Greyhound Racing To Be Shut Down

[Salukifan]

Future breeders? There are only about half a dozen non-racing breeders in the entire country.

Intrigued by the idea that slow greyhounds make better pets. Why????

You never hear that assertion about any other Sighthound

Edited July 8, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Maddy]

Where do these dogs come from though?

Greyhounds bred for conformation showing aren't the same as racing bred dogs (And before rebanne jumps in here, that's not an attack on showbred dogs- it's just pointing out a fact).

The only fact is the two types of greyhounds look different. Underneath they are one and the same. I have owned both types and also fosterd for GAP. My current young silly girl had her counterpart in a young silly girl I fostered. My proper old men dogs have had their counterparts in the racing dogs. I have bred dogs with insane prey drive. I haven't bred any fast enough to win on a race track but I'm not alone in that as seen by the many racing greyhounds PTS for being too slow.

Your dogs have entirely different blood lines to my dogs. When a dog is 30 years removed from racing lines, it ceases to be the same thing. You breed for conformation to a standard, racing greyhounds are bred for chasing ability. If those two pursuits created the same dog, there would be no difference in looks but very obviously, that's not the case.

I stand by what I said- they are not the same dog and for those of us who love and own racing bred greys, a showbred grey is not a substitute. That's not a slight against your dogs, it's a preference for a certain type.

[corvus]

Understand corvus. I also understand that some people are now genuinely trying to reform the industry.

However apparently the report is clear. It's far too late. Again, why did it take a legally constituted Commission of Inquiry for 'good' people to finally act? Too little too late. The warnings have been there for years.

Evidently, yes, it is too little too late. It took them so long because people are people. Sometimes they will continue doing what they have always done until they are forced to change, and in some cases, they go so far down the garden path before they get found out that it's a long journey back into the light. Truly, though, I doubt this is about animal welfare. When has a government ever banned a questionable practice that makes money? This is a first, really. Maybe I'm cynical, but I've been in animal welfare for long enough to have realised that really, our society does not care about animal welfare. We tick boxes and flirt with moral outrage, but there's no money and little commitment for real change. In this case, there actually was money for real change. Unfortunately, it didn't come soon enough. Change is hard. Change that costs a lot of money is even harder. I don't really blame them for not moving fast enough. I would have liked to have seen an ultimatum like "Meet these targets by 2019 or you will be shut down." I think that is the clear message needed to mobilise for action. I hope this is how it will be done in future.

I do not think it is foregone conclusion that fast dogs are poor pets. There are a lot of factors to be considered.

[Greyt]

The dogs that are bred today are bred for purpose ie, to win races.

Ironically, the lasted decision flips the script and in a post racing world, the most demanded dogs will be those that have the highest compatibility with pet traits.

Slow Greyhounds rule!

But slow doesn't automatically mean less of a prey drive. Just means they can't catch the bunny

Slow is a measure of speed. Greys are Sighthounds. Sighthounds have prey drive.

Is this news?

[corvus]

The dogs that are bred today are bred for purpose ie, to win races.

Ironically, the lasted decision flips the script and in a post racing world, the most demanded dogs will be those that have the highest compatibility with pet traits.

Slow Greyhounds rule!

But slow doesn't automatically mean less of a prey drive. Just means they can't catch the bunny

Slow is a measure of speed. Greys are Sighthounds. Sighthounds have prey drive.

Is this news?

Speed does not equal prey drive, though. That assumes that all greyhounds were born equally capable of running very fast and only their motivation to reach a moving stimulus regardless of what kind of moving stimulus differentiates performance. That is overly simplistic.

[Salukifan]

The dogs that are bred today are bred for purpose ie, to win races.

Ironically, the lasted decision flips the script and in a post racing world, the most demanded dogs will be those that have the highest compatibility with pet traits.

Slow Greyhounds rule!

But slow doesn't automatically mean less of a prey drive. Just means they can't catch the bunny

Slow is a measure of speed. Greys are Sighthounds. Sighthounds have prey drive.

Is this news?

It certainly is to the people who think Greyhounds have to be abused to chase a lure and who post pictures of their dogs with kittens and bunnies showing their " true nature"

Edited July 8, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Greyt]

Future breeders? There are only about half a dozen non-racing breeders in the entire country.

Intrigued by the idea that slow greyhounds make better pets. Why????

You never hear that assertion about any other Sighthound

The breed does not have a supply of bred for pets Greyhounds because there is such an oversupply of bred for sport Greyhounds.

Greys are all but given away due to the oversupply so there is no pet market.

So the current breeders do not breed for pet traits - personality, looks, geniality towards other pets etc

Pet owners would gravitate more towards the docile end of the Grey population rather than the super chaser end.

If you compared the two groups, one would be slower than the other.

Slow is relative though - a slow Grey is faster than the speediest fluffy white dog on the planet.

[juice]

There are many breeds who only have a handful of breeders, surely thats a good thing.

"rescue warehousing dogs" isn't that exactly how they are kept at trainers who own hundreds of dogs?

What is to stop people who want to continue the racing line stopping them? GSD's have working and show line, as do many other breeds.

[Salukifan]

Future breeders? There are only about half a dozen non-racing breeders in the entire country.

Intrigued by the idea that slow greyhounds make better pets. Why????

You never hear that assertion about any other Sighthound

The breed does not have a supply of bred for pets Greyhounds because there is such an oversupply of bred for sport Greyhounds.

Greys are all but given away due to the oversupply so there is no pet market.

So the current breeders do not breed for pet traits - personality, looks, geniality towards other pets etc

Pet owners would gravitate more towards the docile end of the Grey population rather than the super chaser end.

If you compared the two groups, one would be slower than the other.

Slow is relative though - a slow Grey is faster than the speediest fluffy white dog on the planet.

Sounds to me that what you think a pet greyhound should be is a dog without prey drive or any real heart. That is not what responsible Sighthound breeders select for.

The market for large pet sighthounds is a small one. Dogs require careful placement. Pig hunting interest is an issue. These are not dogs that fit easily into many homes. Greys aren't any different. Few current pet Greyhound owners have experience with young dogs that are a lot more work.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[moosmum]

I've got a Cassandra complex here.

While breeding organizations actively discourage the breeding of dogs out side a registered pedigree system, Breed specific legislation is a logical conclusion, and the only option left open.

This news is the 2nd confirming this in the last 12 months or so. There will more, and more. It gains momentum. And each time, there will be found genuine and (moral or ethical) support for the action.

Because the 'standards' applied to keeping, owning and breeding dogs are not universaly promoted or accepted ideals for the whole of the environment that wishes to support dogs in the community.

They are specific to individual breeds, and the individual environments that support breed specific standards.

This has little to do with A.R activists and much more to do with an increased concern for welfare in general, along with an errosion of purpose for dogs, and the roles they fill in the lives of the people who keep them.

Pet ownership is at all time lows in Australia. This trend will continue while pedigrees and individual standards are promoted over universal standards promoting purpose for dogs, and the values that support and add to that purpose.

This is able to be simply ( tho' actively, with intent ) corrected, but is nearly at the point of no return. But don't blame A.R. Blame a precursor of 'Identity' politics, and its general acceptance.

Where responsibility is a lost concept. Response is limmited to chosen or forced identity and not the demands or expectatations of here and now.

Pedigree Breeders Identity says care is taken to not contribute anything to what takes place out side the pedigree system. To remain apart and distinct in time. Not place.

To accept no responsibility for the shape the world is, here and now.

Cassandra.

Edited July 8, 2016 by moosmum

[Salukifan]

There are many breeds who only have a handful of breeders, surely thats a good thing.

"rescue warehousing dogs" isn't that exactly how they are kept at trainers who own hundreds of dogs?

What is to stop people who want to continue the racing line stopping them? GSD's have working and show line, as do many other breeds.

At least race greys in kennels get to leave them. If there is no legal method of testing fitness for function in a race line. How does it go forward?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[WoofnHoof]

I love thoroughbreds but since I don't love the ridiculous amount of wastage that goes on in the industry or the poor welfare for thousands of animals that results from it I would not see it as a tragedy if racing shut down and the breed changes to reflect their new purpose. Breeds are a human creation, they change according to human needs. There is nothing new under the sun here. The fact that the report has found that the necessary changes to address cruelty would make the industry unviable speaks volumes, and for anyone to suggest that it should continue just to keep the breed just as it is is abhorrent. True breed fanciers will develop the breed as they see fit, as they have always done, just without the assistance of the blood money the industry generates.

Edited July 8, 2016 by WoofnHoof

[dididog]

Of all the arguments against why an industry inherently prone to the wastage and culling of thousands of dogs every year should be shut down... the fact that you might not be able to own the type of dog you like best hardly seems to be a strong one. Surely your personal desires in a dog shouldn't be more important than the guaranteed ongoing deaths of said dogs should the industry continue to exist? While yes I would imagine the breeding of racebred greys would produce better quality dogs over a BYB, the breeding program is hardly worth being defended and revered if half those dogs being bred are going to get a bullet in the brain for the misfortune. If a show breeder was pumping out litters and then culling half of the dogs they bred I'm sure that's not a breeder or an industry anyone on this forum would be willing to defend or overlook just because they breed nice dogs??

[Salukifan]

I've got a Cassandra complex here.

While breeding organizations actively discourage the breeding of dogs out side a registered pedigree system, Breed specific legislation is a logical conclusion, and the only option left open.

This news is the 2nd confirming this in the last 12 months or so. There will more, and more. It gains momentum. And each time, there will be found genuine and (moral or ethical) support for the action.

Because the 'standards' applied to keeping, owning and breeding dogs are not universaly promoted or accepted ideals for the whole of the environment that wishes to support dogs in the community.

They are specific to individual breeds, and the individual environments that support breed specific standards.

This has little to do with A.R activists and much more to do with an increased concern for welfare in general, along with an errosion of purpose for dogs, and the roles they fill in the lives of the people who keep them.

Pet ownership is at all time lows in Australia. This trend will continue while pedigrees and individual standards are promoted over universal standards promoting purpose for dogs, and the values that support and add to that purpose.

This is able to be corrected, but is nearly at the point of no return. But don't blame A.R. Blame the original precursor of 'Identity' politics.

Cassandra.

Without a shadow of a doubt the strangest post I have read in years.

The "purpose" of any pet dog is companionship. The shape of the ideal companion is not universal. Owners have preferences. The most reliable way to ensure that the pet puppy you want grows up to fit those preferences is to choose a pup from lines selectively bred over generations to have them.

All standards for pet breeding legislated by states are universal. They do not mention breed. States do not discourage the active breeding of dogs outside of breeding organisations.

Why organisations devoted to the preservation and breeding of purebred dogs would promote anything else defies logic.

You clearly have an issue with purebred dogs. It would be nice if the tragedy now confronting dogs bred ENTIRELY outside the ANKC system didn't simply serve to make your point. The ANKC has no welfare standards specific to individual breeds. They apply to all of them.

Identity politics? Em what the hell are those?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Greyt]

The dogs that are bred today are bred for purpose ie, to win races.

Ironically, the lasted decision flips the script and in a post racing world, the most demanded dogs will be those that have the highest compatibility with pet traits.

Slow Greyhounds rule!

But slow doesn't automatically mean less of a prey drive. Just means they can't catch the bunny

Slow is a measure of speed. Greys are Sighthounds. Sighthounds have prey drive.

Is this news?

It certainly is to the people who think Greyhounds have to be abused to chase a lure and who post pictures of their dogs with kittens and bunnies showing their " true nature"

No, don't think I have ever seen any AR group claim that the industry that breeds Greyhounds ever tried to prevent prey-drive..

[trifecta]

Well done Mike Baird. Suggest people jump on line, thank him and urge him to stand firm. The industry pressure to reverse the decision will be significant.

Obviously you are not from NSW, westiemum!

The man is a right wing dictator who has his eyes set on Canberra and most likely leadership, in time, of the Federal Liberal Party.

There are 65 greyhound tracks in the country, 33 in NSW. In our regional towns and cities, and particularly in Sydney, the greyhound tracks sit on valuable land that developers have been trying to get their hands on for decades. This is nothing more than a land grab and what makes it more obvious is that other states are not following suit. The exception is the ACT which has followed NSW. Coincidence that they have been trying to move the greyhound club off the land at Symonston for sometime and that they have also expressed a desire to resume the land at Thoroughbred Park?

Edited July 8, 2016 by trifecta

[Greyt]

Well done Mike Baird. Suggest people jump on line, thank him and urge him to stand firm. The industry pressure to reverse the decision will be significant.

Obviously you are not from NSW, westiemum!

The man is a right wing dictator who has his eyes set on Canberra and most likely leadership, in time, of the Federal Liberal Party.

There are 65 greyhound tracks in the country, 33 in NSW. In our regional towns and cities, and particularly in Sydney, the greyhound tracks sit on valuable land that developers have been trying to get their hands on for decades. This is nothing more than a land grab and what makes it more obvious is that other states are not following suit. The exception is the ACT which has followed NSW. Coincidence that they have been trying to move the greyhound club off the land at Symonston for sometime and that they have also expressed a desire to resume the land at Thoroughbred Park?

So when politics meets arrogance, politics wins? Couldn't have seen that coming.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Greyt

[labadore]

Momentus decision by NSW Govt with ACT to follow Writing on the wall for the other States. The greyhound racing industry only has itself to blame, they could not/would not fix all the endemic problems within their industry for decades and only acted to address some of them when the animal welfare issues within the industry were put under the spotlight and exposed this cruel industry for what it is. Animal Welfare within this industry was at the bottom of their priority list and only very recently were "forced" to start addressing it when it became public knowledge under the spotlight. If this exposure had not happened, this industry would have carried on with business as usual

Edited July 8, 2016 by labadore

[~Lisa~]

I have never imagined there would be a time I didn't have an ex-racing greyhound. I had planned to always have one in my home, they add something so special and I am glad to raise my children with them. However if the only way these dogs will be available to me is through thousands of others being culled as wastage, by live baiting continuing etc. How could I possibly say that is worth it? How could I be happy for tens of thousands of animals to suffer and die just so the right one becomes available for me to one day adopt?

Of all of the arguments I have seen for and against this decision, this is the one I really can't grasp.

I love these dogs SO much that their continual mistreatment is worth it just so I can have what I want? That makes no sense to me.

[Jed]

kirty

No, the abuse will come from the pet owners who have no idea about Greyhounds but adopt one to save it. There will also be an increase in attacks by Greyhounds on cats and small dogs, because people will be adopting dogs that are not suitable for suburban life. I can't see this whole situation ending well at all. And as always, the biggest losers will be the dogs.

I don't think any of that will happen. The legislation, according to the media, bans "the presence" of the dogs. That to me, means there will be NO greyhounds, so all will either be euthanased, or shipped interstate.

There will be no pet homes, because the "presence" of them is banned.

I would be extremely concerned if I owned show greyhounds, or have retired greyhounds as pets. I think this could be a BSL situation, where if it looks like a greyhound, it is seized and done away with.

Call me paranoid, but if people want show and pet greyhounds, the intended legislation needs investigation.

I also understood that following investigations, trainers who baited were expelled and/or jailed. I understood the ills in the industry had been cleaned up (apart from what to do with slow dogs) and no illegal activies were taking place. I haven't been following it all that closely - but it seems odd to "clean it up"and THEN ban greyhounds.

But I have obviously missed something.

A very successful trainer, who didn't bait, once told me that a greyhound could only run as fast as it could ran, and nothing you did made it run any faster - except gifted feeding conditioning and training. No idea why they all baited the dogs ... so wrong.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Jed