Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[gapvic]

That's right Rebanne, the entry fee here in Victoria is $0 and has been for about two years now. We have not had a food donor for many years.

I suspect that the figure quoted for the cost of putting each greyhound through GAP NSW would include salaries and all running costs associated with the Program. The more greyhounds put through, and the quicker they are adopted, the lower the cost to adoption groups.

And thank you Lhok, yes, that was the article I was trying to link to.

Edited July 30, 2016 by gapvic

[asal]

spotted this, good summation dont you think of the problem. "ANIMAL ACTIVISTS AT IT AGAIN!!!

Animal extremists will never stop, they fail to understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare, they have no idea about animal husbandry, nor do they understand or appreciate the connection man and beast have had for eons.

Help us win this war that is raging against all animal sports and industries! Join us today, or our tomorrow will be doubtful... Everyone is welcome to unite with us!"

[Steve]

spotted this, good summation dont you think of the problem. "ANIMAL ACTIVISTS AT IT AGAIN!!!

Animal extremists will never stop, they fail to understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare, they have no idea about animal husbandry, nor do they understand or appreciate the connection man and beast have had for eons.

Help us win this war that is raging against all animal sports and industries! Join us today, or our tomorrow will be doubtful... Everyone is welcome to unite with us!"

Where did this quote come from Asal?

[HazyWal]

spotted this, good summation dont you think of the problem. "ANIMAL ACTIVISTS AT IT AGAIN!!!

Animal extremists will never stop, they fail to understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare, they have no idea about animal husbandry, nor do they understand or appreciate the connection man and beast have had for eons.

Help us win this war that is raging against all animal sports and industries! Join us today, or our tomorrow will be doubtful... Everyone is welcome to unite with us!"

Where did this quote come from Asal?

National Greyhound Racing United FB page. Posted on July 28 in response to the rally held yesterday against the carriage horses in the Melbourne CBD.

https://web.facebook.com/NGRU2015/

[asal]

spotted this, good summation dont you think of the problem. "ANIMAL ACTIVISTS AT IT AGAIN!!!

Animal extremists will never stop, they fail to understand the difference between animal rights and animal welfare, they have no idea about animal husbandry, nor do they understand or appreciate the connection man and beast have had for eons.

Help us win this war that is raging against all animal sports and industries! Join us today, or our tomorrow will be doubtful... Everyone is welcome to unite with us!"

Where did this quote come from Asal?

National Greyhound Racing United FB page. Posted on July 28 in response to the rally held yesterday against the carriage horses in the Melbourne CBD.

https://web.facebook.com/NGRU2015/

thanks, I lost the page just after I copied and then couldn't find it again.

[m-j]

In regards to the 7% wasteage, recently the GOTBA (Greyhound Owners, Trainers and Breeders Association) sent out a survey asking members to send in the ear brand and breeding of the retired greys in their Kennel or back yard. They are the people who know what dogs have been registered as race dogs, they are ear branded at 3months or they don't race which makes the purpose of owning the dog null and void. I'm guessing this is where that figure came from. It still isn't a true indicator as I missed out on doing his as I didn't read the email in time so my three are not accounted for, the previous dogs I've put into pet homes, that are still alive haven't been accounted for and they wouldn't have been as they are not in my back yard, how many others missed out older people who don't have email etc. In the past you didn't have to say what you did with your retired dogs, now in NSW you do.

Greyhound Racing Regulation 2016

Written by: Greyhound Racing NSW

On 15 July 2016, the NSW Government introduced the Greyhound Racing Regulation 2016 which requires that owners of greyhounds registered in NSW to notify or seek consent from Greyhound Racing NSW (GRNSW) before transferring the ownership of, retiring, exporting or destroying a greyhound.

The Regulation has been prepared following the NSW Government’s decision to close down the greyhound racing industry from 1 July 2017 and will assist in the tracking and welfare of greyhounds during the wind down process.

The new Regulation requires the owner of a registered greyhound to notify GRNSW, in writing, before transferring the greyhound:

• to another registered owner, or

• to an RSPCA approved greyhound adoption program.

Participants can notify GRNSW by completing the Notification of Transfer Form and sending it to GRNSW at [email protected] or post it to PO Box 170, Concord West NSW 2138.

In addition, the Regulation prohibits a registered greyhound owner, except with the written consent of GRNSW, from:

• retiring a greyhound from racing;

• exporting a greyhound overseas;

• transferring a greyhound to a person who is not a registered owner, or

• destroying a greyhound.

To request consent from GRNSW, please complete the Consent Form and send it to GRNSW at [email protected] or post it to PO Box 170, Concord West NSW 2138.

Persons found to have breached the Regulation are liable to a maximum fine of up to $550. GRNSW may also take further action against anyone found to have breached the Regulation.

Participants must not retire a greyhound from racing, export a greyhound, transfer a greyhound to a person who is not a registered owner, or destroy a greyhound unless they have received written consent from GRNSW.

In the case of destruction of a greyhound, GRNSW consent is not required if the greyhound is destroyed by a veterinary practitioner in an emergency in order to relieve it of suffering or distress due to injury or illness.

I'm pretty sure this only refers to Greys registered with the GRNSW, I see it as the industry being made transparent and accountable which in my books is great. The GRNSW is not going to take dogs off people what are they going to do with them?? It just gives them the capability to say you said you had this dog in your kennel it isn't here please explain and here is your fine or you're out of this industry.

As far as the lure coursing dogs being caught up in this, if you aren't doing the wrong thing I don't understand what the issue is, unless you have rabbits as pets. To say just because there is no money is involved in a sport so everyone does the right thing is so wrong. Some of the things I have seen in the show and obedience ring and at training has made me shudder and I have reported an incident. These things were done in public goodness knows what happens at home judging by some of the body language I have seen from dogs, which is them telling the story, makes me wonder. Admittedly I haven't been involved in any dog sports for quite a few years but I did notice that with positive motivational training methods being used more, the body language of the majority of dogs has certainly improved but the sports are self regulated and not everyone is ethical.

[Diva]

Not everyone is ethical in any domain, better ban all pets as that is the only way you can be sure no one is doing the wrong thing. The big deal with lure coursing is that no one should be singled out to have their rights impinged because someone who knows nothing thinks they 'might' do something, despite no evidence they would. I thank my lucky stars I don't live in NSW because if the rule came in I would have to either stop lure coursing my dogs or get rid of the 13 yr old cat they share their beds with. Because, you know, there is such a high chance I might stick the cat on a lure.

[m-j]

Not everyone is ethical in any domain, better ban all pets as that is the only way you can be sure no one is doing the wrong thing. The big deal with lure coursing is that no one should be singled out to have their rights impinged because someone who knows nothing thinks they 'might' do something, despite no evidence they would. I thank my lucky stars I don't live in NSW because if the rule came in I would have to either stop lure coursing my dogs or get rid of the 13 yr old cat they share their beds with. Because, you know, there is such a high chance I might stick the cat on a lure.

I suppose that's how the many ethical trainers feel. Their rights were impinged on also as the bait animal rule has been in for a long time. I didn't think that cats came under the ban on bait creatures, can't remember. Only a very small percentage of lucky people who race dogs make any money out of it otherwise I would have been racing dogs. Up until the four corners report it was all anecdotal evidence, just like my stories of what I have seen. I think to save many dog's lives the unethical need to shown this is not a storm in teacup, it won't blow over and you will be policed. Like with the job I'm in a the moment I need to do a lot of work that I don't like or want to do and quite a bit is done in my own time because of unethical people. I have a the same choice as the lure coursers in NSW either do what is required or get another job or in their case, hobby.

[Diva]

Yeah but why? There is nothing more potentially unethical about the hobby than there is about ANY amateur dog sport. Nothing. They chase plastic bags. They KNOW they are plastic bags. Why should we change hobbies for a deeply flawed regulatory proposal. Instead, why shouldn't the proposal be howled down as the embarrassing stupidity it is?

The only logic in this regulation is as a step to banning all pets. It has zero logic otherwise. It is not about preventing cruelty. There is no cruelty.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Diva

[m-j]

Yeah but why? There is nothing more potentially unethical about the hobby than there is about ANY amateur dog sport. Nothing. They chase plastic bags. They KNOW they are plastic bags. Why should we change hobbies for a deeply flawed regulatory proposal. Instead, why shouldn't the proposal be howled down as the embarrassing stupidity it is?

The only logic in this regulation is as a step to banning all pets. It has zero logic otherwise. It is not about preventing cruelty. There is no cruelty.

It's all about dogs chasing something, enhancing that drive, as I mentioned with my story about the showing and trialling unethical things are done just to satisfy egos. Can you say you know all the lure coursers in your state and how they train. I'm guessing lure coursers don't bait with animals but I suppose it could be a just in case measure. I'm with you it is stupid but unfortunately it is same the kind of sport.

[Lhok]

I suppose that's how the many ethical trainers feel. Their rights were impinged on also as the bait animal rule has been in for a long time. I didn't think that cats came under the ban on bait creatures, can't remember. Only a very small percentage of lucky people who race dogs make any money out of it otherwise I would have been racing dogs. Up until the four corners report it was all anecdotal evidence, just like my stories of what I have seen. I think to save many dog's lives the unethical need to shown this is not a storm in teacup, it won't blow over and you will be policed. Like with the job I'm in a the moment I need to do a lot of work that I don't like or want to do and quite a bit is done in my own time because of unethical people. I have a the same choice as the lure coursers in NSW either do what is required or get another job or in their case, hobby.

You don't need to own pets, perhaps we all need to get another hobby and not have pets because of the potential that someone might do harm.

Better take away schools, churches, any social group or even employment because there is a potential that someone might do harm.

That's the problem with slippery slope answers to problems where does it end because the ban it all method to prevent cruelty can be applied to just about everything.

--Lhok

[Diva]

No, chasing live animals does not increase the drive to chase plastic. The dogs are not that stupid. My reluctant courser has no reluctance when she sees a fox or rabbit on the farm. That enthusiasm does not carry over to plastic, it is notorious that it does not. Those comments show you know nothing about the sport at all.

And lure coursing is pretty much the least ego driven of the dog sports, as my overseas friends who do both would say "We show for us. We course for the dogs".

And no it isn't the same kind of sport as greyhound racing, that is like saying pony club is the same kind of sport as thoroughbred racing. We have none of the incentives that plague the racing industry - no prize money, no gambling, no prestige.

'Just in case' is no reason. That is just some arrogant few wanting to impinge the rights of ordinary people.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Diva

[m-j]

I suppose that's how the many ethical trainers feel. Their rights were impinged on also as the bait animal rule has been in for a long time. I didn't think that cats came under the ban on bait creatures, can't remember. Only a very small percentage of lucky people who race dogs make any money out of it otherwise I would have been racing dogs. Up until the four corners report it was all anecdotal evidence, just like my stories of what I have seen. I think to save many dog's lives the unethical need to shown this is not a storm in teacup, it won't blow over and you will be policed. Like with the job I'm in a the moment I need to do a lot of work that I don't like or want to do and quite a bit is done in my own time because of unethical people. I have a the same choice as the lure coursers in NSW either do what is required or get another job or in their case, hobby.

You don't need to own pets, perhaps we all need to get another hobby and not have pets because of the potential that someone might do harm.

Better take away schools, churches, any social group or even employment because there is a potential that someone might do harm.

That's the problem with slippery slope answers to problems where does it end because the ban it all method to prevent cruelty can be applied to just about everything.

--Lhok

I agree maybe the Greyhound industry doesn't provide enough votes as it is a minority that is exclusive and elusive and there are many who support the end of it. The examples you have given are necessary and majority groups.

[m-j]

No, chasing live animals does not increase the drive to chase plastic. The dogs are not that stupid. My reluctant courser has no reluctance when she sees a fox or rabbit on the farm. That enthusiasm does not carry over to plastic, it is notorious that it does not. Those comments show you know nothing about the sport at all.

And lure coursing is pretty much the least ego driven of the dog sports, as my overseas friends who do both would say "We show for us. We course for the dogs".

And no it isn't the same kind of sport as greyhound racing, that is like saying pony club is the same kind of sport as thoroughbred racing. We have none of the incentives that plague the racing industry - no prize money, no gambling, no prestige.

'Just in case' is no reason. That is just some arrogant few wanting to impinge the rights of ordinary people.

It's not about the material the lure is made out of, Greys chase plastic replicas of an animal that tweets not squeals, it is the movement, it is about enhancing that drive. I spent 10 yrs teaching pups to chase a toy, if the toy wasn't moving they showed no interest in it, move it and they were straight onto it. In fact lure coursing is closer to chasing a living animal than the lure on a track in that the lure goes along the ground. I had to train my pups to chase the toy in the air by starting it on the ground and gradually raising it or they showed little interest in it if it was in the air initially. Which is why the poor animals in the four corners report were tied to the raised lure. I had a couple of pups that lacked interest in movement initially, so to gain their interest I went and scented a toy with fox fur plucked from a road kill fox, the scent did get them interested then small movements got them chasing, then they realised what fun it was.

The Greyhound people didn't make the rule extend to the lure coursers the Government did.

The incentive is the competition why compete if you are not competitive, you can be social with your dogs in other ways that doesn't include competition.

Edited July 31, 2016 by m-j

[Diva]

I didn't say the greyhound people extended the recommendation to lure coursing, where did you get that from?

I believe the original proposal came from the RSPCA, who proposed that no sighthound should be able to live with a small animal, even if the dog had nothing to do with coursing. The inquiry limited it to coursing dogs, still not questioning the sheer insult of assuming sighthound owners are all animal abusers in waiting.

Of course it is the quick movement, but lure coursing dogs have every chance to catch the bags at the end. They know what they are chasing.

The incentive of competition is not the same as the incentives of prize money and gambling.

You really think it was the thrill of competition that drove those barbaric racing practices? I think it was money, greed pure and simple. No money in lure coursing. No gambling. No wastage. No crime. No cruelty. Very different to racing. I am not going tit for tat with you all night, but lure coursing is not the same as greyhound racing, and should not be dragged into the mess the racers have made. Pony club vs the Melbourne Cup.

[Salukifan]

Yeah but why? There is nothing more potentially unethical about the hobby than there is about ANY amateur dog sport. Nothing. They chase plastic bags. They KNOW they are plastic bags. Why should we change hobbies for a deeply flawed regulatory proposal. Instead, why shouldn't the proposal be howled down as the embarrassing stupidity it is?

The only logic in this regulation is as a step to banning all pets. It has zero logic otherwise. It is not about preventing cruelty. There is no cruelty.

It's all about dogs chasing something, enhancing that drive, as I mentioned with my story about the showing and trialling unethical things are done just to satisfy egos. Can you say you know all the lure coursers in your state and how they train. I'm guessing lure coursers don't bait with animals but I suppose it could be a just in case measure. I'm with you it is stupid but unfortunately it is same the kind of sport.

Yes, I can. There is only one club and one set of gear in NSW.

Members don't "train". They condition. The dogs either have the drive to chase a plastic bag or they don't. They see the bags on try out or trial days. A couple of members have access to a straight drag. That's it.

It is a sport for pet dogs that allows dogs to use their prey drive in a safe way that does not involve any live game. That's the whole point of it.

To compare it to a greyhound racing is simply inaccurate. There are no boxes, no oval tracks and no need to race in a bunch. No betting, no syndication, no 'wastage'.

Just in case my armpit. The dogs know its a plastic bag. They're looking at it when it starts and grabbing it when it finishes.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[m-j]

I didn't say the greyhound people extended the recommendation to lure coursing, where did you get that from?

I believe the original proposal came from the RSPCA, who proposed that no sighthound should be able to live with a small animal, even if the dog had nothing to do with coursing. The inquiry limited it to coursing dogs, still not questioning the sheer insult of assuming sighthound owners are all animal abusers in waiting.

Of course it is the quick movement, but lure coursing dogs have every chance to catch the bags at the end. They know what they are chasing.

The incentive of competition is not the same as the incentives of prize money and gambling.

You really think it was the thrill of competition that drove those barbaric racing practices? I think it was money, greed pure and simple. No money in lure coursing. No gambling. No wastage. No crime. No cruelty. Very different to racing. I am not going tit for tat with you all night, but lure coursing is not the same as greyhound racing, and should not be dragged into the mess the racers have made. Pony club vs the Melbourne Cup.

Sorry my misunderstanding re the people you were talking about that have tarred lure coursers with the same brush as the unethical Greyhound people. Just as the ethical people have been except lure courses haven't got the whole country down on them and lure coursers aren't having their right to participate in and enjoy their sport because of the unethical ones taken away from them altogether. Like I said I agree with you the law probably is stupid.

Yes the Greys do get to catch a toy, otherwise they wouldn't chase, some states do it on the track with the lure, some do it in the catching pen, my pups always got drive satisfaction with the toy.

Like I said very few make money out of racing, yes hoping that they will have the next Brett Lee and all that would go with it is incentive but very few actually reach that goal, otherwise like I said I would have been racing dogs. The wealthy people in the sport of both horse racing and dog racing are wealthy because they have other means to make money.

I didn't say that the sport of lure coursing is the same as racing from the human perspective, just the drive that the dog is working with to enable you to compete in the sport is, which is why I was assuming the law of not being able to have bait animals on your property has been extended to lure coursers. If the rule has been extended to people who own sighthounds well that is also ridiculous. Especially if you had seen my Greyhound the other day at the vet several days ago completely ignoring a rabbit in a cage right next to her and the cat on the counter above her and the cats and rabbit in the cages at the pet shop today, yet she is more than happy to chase a toy.

Edited July 31, 2016 by m-j

[asal]

I didn't say the greyhound people extended the recommendation to lure coursing, where did you get that from?

I believe the original proposal came from the RSPCA, who proposed that no sighthound should be able to live with a small animal, even if the dog had nothing to do with coursing. The inquiry limited it to coursing dogs, still not questioning the sheer insult of assuming sighthound owners are all animal abusers in waiting.

Of course it is the quick movement, but lure coursing dogs have every chance to catch the bags at the end. They know what they are chasing.

The incentive of competition is not the same as the incentives of prize money and gambling.

You really think it was the thrill of competition that drove those barbaric racing practices? I think it was money, greed pure and simple. No money in lure coursing. No gambling. No wastage. No crime. No cruelty. Very different to racing. I am not going tit for tat with you all night, but lure coursing is not the same as greyhound racing, and should not be dragged into the mess the racers have made. Pony club vs the Melbourne Cup.

Sorry my misunderstanding re the people you were talking about that have tarred lure coursers with the same brush as the unethical Greyhound people. Just as the ethical people have been except lure courses haven't got the whole country down on them and lure coursers aren't having their right to participate in and enjoy their sport because of the unethical ones taken away from them altogether. Like I said I agree with you the law probably is stupid.

Yes the Greys do get to catch a toy, otherwise they wouldn't chase, some states do it on the track with the lure, some do it in the catching pen, my pups always got drive satisfaction with the toy.

Like I said very few make money out of racing, yes hoping that they will have the next Brett Lee and all that would go with it is incentive but very few actually reach that goal, otherwise like I said I would have been racing dogs. The wealthy people in the sport of both horse racing and dog racing are wealthy because they have other means to make money.

I didn't say that the sport of lure coursing is the same as racing from the human perspective, just the drive that the dog is working with to enable you to compete in the sport is, which is why I was assuming the law of not being able to have bait animals on your property has been extended to lure coursers. If the rule has been extended to people who own sighthounds well that is also ridiculous. Especially if you had seen my Greyhound the other day at the vet several days ago completely ignoring a rabbit in a cage right next to her and the cat on the counter above her and the cats and rabbit in the cages at the pet shop today, yet she is more than happy to chase a toy.

The facts are that just about all dogs can/will chase, hunt, even kill, in some circumstances or opportunity , Cavalier King Charles are supposed to be a lap dog. I saw a 6' 7" brown snake reduced to 5 separate pieces by two cavaliers whose yard it decided to enter.

Sighthound,s now, once ticked off the list the move will be onto the next target for elimination

Edited July 31, 2016 by asal

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I didn't say that the sport of lure coursing is the same as racing from the human perspective, just the drive that the dog is working with to enable you to compete in the sport is, which is why I was assuming the law of not being able to have bait animals on your property has been extended to lure coursers. If the rule has been extended to people who own sighthounds well that is also ridiculous. Especially if you had seen my Greyhound the other day at the vet several days ago completely ignoring a rabbit in a cage right next to her and the cat on the counter above her and the cats and rabbit in the cages at the pet shop today, yet she is more than happy to chase a toy.

The whole thing only has the status of a recommendation right now. If the NSW Government has half a brain it will not adopt these Recommendations given the shaky basis on which they were made (no consultation, no understanding of the sport).

But remember that the NSW RSPCA did want it to extend to all sighthounds. The Commission didn't go that far, but it is a warning shot from the RSPCA about how far it wants to intrude into people's pet owning. I note also tho' that both the QLD and Vic RSPCA run lure coursing at their public days including the MPW in Victoria. So, left hand, right hand...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Just in case my armpit. The dogs know its a plastic bag. They're looking at it when it starts and grabbing it when it finishes.

I think this is something some people would only understand once they have been to a try out day and seen a dog who is brand new run eagerly after the zippy movement of a plastic bag.

For those wondering why a dog would chase a bag, we all know that dogs respond to movement by chasing in other contexts (frisbees, sticks, balls, toys etc). There is nothing about a plastic bag that makes it intrinsically any different from a ball if you want to talk drive. And dog owners don't throw guinea pigs around to get their dogs to chase balls, it would be a nonsense to think anyone would.

Edited July 31, 2016 by SkySoaringMagpie