Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[Steve]

and yet we find it Ok to use poisons on dingos because they get in our way.

use them to fix problems we cause but implant with a time activated poison.... I am appalled. 1080 Symptoms

In humans, the symptoms of poisoning normally appear between 30 minutes and three hours after exposure. Initial symptoms typically include nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain; sweating, confusion, and agitation follow. In significant poisoning, cardiac abnormalities including tachycardia or bradycardia, hypotension, and ECG changes develop. Neurological effects include muscle twitching and seizures; consciousness becomes progressively impaired after a few hours leading to coma. Death is normally due to ventricular arrhythmias, progressive hypotension unresponsive to treatment, and secondary lung infections.[5]

Symptoms in domestic animals vary: dogs tend to show nervous system signs such as convulsions, vocalization, and uncontrollable running, whilst large herbivores such as cattle and sheep more predominantly show cardiac signs.[22]

Sub-lethal doses of sodium fluoroacetate may cause damage to tissues with high energy needs — in particular, the brain, gonads, heart, lungs, and fetus. Sub-lethal doses are typically completely metabolised and excreted within four days.[23]

http://www.abc.net.a...saviour/7652424

Amazing isnt it - now they get to send in mad dogs to rip goats apart .

Nuts

[Rebanne]

and yet we find it Ok to use poisons on dingos because they get in our way.

use them to fix problems we cause but implant with a time activated poison.... I am appalled.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-23/dingoes-set-to-become-pelorus-island-environmental-saviour/7652424

as am I. This is deliberate cruelty but "they" are allowed to do it. Yet "they" complain about shooting a dog. Euthanasia by a vet is not always a easy death either.

[Steve]

I'm not a fan of industry self regulation, I think it would be exponentially better to have an independent external regulatory body, but the reality is that it isn't going to happen. The public aren't interested in paying for regulation and the government has no interest in regulation of industry, and I don't see any way forward from there.

Personally I do what I can in my sphere of influence and ability, I'm working in an area of animal welfare research, I promote good ethical breeders and breeding practices, I call out unethical practices where I see them and I support the development of inclusive industry bodies which are working towards development of codes of practice and industry wide policies on welfare. For example the horse industry council which seeks to unite the fragmented horse industry (even more fragmented than companion animals IMO). Is it perfect? No but it's what we currently have and all we really have to work with. It is bloody hard trying to unite a very diverse industry, akin to herding cats, especially when some have more power and influence than others, and some have more ethical behaviour than others, but as far as I can tell it MUST be done if any of us are to survive in the future.

I don't have an objection to regulation but there's an awful lot of regulation already. Other posters have pointed out that GRNSW is a NSW Government body, which automatically deletes it from the self-regulation category anyway. Where was GRNSW in this? Pedigree dog breeders belong to their state ANKC body. Has a Code of Ethics but it is not a regulatory body. Dog breeders have to comply with whatever state laws there are about dog breeding so where is self-regulation in this? State bodies are, at best, just dog clubs. They have no policing powers whatsoever.

I don't think there is a lot of regulation, there are plenty of laws which are rarely enforced (until the shit hits the fan), there are government bodies increasingly looking to outsource these responsibilities, and there are a lot of little groups coming under the umbrella of "industry". While the dog clubs are their own entities they still come under this umbrella as far as public and government perception is concerned. Certainly there are links, some clubs are linked to some sports and showing more so than others, everyone uses the same services such as vets and products, that's what makes it an industry. Ideally we want to have an industry representative group which covers all canine pursuits, everyone contributes and everyone helps to keep the industry clean. Just as farmers contribute to their industry groups even though the way the different sectors operate may be very different and subject to very different pressures, an example of this may be something like meat and livestock Australia.

Feels like there is a lot of regulation to me - little of which has to do with the science of the species but more and more as if dogs are humans. We have to make constant choice on best practice over regulation and the younger people coming through are educated by taking for granted that because its a law or a regulation it must be what is best for the dogs. I dont agree with self regulation when some groups are offered exemptions from behaving like the rest of the "industry" Greyhound racing was and is in most states still a prime example of this and even though it was sanctioned by state governments it was policed and regulated by their own board. They had their own codes which counteracted state codes all breeders have to comply with and complaints are kept and dealt with in house. Vicdogs is similar in Victoria as their breeders who own less than 10 fertile dogs have exemptions to having to comply with breeding codes . this is why the MDBA will not apply for these exemptions for our members until some things are changed within the system. The RSPCA and AWL have no third party accountability and if you have complaint about any of them it is also handled in house. Bit the same as the church with complaints of sex crimes.

[Steve]

and yet we find it Ok to use poisons on dingos because they get in our way.

use them to fix problems we cause but implant with a time activated poison.... I am appalled.

http://www.abc.net.a...saviour/7652424

as am I. This is deliberate cruelty but "they" are allowed to do it. Yet "they" complain about shooting a dog. Euthanasia by a vet is not always a easy death either.

Makes me sick to my stomach not just because of the way they are killing the dogs but the way they are allowing the goats to be treated. Its disgusting

[WoofnHoof]

I'm not a fan of industry self regulation, I think it would be exponentially better to have an independent external regulatory body, but the reality is that it isn't going to happen. The public aren't interested in paying for regulation and the government has no interest in regulation of industry, and I don't see any way forward from there.

Personally I do what I can in my sphere of influence and ability, I'm working in an area of animal welfare research, I promote good ethical breeders and breeding practices, I call out unethical practices where I see them and I support the development of inclusive industry bodies which are working towards development of codes of practice and industry wide policies on welfare. For example the horse industry council which seeks to unite the fragmented horse industry (even more fragmented than companion animals IMO). Is it perfect? No but it's what we currently have and all we really have to work with. It is bloody hard trying to unite a very diverse industry, akin to herding cats, especially when some have more power and influence than others, and some have more ethical behaviour than others, but as far as I can tell it MUST be done if any of us are to survive in the future.

I don't have an objection to regulation but there's an awful lot of regulation already. Other posters have pointed out that GRNSW is a NSW Government body, which automatically deletes it from the self-regulation category anyway. Where was GRNSW in this? Pedigree dog breeders belong to their state ANKC body. Has a Code of Ethics but it is not a regulatory body. Dog breeders have to comply with whatever state laws there are about dog breeding so where is self-regulation in this? State bodies are, at best, just dog clubs. They have no policing powers whatsoever.

I don't think there is a lot of regulation, there are plenty of laws which are rarely enforced (until the shit hits the fan), there are government bodies increasingly looking to outsource these responsibilities, and there are a lot of little groups coming under the umbrella of "industry". While the dog clubs are their own entities they still come under this umbrella as far as public and government perception is concerned. Certainly there are links, some clubs are linked to some sports and showing more so than others, everyone uses the same services such as vets and products, that's what makes it an industry. Ideally we want to have an industry representative group which covers all canine pursuits, everyone contributes and everyone helps to keep the industry clean. Just as farmers contribute to their industry groups even though the way the different sectors operate may be very different and subject to very different pressures, an example of this may be something like meat and livestock Australia.

Feels like there is a lot of regulation to me - little of which has to do with the science of the species but more and more as if dogs are humans. We have to make constant choice on best practice over regulation and the younger people coming through are educated by taking for granted that because its a law or a regulation it must be what is best for the dogs. I dont agree with self regulation when some groups are offered exemptions from behaving like the rest of the "industry" Greyhound racing was and is in most states still a prime example of this and even though it was sanctioned by state governments it was policed and regulated by their own board. They had their own codes which counteracted state codes all breeders have to comply with and complaints are kept and dealt with in house. Vicdogs is similar in Victoria as their breeders who own less than 10 fertile dogs have exemptions to having to comply with breeding codes . this is why the MDBA will not apply for these exemptions for our members until some things are changed within the system. The RSPCA and AWL have no third party accountability and if you have complaint about any of them it is also handled in house. Bit the same as the church with complaints of sex crimes.

The same happens in the horse world as well, most horse owners have to comply with space requirements for housing horses (1 acre per horse usually), doesn't apply to racehorses, when EI happened racehorse owners were paid $60 per day to keep a horse in work so that racing could start up again straight away, even when the virus was spreading racehorses were allowed to move when the rest of us couldn't, horses died because they couldn't get to a vet surgery, racehorses were vaccinated as a priority. Money talks. It isn't fair but if racing goes down so do the rest of us so we have to try and work with them.

[dogbesotted]

and yet we find it Ok to use poisons on dingos because they get in our way.

use them to fix problems we cause but implant with a time activated poison.... I am appalled.

http://www.abc.net.a...saviour/7652424

as am I. This is deliberate cruelty but "they" are allowed to do it. Yet "they" complain about shooting a dog. Euthanasia by a vet is not always a easy death either.

Makes me sick to my stomach not just because of the way they are killing the dogs but the way they are allowing the goats to be treated. Its disgusting

so we poison wild dogs/dingos when they predate on our sheep and goats.. we bemoan the killing and maiming and the suffering of our precious animals but such killing and maiming is acceptable when the animals are a nuisance to us, and horrific deaths for the wild dogs and dingos are also seen as perfectly ok...

rabbits as well: Stage 1 – Initial reduction

Where rabbit density is medium to high, the objective is to reduce the population to a manageable level - usually by a poisoning program, but only during the non-breeding season. If control must be carried out during the breeding season, use warren ripping or fumigation. Breeding may occur during most times of the year, but usually follows milder seasons when conditions are conducive to pasture growth. Initial reduction may also be achieved by the arrival (natural or introduced) of rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus (RHDV) or myxomatosis.

Edited July 24, 2016 by dogbesotted

[Steve]

and yet we find it Ok to use poisons on dingos because they get in our way.

use them to fix problems we cause but implant with a time activated poison.... I am appalled.

http://www.abc.net.a...saviour/7652424

as am I. This is deliberate cruelty but "they" are allowed to do it. Yet "they" complain about shooting a dog. Euthanasia by a vet is not always a easy death either.

Makes me sick to my stomach not just because of the way they are killing the dogs but the way they are allowing the goats to be treated. Its disgusting

so we poison wild dogs/dingos when they predate on our sheep and goats.. we bemoan the killing and maiming and the suffering of our precious animals but such killing and maiming is acceptable when the animals are a nuisance to us, and horrific deaths for the wild dogs and dingos are also seen as perfectly ok...

rabbits as well: Stage 1 – Initial reduction

Where rabbit density is medium to high, the objective is to reduce the population to a manageable level - usually by a poisoning program, but only during the non-breeding season. If control must be carried out during the breeding season, use warren ripping or fumigation. Breeding may occur during most times of the year, but usually follows milder seasons when conditions are conducive to pasture growth. Initial reduction may also be achieved by the arrival (natural or introduced) of rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus (RHDV) or myxomatosis.

this is what happens when you send city people in to find a solution to country issues.

[asal]

I'm not a fan of industry self regulation, I think it would be exponentially better to have an independent external regulatory body, but the reality is that it isn't going to happen. The public aren't interested in paying for regulation and the government has no interest in regulation of industry, and I don't see any way forward from there.

Personally I do what I can in my sphere of influence and ability, I'm working in an area of animal welfare research, I promote good ethical breeders and breeding practices, I call out unethical practices where I see them and I support the development of inclusive industry bodies which are working towards development of codes of practice and industry wide policies on welfare. For example the horse industry council which seeks to unite the fragmented horse industry (even more fragmented than companion animals IMO). Is it perfect? No but it's what we currently have and all we really have to work with. It is bloody hard trying to unite a very diverse industry, akin to herding cats, especially when some have more power and influence than others, and some have more ethical behaviour than others, but as far as I can tell it MUST be done if any of us are to survive in the future.

I don't have an objection to regulation but there's an awful lot of regulation already. Other posters have pointed out that GRNSW is a NSW Government body, which automatically deletes it from the self-regulation category anyway. Where was GRNSW in this? Pedigree dog breeders belong to their state ANKC body. Has a Code of Ethics but it is not a regulatory body. Dog breeders have to comply with whatever state laws there are about dog breeding so where is self-regulation in this? State bodies are, at best, just dog clubs. They have no policing powers whatsoever.

I don't think there is a lot of regulation, there are plenty of laws which are rarely enforced (until the shit hits the fan), there are government bodies increasingly looking to outsource these responsibilities, and there are a lot of little groups coming under the umbrella of "industry". While the dog clubs are their own entities they still come under this umbrella as far as public and government perception is concerned. Certainly there are links, some clubs are linked to some sports and showing more so than others, everyone uses the same services such as vets and products, that's what makes it an industry. Ideally we want to have an industry representative group which covers all canine pursuits, everyone contributes and everyone helps to keep the industry clean. Just as farmers contribute to their industry groups even though the way the different sectors operate may be very different and subject to very different pressures, an example of this may be something like meat and livestock Australia.

Feels like there is a lot of regulation to me - little of which has to do with the science of the species but more and more as if dogs are humans. We have to make constant choice on best practice over regulation and the younger people coming through are educated by taking for granted that because its a law or a regulation it must be what is best for the dogs. I dont agree with self regulation when some groups are offered exemptions from behaving like the rest of the "industry" Greyhound racing was and is in most states still a prime example of this and even though it was sanctioned by state governments it was policed and regulated by their own board. They had their own codes which counteracted state codes all breeders have to comply with and complaints are kept and dealt with in house. Vicdogs is similar in Victoria as their breeders who own less than 10 fertile dogs have exemptions to having to comply with breeding codes . this is why the MDBA will not apply for these exemptions for our members until some things are changed within the system. The RSPCA and AWL have no third party accountability and if you have complaint about any of them it is also handled in house. Bit the same as the church with complaints of sex crimes.

yes and you know where that gets you, CEO or a Cardinals or Archbishops hat

Edited July 24, 2016 by asal

[asal]

80% of people doing the right thing leaves 20% of people doing the wrong thing and not enough being done by anyone to fix that, I don't justify anything but to me if a problem is so endemic that to effectively address it would decimate the industry to a point that it is no longer viable as an industry (as indicated by the report) then it's not really surprising that it was decided they are not capable of self regulation.

Clearly the public and the community has decided that the industry's actions (or lack thereof) are unjustifiable, so to them at least 20% of participants doing the wrong thing is the line in the sand.

Said it before and I will say it again, the writing has been on the wall for a long time, for ALL animal industries. When you are part of a community you have rights taken away all the time, everyone has the right to apply for a drivers license, they lose that right when they show they are not capable of the responsibility. Same thing is now happening at an industry level.

The question is not, why should good people have their rights taken away, but why should good people keep their rights when they do nothing about the bad ones? Everyone in the industry knew about the "bad eggs", as a whole they had the power to stop it but didn't.

Everyone does have the right to a drivers L but I don't have my right removed because someone else shows they are not capable of the responsibility. You assume that the other 80% had enough information and evidence to do something about it or that if THEY did try to do something about it that the governing body would respond. I can front up right now to the ANKC and tell them someone is breeding dogs with conformation so bad that their dogs are suffering and they will laugh at me.i can say this here on this forum and I will be told that its O.K. because the breed wasn't meant to run around the block.

You can place this type of evaluation onto any group which has little or no or little outside accountability.

Actually it does happen with licenses, Ls and Ps are placed on restrictions, they can't have I think it's 8 cylinder vehicles in some states, the same rules don't apply, so yes their rights are restricted by the actions of a few which amounted to a critical mass, not every P plater can't handle the power of a V8 but enough of them couldn't that it was decided they all shouldn't drive one until they have sufficient experience.

As a group they behave and as a group they are judged, as they say, no one ever said that life was fair.

And it's as a group we have the power, the 80% can and do have the power to change things.

I see it all the time in dressage, high level riders yanking and kicking and basically showing off the worst of the sport for the world to see, and the rest of us tut tut and say "what can we do?", they are at the top we are at the bottom, but without us paying our fees and supporting our little comps and buying the products with their names on them they are nothing, nobodies. We do have power.

but they wring their hands and cough up their membership because they want to be able to compete, instead of shunning ea and join something else. as for voting, ea has it sewn up the articles of association, the board is unaccountable now.

Edited July 24, 2016 by asal

[HazyWal]

Curious timing...evidence of mass grave and cattle prod footage referred to police by GRNSW. I hate this. I can clearly see both sides of the argument - the report is horrendous but of course there are decent people being caught up. I don't know what the solution is. GRNSW seem incapable of overseeing the industry that's for sure.

Did you watch the video of the cattle prod? If they were using it to make the dog run faster then why didn't the lids open? The lure went past twice...dog didn't run so what was the point of the exercise? Why was the person videoing the thing just filming the bloke doing the prodding and I think the most glaring mistake they made was why was there no GSOD (commonly known as the greyhound scream of death)? There was audio of them talking but not a sound from the dog. That dog would've been screaming and thrashing around in the box if it had been zapped with 6000 volts in fact, it would've probably killed it. Reeks of a anti racing style set up to me.

[HazyWal]

There are so many holes in the report, also how many vets will go out to properties and euthanaise 40-50 dogs, not many I suspect.

Can you expand on these holes please?

Well I don't know about you but the drowning of the pups in the very start of the report gave me a "what the?" moment. Pups don't even go to the breakers until around 12 months old so how do you know they are slow or non chasers? Why would anyone pay, for instance, around $4000 for a Fernando Bale straw, then the associated costs with whelping and then drown them before they even had a chance to be taught lead walking let alone being broken in. It made no sense to me and then of course we find out that this was copied and pasted from a guy named Ernie...in 2005...in the USA. What a joke. The report has so many holes in it you could strain your pasta through it. As someone said on an article I read when McHugh started backpeddling and retracting points, "this is what happens when a decision has been made and then a report is written to justify it" spot on.

This article in the DT explains some of it, the barristers are still pulling it apart so there will be interesting times ahead.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/gaping-holes-in-flawed-greyhound-report/news-story/415a3dca32b0d0959f339365dd726c48

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks HazyWal - appreciate your input. Any chance you could post the article please as I've hit a pay wall.

I will have a look at those parts of the report - do you mean the start of the volume on wastage? I've had a quick look and can only find one quote in Volume One. Reference was clearly given ie not submitted as evidence.

1 Atkinson and Young, (2008) at 86 cited by the Australian Working Dog Alliance in “Review & Assessment of Best Practice, Rearing, Socialisation, Education & Training Methods for Greyhounds in a Racing Context.” Ex S (17-19 November 2015), p. 25.

Edited July 24, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[moosmum]

Woof, I've seen this 'police our own' comment come up quite a lot in relation to the greyhound industry and with pedigree dogs. Somehow every greyhound trainer and breeder is supposed to know what everyone else is doing. Same with ANKC breeders. If like to know how I, as a dog owner, is supposed to know what someone I see once in a while at a dog show, that I don't know personally, does with their dogs. The idea of policing our own is so full of holes that it should be instantly dismissed by anyone with a brain.

excellent point. look at the wonderful job the churches has done to "police our own" on the pedophile front. about time they were shut down too.

I think its the whole idea of 'our own' Vs 'theirs' Multiple environments rather than shared environment.

That environment can go, Its standard identity is foreign to 'our own'.

Theres IS no common identity to account. Its all 'Other' to 'standards' of identity.

See, this is why I failed as an academic. I don't write like ^.

Nah, No one should. That was just...lousy.

I agree with you tho'. Re policing your own.

[HazyWal]

Thanks HazyWal - appreciate your input. Any chance you could post the article please as I've hit a pay wall.

I will have a look at those parts of the report - do you mean the start of the volume on wastage? I've had a quick look and can only find one quote in Volume One. Reference was clearly given ie not submitted as evidence.

1 Atkinson and Young, (2008) at 86 cited by the Australian Working Dog Alliance in “Review & Assessment of Best Practice, Rearing, Socialisation, Education & Training Methods for Greyhounds in a Racing Context.” Ex S (17-19 November 2015), p. 25.

Sorry TSD I can't get back in either but here is a few of them.

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks Hazy - again, I appreciate it. Honestly the report is HUGE and I don't have the time or the motivation to check all those claims. Changes that were made in review are not unusual in such a huge report. Whoever made the poster should be putting this in writing to GRNSW and/or the government with references.

[HazyWal]

Thanks Hazy - again, I appreciate it. Honestly the report is HUGE and I don't have the time or the motivation to check all those claims. Changes that were made in review are not unusual in such a huge report. Whoever made the poster should be putting this in writing to GRNSW and/or the government with references.

The poster was not made by an industry person it was in the article I posted from the Daily Telegraph. There is no point in anyone putting anything in writing to either GRNSW or the government, it falls on deaf ears as it doesn't fit the agenda. Now today the figures of wastage (48k to 68k) have been found to be grossly inflated and are aactually around 7%. It seems GRNSW have been sitting on information that they neglected to make available. Why? as yet no one knows as GRNSW have declined to comment.

If you can't access this link, google 'dog deaths a fraction of report' and you should get in, I did.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/secret-figures-claim-real-dog-wastage-fraction-of-mchugh-report/news-story/e8410a8a913ae19188bdc959064291d3

[stellnme]

Who did supply that poster then? I have found that the Telegraph's journalists are, in the main, very biased towards sustaining the "industry" - and why wouldn't they when multiple pages are given to racing results and coverage. The Telegraph has just run a dodgy poll where people could vote multiple times - and the shut down brigade won, much to the paper's disgust, I would imagine. Greyhound trainers and owners supplied much of the damning information in the McHugh report - and yes, I have read it.

Do you mean that all the greyhound rescuers, vets and assistants who have witnessed and have knowledge of the wastage and cruelty and ex racing people who have withdrawn from the industry once they knew what was going on , not to mention Lyn White and Animals Australia who obtained the disgusting footage of small animal cruelty - which has been known to have gone on for many years, are mistaken?

Owners will not have to hand in their dogs, they just can't race them. If the dogs are "adored" as they claim, then surely it won't be too hard to look after and keep them.

Having lived in the country most of my life, I am yet to find anyone who doesn't want greyhound racing banned. It isn't the sport of the "little men" - it is a multi million dollar industry, not sport. Australia has evolved enough to not want greyhounds bled out at vets, used in dental experiments, shipped overseas to the death pits in Asia and put down in confronting numbers when they don't perform. The overwhelming majority of people simply don't condone it.

Reading some of these posts here leads me to ask what side of the fence are some of the people on? This is the best chance to stop the cruelty to greyhounds and be in line with the rest of the world. That has to be such a good thing, surely? Why would you be looking for reasons for it to continue?

Edited July 26, 2016 by stellnme

[HazyWal]

TSD here are some key points addressed in the report.

http://www.racingtoarespectedfuture.com.au/app/uploads/2016/07/NSWGreyhoundRacingIndustryAlliance-FactSheet.pdf

This from GRNSW showing what had been put in place for reform in the last 12 months.

http://www.grnsw.com.au/news/then-and-now--12-months-of-reform

I also follow the Australian Racing Greyhound website, particularly the articles written by my vet here in Victoria Des Fegan, a leading greyhound vet in this country with decades of experience in greyhounds not only here but also in his home country of Ireland but also in the UK where he is very well respected and very missed by the UK racing industry. Des has just resigned from the AVA after their support of the ban in NSW. Of course in the comments section of this article you will see three comments by three well known anti's, none of them reside in Australia and wouldn't know him if they fell over him nor do they realise he is used regularly by greyhound rescue groups here in Victoria. He's still a "parasite" apparently O.o

http://www.australianracinggreyhound.com/australian-greyhound-racing/new-south-wales-greyhound-racing/fegan-fires-off-at-the-ava-after-supporting-bairds-greyhound-ban/79645

TSD it seems you are interested in researching both sides of the arguement. There are many pro racing FB pages that are public where you can follow the facts that are unfolding, if you are interested PM me. I cannot believe that people honestly think this is not a land grab by Baird but that he has done this on compassionate reasons. If the welfare of the dogs were his priority he would've (as said by Des Fegan in the above article) fazed out racing over a number of years. There are not just the greyhounds currently racing that face an abrupt end there are pups on the ground, dogs under 12 months old at rearers and breakers, brood bitches and some that haven't even whelped yet! The over breeding of greyhounds is the major problem in racing IMO, healthy dogs being PTS should not be happening. Too many dogs bred means too many dogs dead. In the last 12 months in NSW breeding has dropped to 47%, all these figures are available to the public but no one seems to know about them, maybe they don't want to. Besides the dogs this just doesn't affect those employed directly by the industry. You have meat suppliers, delivery drivers, kennel manufacturers, kibble producers (do you know how many thousands of kilos of kibble greyhounds consume yearly?) transporters the list is endless not to mention rural communities that are crushed by this. One meat supplier in the small town of Willow Tree near Newcastle, population 160 and the biggest employer in town have said this will finish them, they will close down.

Although I was born into a racing family I have been on both sides, the rescue and the racing and after what I have personally gone through with rescue and what I am watching unfold from them I stand solidly behind the good people in the greyhound industry. I've dealt with some disgusting people in racing but I have met some fantastic people as well and in my 50 years experience the good far outweigh the bad.

[WoofnHoof]

I would be very surprised at a wastage of only 7%, does that mean that 93% go on to live long and fulfilling lives? Would love to know how they achieve that.

[dragonwoman]

I would be very surprised at a wastage of only 7%, does that mean that 93% go on to live long and fulfilling lives? Would love to know how they achieve that.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics............and creative fudging