minimised. They also have a good, deep bark when it counts and definitely look intimidating enough to the casual observer to be a pretty good deterrent.

I have an 8 month old Boxer boy and he is a dream around the house, very happy to laze around and snuggle, super enthusiastic to exercise when it's time, so patient with kids and our training is going really well (thanks to DOL) even though I'm a total novice. I'm planning to do some agility for fun with him when he's older, tracking and then train him as a therapy dog.

I would stress making sure you get the right breeder though. Ours placed my boy very carefully with us, as we are first time Boxer owners and his temperament was more suited than some of the others in his litter. He's confident but not dominant, loves everyone but can be attentive. I have him walking reliably on a loose leash now and his recall is coming along well. He picks up new commands and tricks within 3-5 minutes and remembers them, so in that sense he's very intelligent and trainable. But he does get excited and then his brain disengages ????.

And come on, look at that face!

[JulesP]

You are in the wrong state if you want to do IPO/protection training Jack.

How about tracking? A friend is having lots of fun doing that with her Belgians.

I think a GSD would be best suited for obedience work and family dog. I wouldn't go a mastiff if you wanted to do obedience.

Are you not allowed to do protection based training in vic? I'll look into tracking that sounds like it'd be a good activity, and I live in an area that is suited to it.

My understanding is you aren't unless you are a security guard. Some info:

http://agriculture.v...you-should-know

Protection training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licenced security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

Licensed security guards

Licensed security guards registered under the Private Agents Act 1966 are the only persons eligible to have their dogs trained as Protection Dogs, or to be trained in Protection Training.

Proof of Security Licence must be shown to the training establishment prior to commencement of Protection Training.

No member of the public may be trained in protection training unless the above pre-requisites are complied with.

Eligible dogs

The minimum age of a dog before protection training is allowed is 12 months.

Only recognised guarding breeds of the large variety and cross breeds of these, are allowed to be trained in protection training. These breeds are:

German Shepherd;

Rottweiler;

Doberman;

Other breeds recognised by the VCA as large guarding breeds.

Council notification

An owner must notify the appropriate municipality immediately when attack training has commenced.

Dangerous dogs

Dogs that have been trained to attack are dangerous dogs, and owners will be required to adhere to prescribed conditions (contact your council for details). This includes clear identification of the dog and methods of restraint that will protect the community.

[RuralPug]

I seriously would not choose any of the mastiff breeds if you are intending to do dog sports - their joints are under strain already from sheer size (I'm sad to say) and running and jumping etc. can have major consequences when done often.

I would also avoid all of the Spitz derivatives as they need a very different training style.

One last hint - how important is the off switch to you? Most of the breeds you have short listed don't have an off switch until they are seniors. However, if you are dedicated enough with a working line breed, you can train in a temporary off switch.

I guess a lot of the things I want are conflicting. Good with dogs and children is a must, and an off switch is ideal, but I understand I won't necessarily get one. In terms of big breeds(larger the better) what breeds would you say have the best chance of effectively competing in dog sports with ought hurting themselves. Although I agree with you in terms of almost all mastiffs, I have heard a lot about the cane corso being a very reliable protection dog and trainable dog, however if this is wrong I am happy to be corrected.

The mastiff breeds are trainable enough, but not suited to active dog sports. And they are not necessarily as good at protection as some of the shepherd working lines.

The best breeds for dog sports that involve a lot of twisting and turning at speed tend to be the active herding breeds (GSD, Belgian Shepherds, Australian Shepherds, Kelpies, Koolies etc.etc. and some of the gundogs - Weimeraner, Vizla, all the pointers, the agile spaniels; also poodles, vermin terriers and other odd-bods.)

Dog sports that involve pulling (sledding, weight pulls etc.) is a whole different kettle of fish, although GSDs do well along with traditional sledding breeds and some of the cattle working specialist breeds. There are other sports as well, none that immediately come to mind as being great showcases for masitiffs.

In Obedience itself, almost any breed can excel if you can find the right motivation for the dog. Good with dogs and children will mainly be up to how well a puppy is socialized , although some of the terrier breeds can go against this trend and be dog aggressive in spite of proper socialization.

The other thing that you may not have considered is that all of the giant breeds (includes all mastiffs except the Bernese Mountain Dog) have short life expectancies compared with small, medium and large breeds. Nothing to do with inherited disease, as a rule, it is just that their hearts have more work to do and simply wear out sooner.

LOL there is a you tube video doing the rounds which shows a high performance agility dog doing his stuff, followed by a Mastiff doing the same course.

I'm thinking that a Dobermann might actually tick most of your boxes - just choose a breeder who is breeding for performance rather than only the show ring.

[Kavik]

GSDs are not so good at twisting and turning at speed - they turn like a bus! :laugh:

[RuralPug]

Found the video I mentioned - featuring Tex, a world master agility champion acing the course, followed by a video of Zeus the Mastiff.

My link

And Kavik, you're no doubt right about some lines of GSDs, but the working lines are pretty good in the agility ring aren't they?

**Stops to think***

Now when was the last time I saw a GSD in agility???

[Kavik]

There are a couple of GSD competing at the moment.

But even the most athletic working line GSD does not turn as well as a smaller, lighter dog. Course design in competition has changed a lot in the last few years, and handling has changed as well, to keep up with course design changes. Lots more twisting and turning. And often, not much space between jumps (4m min), which is a bigger issue for the larger striding dogs.

All of the GSD breeders I have talked to have agreed that they are not as well suited to agility (as it has evolved) as many other breeds. Remember too that GSD are often 35 - 45 kg

A couple of videos.

Here is a GSD and Groenendael

Malinois

Winning Border Collie on the same course as the Malinois

And here is a really neat one - overlay of 2 runs, Groenendael and Border Collie. The Groenendael does really well! (my fav Groenendael at the moment, wish they would bring some of these into Aus!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7jGZwoYWOQ

Edited July 10, 2016 by Kavik

[Pjrt]

Can I throw a different breed in to the ring. A large dog very capable of protection, quite agile for its size, and a nanny to the kids, and a beautiful dog to live with that knows how to switch from task to task.

A breed I'm quite familiar with to recommend.

Bouvier des Flandres

[juice]

The problem is your wants list is conflicting, and i'm not sure there is a dog that fits it all.

Bigger dogs for protection looking are not going to live as long or be as good at agilty.

Agilty type breeds are not going be particularly protective.

How about a nice well bred cattle dog?

otherwise you might have to decide which way you prefer to go.

[persephone]

Can I throw a different breed in to the ring. A large dog very capable of protection, quite agile for its size, and a nanny to the kids, and a beautiful dog to live with that knows how to switch from task to task.

A breed I'm quite familiar with to recommend.

Bouvier des Flandres

ohhh yes :) they can be amazing dogs .I have had the good fortune to train a couple many years ago.

[Rebanne]

Found the video I mentioned - featuring Tex, a world master agility champion acing the course, followed by a video of Zeus the Mastiff.

My link

And Kavik, you're no doubt right about some lines of GSDs, but the working lines are pretty good in the agility ring aren't they?

**Stops to think***

Now when was the last time I saw a GSD in agility???

I titled a GSD in agility when it 1st started ????

[Kavik]

The thing about competition agility is that it has changed a lot since it started! It has changed a lot even since I started competing 7 years ago! I have now changed to a new handling system with my young dog as the one I was using with my older dog did not give me as many options for the challenges judges are now placing in competitions. It is now commonplace to send the dog to the back side of the jump, to send them into the non obvious end of the tunnel (instead of the end they are looking at), and to call them past obstacles which are in their path.

This is some footage of the very first agility competition! Sorry only have Facebook link

Some of the new handling!

Edited July 10, 2016 by Kavik

[RuralPug]

Some great videos Kavik. Makes me realise how old school I really am LOL How impressive was that simulcam one? Although the twinning of the judges and other officials was a bit weird LOL! Rebanne were your courses like the 1978 one?

Good point, Gruf - the Bouvier would fit well on the OP's list and is worth his while to check out.

Juice, succinctly put and quite correct. It seems that Jack understands that he will either have to compromise or choose one direction.

[Rebanne]

Some great videos Kavik. Makes me realise how old school I really am LOL How impressive was that simulcam one? Although the twinning of the judges and other officials was a bit weird LOL! Rebanne were your courses like the 1978 one?

we didn't have the seesaw but we did have tunnels under the dogwalk! There was more then one person who hit their head from not ducking kick enough. Large dogs had to jump 900mm if I recall correctly. You had to be clear and in the fastest top half to go onto the 2nd round and to get a qually you also had to go clear and be in the top half in time. Very few people handled their dogs on the right hand side :D

Yes handling is very, very different nowadays