Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[WoofnHoof]

If they can do it, and actually follow through with it, they might survive. It is sad that it takes the threat of closure to force them to take the issue seriously, and this is the problem with a lot of animal industries and welfare issues associated with them, when they are backed into a corner they actually can enforce their own rules but often times the damage is done because it was obvious they lacked the will to do it, paying lip service to welfare in policy and print but not in practice. People know they are only doing it now because they have to, if they truly believed those actions were wrong they would have taken stronger measures to enforce standards well before now. This is why it's not good enough to just accept that a small minority will do the wrong thing and carry on business as usual, most organisations have animal welfare rules and guidelines, enforcing them before the shit hits the fan would be a good idea. 

[m-j]

Exactly couldnt agree more, but this way a whole lot of existing dogs get to live.

[WoofnHoof]

Well at least as long as they are racing. 

[m-j]

With the legislation  owners wont be able to euth their dogs, not without a good reason verified by a vet and possibly numbers will drop even more as each pup will cost the owner more to produce because of the bond.

Edited March 17, 2017 by m-j

[westiemum]

[m-j]

Yes thank goodness things have changed since 2012 when this photo was used.

[Maddy]

On 5/3/2017 at 7:32 PM, m-j said:

Yes thank goodness things have changed since 2012 when this photo was used.

Down here, things are just as corrupt as always.

A local trainer had his third positive swab for arsenic. He did it, he knew everyone knew he did it, but this particular trainer has at least two dogs in every race and knows the industry needs him. So he is still racing, despite a history that includes some pretty disgusting allegations. His behaviour is very well-known to everyone within the local industry but he is protected because they need him. An entire industry stands silent because it serves their own interests.
As far as I can see, nothing has changed. They've just gotten better at keeping it quiet.

[moosmum]

Fools if they think thats who they need.

 

Maybe should be 3 strikes and your out, by law.

[m-j]

8 hours ago, Maddy said:

Down here, things are just as corrupt as always.

A local trainer had his third positive swab for arsenic. He did it, he knew everyone knew he did it, but this particular trainer has at least two dogs in every race and knows the industry needs him. So he is still racing, despite a history that includes some pretty disgusting allegations. His behaviour is very well-known to everyone within the local industry but he is protected because they need him. An entire industry stands silent because it serves their own interests.
As far as I can see, nothing has changed. They've just gotten better at keeping it quiet.

Yes what has happened in NSW does need to be extended to other states, but if enough people make the right noises in the right places it can. You are in a good position as a member of the public with this information to do this. The corruption in the industry is still a bit of a hot topic. The industry doesn't need trainers it needs dogs on tracks to be sustainable if this trainer was banned the owners could just take their dog to another trainer. I'm guessing he doesn't own all the dogs he races?

[asal]

interesting story re a Peta demonstrator?

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pLMSCFlch1A&app=desktop

[Maddy]

On 5/5/2017 at 8:48 PM, m-j said:

Yes what has happened in NSW does need to be extended to other states, but if enough people make the right noises in the right places it can. You are in a good position as a member of the public with this information to do this. The corruption in the industry is still a bit of a hot topic. The industry doesn't need trainers it needs dogs on tracks to be sustainable if this trainer was banned the owners could just take their dog to another trainer. I'm guessing he doesn't own all the dogs he races?

Why should a member of the public even be required to report this sort of thing? What happened to "we're changing" claims? Surely every member down here who knows about the issue should be obligated to speak up, because only a few months ago, they were (allegedly) all about cleaning up the sport.

As for the trainer, yes, he is needed. He trains a large number of dogs (70+) and without his dogs (many of whom are below average and aren't wanted by trainers who keep much smaller numbers), the fields would not be filled. The other issue is that if he quits, the 70-odd dogs will go down with him*, just as a threat of the sort of terrible public attention the industry does not want. And it worked very nicely for him- third charge on the same prohibited substance, business as usual.

 

*To be clear about what was meant here, a visit from the vet for the sort of treatment that costs $45 per dog (excluding disposal fee).

[m-j]

58 minutes ago, Maddy said:

Why should a member of the public even be required to report this sort of thing? What happened to "we're changing" claims? Surely every member down here who knows about the issue should be obligated to speak up, because only a few months ago, they were (allegedly) all about cleaning up the sport.

As for the trainer, yes, he is needed. He trains a large number of dogs (70+) and without his dogs (many of whom are below average and aren't wanted by trainers who keep much smaller numbers), the fields would not be filled. The other issue is that if he quits, the 70-odd dogs will go down with him*, just as a threat of the sort of terrible public attention the industry does not want. And it worked very nicely for him- third charge on the same prohibited substance, business as usual.

 

*To be clear about what was meant here, a visit from the vet for the sort of treatment that costs $45 per dog (excluding disposal fee).

As a member of the public complaining you hold a lot more influence because they fear a bad reputation. They have gone back to business as usual because they see it as a storm in a teacup because that is how it being treated.

All trainers want to win but if the owner pays they generally aren't too worried they are still making money, in my experience.

[moosmum]

2 hours ago, Maddy said:

Why should a member of the public even be required to report this sort of thing? What happened to "we're changing" claims? Surely every member down here who knows about the issue should be obligated to speak up, because only a few months ago, they were (allegedly) all about cleaning up the sport.

As for the trainer, yes, he is needed. He trains a large number of dogs (70+) and without his dogs (many of whom are below average and aren't wanted by trainers who keep much smaller numbers), the fields would not be filled. The other issue is that if he quits, the 70-odd dogs will go down with him*, just as a threat of the sort of terrible public attention the industry does not want. And it worked very nicely for him- third charge on the same prohibited substance, business as usual.

 

*To be clear about what was meant here, a visit from the vet for the sort of treatment that costs $45 per dog (excluding disposal fee).

IMO, because its public standards the Industry must be accountable to.

Either its got nothing to do with you, ( or 'us' ) as  members of the public, or we all take a share in the responsibility.

 

If the community takes no responsibility for 'Identities' , No one can.  Identities are set from within. Thats their Nature.

The Nurture part can only happen with some level of integration with its environment.

Responsibility in common, to each other.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by moosmum

[Maddy]

On 5/7/2017 at 1:38 PM, m-j said:

As a member of the public complaining you hold a lot more influence because they fear a bad reputation. They have gone back to business as usual because they see it as a storm in a teacup because that is how it being treated.

All trainers want to win but if the owner pays they generally aren't too worried they are still making money, in my experience.

Of course they do, but you're missing my point. We were promised that certain things had changed and that the industry would be cleaning up from within, and it very obviously isn't happening.

If the only way that the industry can be kept clean is by constant public reporting, something is very broken with the system. 

[melzawelza]

13 hours ago, Maddy said:

Of course they do, but you're missing my point. We were promised that certain things had changed and that the industry would be cleaning up from within, and it very obviously isn't happening.

If the only way that the industry can be kept clean is by constant public reporting, something is very broken with the system. 

Exactly. If the only way to keep this sport clean is for members of the public to happen to be privvy to the corrupt happenings within and then report it, then the sport has proven once again that it can't self regulate and clean itself up and it's time to finish it.

 

Maddy has the unique ability to be 'part' of the industry without actually being part of it, so she sees these things and can speak out and report, sure, but most of the time the only people who know this is going on is the people well and truly involved in the sport and the corruption. Relying on outsiders to be the only gatekeepers for accountability in the industry is not a sustainable model for welfare and is, quite frankly, bullshit. 

[asal]

do you realise that could be applied to all illegal activities?

 

if only those involved were expected to police their fellows there would be no need for the police force either, there are bad people in every single walk of life why expect only those involved with animals to be held accountable for the actions of others and punished by association?

 

do you really think those who are honest have a clue what the guy two doors down is doing? Even next door for that matter, regardless of where they live or who they are how many murders have occurred only this month and the neighbours didnt have a clue the horror the murdered was trying to survive? So feel for that poor woman who ran with her children to a neighbour seeking refuge and her bastard of a husband came after her and shot her in front of everyone and then himself. at least that bastard wont be out on bail in a few years like the rest do.

 

should everyone in that street be tried for being complicit in the murder that took place?

 

I am not drawing a long bow, this is what you are expecting of those in the greyhound or any other animal related industry.

Edited May 9, 2017 by asal

[melzawelza]

1 hour ago, asal said:

do you realise that could be applied to all illegal activities?

 

if only those involved were expected to police their fellows there would be no need for the police force either, there are bad people in every single walk of life why expect only those involved with animals to be held accountable for the actions of others and punished by association?

 

do you really think those who are honest have a clue what the guy two doors down is doing? Even next door for that matter, regardless of where they live or who they are how many murders have occurred only this month and the neighbours didnt have a clue the horror the murdered was trying to survive? So feel for that poor woman who ran with her children to a neighbour seeking refuge and her bastard of a husband came after her and shot her in front of everyone and then himself. at least that bastard wont be out on bail in a few years like the rest do.

 

should everyone in that street be tried for being complicit in the murder that took place?

 

I am not drawing a long bow, this is what you are expecting of those in the greyhound or any other animal related industry.

No, I'm expecting the industry itself to be able to police it's members and clean up the sport. They have never been able to do that, they promised they'd be able to do it after they nearly lost it all, and yet the issues still exist.

[Maddy]

1 hour ago, melzawelza said:

No, I'm expecting the industry itself to be able to police it's members and clean up the sport. They have never been able to do that, they promised they'd be able to do it after they nearly lost it all, and yet the issues still exist.

I wouldn't bother replying to asal. Her "argument" is nothing more than an attempt to muddy the waters and draw attention to issues that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Not unlike much of her contributions to this thread, actually. Perhaps she honestly believes she is playing devil's advocate but the comparison was so incredibly offensive that I'm having a lot of trouble wording this so that it doesn't sound like a personal attack. 

Anyway, we're not even just talking about regular participants here. We're talking about stewards. The people who ARE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THE POLICING. Did I make that clear enough, asal? 

[asal]

6 minutes ago, Maddy said:

I wouldn't bother replying to asal. Her "argument" is nothing more than an attempt to muddy the waters and draw attention to issues that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Not unlike much of her contributions to this thread, actually. Perhaps she honestly believes she is playing devil's advocate but the comparison was so incredibly offensive that I'm having a lot of trouble wording this so that it doesn't sound like a personal attack. 

Anyway, we're not even just talking about regular participants here. We're talking about stewards. The people who ARE ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THE POLICING. Did I make that clear enough, asal? 

completely agree with you on that. they have a job and should be doing it.

 

many comments seem to expect ALL greyhound owners and trainers to know who is breaking the law and do something. hence my comment.

[m-j]

Audits are part of many service providers work life for the very reason people don't self regulate, it keeps them honest. We have work safe inspectors because people don't self regulate, it is a big part of life in general why should the people in this industry be treated differently?