Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[Are You Serious Jo]

Frightening.

sure is.

very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away.

then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today?

We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids.

Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing

Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too.

Just have to mention, none of the asylum seekers imprisoned here are ISIS infiltrators, terrorists don't sit in a prison for three years being tortured. If you look at terrorist stats they are on the whole home grown.

Australia is going to poo on many different levels and all that freedom we love is being taken away. I agree that something needed to be done about the rogues in the racing industry but now look what is happening. How do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Now you won't be able to own a sighthound if you own cats. People have to leave the state or give up their pets.

[asal]

Frightening.

sure is.

very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away.

then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today?

We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids.

Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing

Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too.

Just have to mention, none of the asylum seekers imprisoned here are ISIS infiltrators, terrorists don't sit in a prison for three years being tortured. If you look at terrorist stats they are on the whole home grown.

Australia is going to poo on many different levels and all that freedom we love is being taken away. I agree that something needed to be done about the rogues in the racing industry but now look what is happening. How do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Now you won't be able to own a sighthound if you own cats. People have to leave the state or give up their pets.

you could be forgiven to thinking to govt must think they might be how else on earth can they justify the treatment, they have less rights than convicted murderer's?

[corvus]

I've been reluctant to comment here, but I feel compelled to put things in perspective. The commission recommended that dogs participating in lure coursing be registered as coursing dogs, and this would mean laws put in place to prevent live baiting in the greyhound industry would apply to owners of lure coursing dogs (not all sighthounds, and not dogs that are not currently participating in lure coursing). It is understandable how they made that leap, but it is nowhere near a done deal. For starters, if greyhound racing is indeed banned, no such law would be necessary. The recommendation applies to the situation that the greyhound racing industry continues. If it does continue, the recommendation may be adopted or not. One would hope there would be some consultation if adopting it were being considered. I think that is even in the report.

It's a stupid and ill-informed recommendation. I hope that if it comes to that, someone might bother to investigate further before killing the sport. It's important to note it is not a foregone conclusion, though.

At the end of the day, I feel any industry that needs dramatic reform should be given a chance to do so with some clear guidance that tells them how far the bar needs to be raised and by when. Self-directed change is a joke in most cases. I have honestly been amazed how far GRNSW has come in such a short time all on their own, but some clear and measurable targets and deadlines may have been enough to get most of the industry participants in line. I have met quite a few over the last 6 months. There are lots of people involved that genuinely want reform or will toe the line wherever it is drawn because they always have. The greyhound racing industry in NSW is going to spend the next year fighting the ban, meaning if it does actually go through, no one is going to be properly prepared for it anyway. I'm not sure what Baird really expects. I don't think he cares much about the victims of his decision, though.

Edited July 27, 2016 by corvus

[moosmum]

All of us are part of animal industries, we buy pet food, we engage veterinary services, just because we don't make money doesn't mean we aren't part of it all.

I see what you mean but as I said above, polcing our own is fraught with difficulties.

Since when were men told police your own and stop rape and pedophilia or you will all be castrated?

since when have we been told police your own or you will all be jailed in case you murder?

Steal a car, rob a house, commit corporate crime, the list is endless. Since when did it become everyone's fault and accountability for those who commit a crime? Thats what the police are there for, arrest the perpetrator, not everyone living within a ten K area, same thing, conviction by association in that case in the general area . not hold the entire population accountable or everyone cops the sentence.

That's what we are being duped into if you aren't taking it in. since when does having an animal of any kind mean you must be responsible for the actions of every other who has?

Is every married man held responsible for not ending domestic violence? Or could be jailed for inaction against those who do?

Every woman held responsible for not ending child abuse? or she loses the right to keep her own child?

why fall for something that pits all animal owners against each other? If you don't stand together and demand a entire group should not be punished for the misdeeds of some. you not only don't know but never knew or met, Thats how AR is dividing and conquering.

Its been a slow progress, I can remember when The campaign began in the 80's, a whole new word game began, setting breeder against breeder and when did Peta begin, March 1980, its been a long time but they have little by little bit by bit pitted one against the other. very successfully

Even crazier many of the laws being passed, the ankc's are agreeing to and implementing aren't even in the best interests of the dogs, ask any reproduction vet. But hey thats what happens when the ones in the decision making process are AR reps with no or too few with actual knowledge. Just read the conditions for keeping them in the code of practice, its the blueprint for puppy farming. Concrete kennels and pens, can be charged for keeping them in your home?

This. One more attempt at explaining.

The standards set an independent environment. All by them selves. The K.Cs are an environment. All good.

Values are brought to support an environment, by what it contains.

By what it allows to contribute.

But in promoting an ideal that its the only valid environment worthy of support, those values can't be BROUGHT to that environment of 'standards'. The only values the standard can accept, are in itself. That environment accepts nothing beyond its self identity.

It must constantly re-define its identity, against the environment beyond its own self.

You have an identity that lives only in its 'self'. It can't 'live' any where else.

The values that support it can't be allowed to 'live' any where else.

It can't define its 'self' by its role in the environment, only by what that role is not.

The K.cs are not anything out side their 'self'.

Their values ( standards) don't 'live' anywhere else but the K.Cs. Being exclusive to those standards, no other values can be brought to them.

They MUST reduce any thing that does not belong to the self of the K.Cs.

They don't BRING value to dogs. They reduce values that don't bring any thing to whats wanted.

The K.cs must define their role in the environment by what they won't accept. What is NOT a part of their own role in the environment or 'self'.

The standards are already exclusive by their very nature AS an environment. An environment is limited only by what its make up contains.

An entity is limited only by its responses to its environment. It adds value to increase that environment.

If the entities of that environment can't accept 'standards' that are foreign to its make up, that can't happen.

That is what exclusivity of environment does. Its a perception of self, imposed on the environment.

Values can't be brought to that environment because its 'contained' in its 'self'.

The role of the K.C identity in its community, are the standards that define environments as separate entities with no common purpose or values. Because they are exclusive to their own standards.

So no, people in general won't defend those who aren't doing anything wrong. The environment/entity of Greyhound racing is judged as a whole separate entity that has no place in the same environment.

You can't 'Bring ' health to the breeds, you can only exclude dogs that don't have it.

You can't 'Bring' stability to a dogs temperament, you can only exclude dogs that don't show it.

You can't 'Bring' values to those who keep dogs, you can only exclude those who don't have the ones you want.

You can have standards. But standards will collapse with out the values that built them. That they are based on.

***

Standards are NOT the same as values.

Values are a response, to the limitations of an environment.

Standards ARE the limitations. If your values ARE the limitations, your can only alter conditions by limiting them.

So in effect, your exclusivity has created a demon summonsed to appear in a pentagram drawn on its navel.

You believe every one breeding dogs should do so to your standards, yet yet insist you hold your standards exclusively?

Then standards for all can only become so exacting and exclusive, theres no value to be added or recognized. Just standard environments that fail to meet expectations beyond their 'self' identities.

An environment is the space you are in.

Its made of all that shares that space.

You expand the space by introducing things you want. If they add value to other entities sharing the space, they introduce them too. Because they DO SEEK VALUE.

And you will adopt values YOU see demonstrated as bringing some thing worth while. The space expands and grows.

But if the space itself is seen as the value, As the standard of what a space should look like, then you can only throw out the parts of the space that don't look so pretty or fit the space you will accept.

You don't take responsibility for the shape of the space by your OWN responses.

You eliminate the responses you don't like by eliminating the space that allows or supports them.

My language might be lot less confusing if people would say what parts they don't get, So I don't need to say so much at once. Its a lot to contain in a few paragraphs.

Its just physics applied to biological theory. It shouldn't be this hard.

Edited July 29, 2016 by moosmum

[Are You Serious Jo]

Frightening.

sure is.

very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away.

then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today?

We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids.

Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing

Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too.

Just have to mention, none of the asylum seekers imprisoned here are ISIS infiltrators, terrorists don't sit in a prison for three years being tortured. If you look at terrorist stats they are on the whole home grown.

Australia is going to poo on many different levels and all that freedom we love is being taken away. I agree that something needed to be done about the rogues in the racing industry but now look what is happening. How do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Now you won't be able to own a sighthound if you own cats. People have to leave the state or give up their pets.

you could be forgiven to thinking to govt must think they might be how else on earth can they justify the treatment, they have less rights than convicted murderer's?

You have to understand asal, that the government know they aren't criminals, but they use them to scare people because they are convenient tools. Asylum seekers in Australia are 45 times less likely to commit crimes than other Australians, that is immigration data. By making people believe these are dangerous would be terrorists they win elections. Plus the whole detention industry is very lucrative. Yes they have less rights than convicted murderers, we don't have a bill of rights in Australia so the government does what it likes to them. Go read the coalitions thread though because I don't want to derail here. I am happy to fill you in on exactly what this government is doing to innocent people and what laws they are also breaking to do so.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I've been reluctant to comment here, but I feel compelled to put things in perspective. The commission recommended that dogs participating in lure coursing be registered as coursing dogs, and this would mean laws put in place to prevent live baiting in the greyhound industry would apply to owners of lure coursing dogs (not all sighthounds, and not dogs that are not currently participating in lure coursing). It is understandable how they made that leap, but it is nowhere near a done deal. For starters, if greyhound racing is indeed banned, no such law would be necessary. The recommendation applies to the situation that the greyhound racing industry continues. If it does continue, the recommendation may be adopted or not. One would hope there would be some consultation if adopting it were being considered. I think that is even in the report.

It's a stupid and ill-informed recommendation. I hope that if it comes to that, someone might bother to investigate further before killing the sport. It's important to note it is not a foregone conclusion, though.

I agree it is not a foregone conclusion and I'm fairly confident the NSW Government will see reason, but not completely confident. Stupider things have happened and so we can't be complacent.

I disagree that it is understandable to make the link. Lure coursing has NOTHING to do with racing in a practical sense and I cannot find a way to place it in the Commission's terms of reference. Given the Commission's desire to explore the history of coursing (also, IMO, not really all that relevant to racing) I can see how it ended up there but it shouldn't have. If they had bothered to talk to us at all, which they did not, they would have understood better what the various pursuits aim to do.

Yes racing trainers use a variety of lures in their training, just as a number of amateur dog sport people use flirt poles and similar toys. Just because something uses a lure, it doesn't make it lure coursing. It might be trail hunting, or racing, or just training in drive. I have never heard of any racing people using a field to "lure course" their charges in as part of training to race, it would be a nonsense. Lure coursing is a very specific activity, involving pegging out a course that takes a number of turns over acres of ground and the aim is not just speed, but a variety of attributes (agility, endurance, follow, enthusiasm)

The key point that any dog owner should be aware of tho' is the policy position of the NSW RSPCA on this - they advise the NSW Government. It was them who wanted the ban on keeping coursing heritage breeds with potential bait animals based on no evidence at all but just a view that we would do the wrong thing eventually. This is a really creepy turn in companion animal policy.

[Rebanne]

Lure coursing for racing greyhounds is (was) strong in Vic. Yes it is only on a straight line but they are indeed coursing a drag lure. There are (were) 2 clubs within 90 minutes of me. My knowledge is several years old now but it was big back then.

[gapvic]

50% of greyhounds are unsuitable for rehoming? God help the dogs in NSW.

My link

[Papillon Kisses]

50% of greyhounds are unsuitable for rehoming? God help the dogs in NSW.

My link

FYI that article is behind a paywall.

[Lhok]

I think this is the article:

Bureaucrats charged with the mammoth task of winding up NSW’s $335 million greyhound racing industry are scrambling to lay the foundations for a trans­ition expected to put the lives of 12,000 dogs in the balance.

In documents obtained by The Australian, Department of Prim­ary Industries officials have ­acknowledged the rate of euthan­asia from the ban will be “high” and contingency plans need to ­include alliances with pet crema­tion services and opening up crown land for temporary greyhound shelters.

In minutes from a greyhound welfare teleconference attended by departmental and RSPCA offic­ials on July 11, the group heard that more than 12,000 dogs were likely to be handed over to the RSPCA and adoption agencies by owners and breeders ­unable to look after them when racing ends.

But infrastructure to handle the wave of homeless dogs is limited, and prospects for rehoming the dogs are traditionally low.

The group, which included RSPCA chief executive Stephen Coleman and NSW director Karen Heath, heard that typically less than half the dogs presented for adoption are able to make the transition into household pets.

For the dogs that can go into family homes, waiting times in foster care can be long and, even then, many of the dogs are “generally not suited to be around small animals or small children, due to their strong prey drive”.

The costs associated with rehom­ing the dogs are also considerable, the group heard, with the average greyhound costing $3000 to retrain and rehome, compared with euthanasia, which costs $150-$200 a dog.

The meeting minutes highlight the impact of the ban, which state parliamentarians are likely to vote on next week, and the task NSW Greyhounds Transition Taskforce co-ordinator-general John Keniry faces bringing the ­industry to an orderly close.

The government is already understood to be sounding out potential for co-operation with listed vet service provider and pet crematorium owner Greencross.

In the interim, the government will assess the potential for building temporary dog shelters on crown land or other sites owned by the likes of the Royal Agricultural Society and other large-scale landowners, and also consider converting old poultry sheds, farm sheds and industrial buildings for the purpose.

Despite greyhound advocates and animal rights experts downplaying the potential for widespread adoption of dogs, adoption agencies across the state have seen a surge in interest for retired greyhounds as pets.

Sydney woman Michelle ­Osborne took eight-year-old Sally into her Smithfield home in the week before Premier Mike Baird ­announced his intention to ban racing in NSW, and has already put in an application to adopt another.

“They’re the ideal pet,” she said of Sally, who is also happy to be around cats.

“She’s well trained, well socialised and she’s fine around the cats too ... any better and she’d be making us cups of coffee.”

--Lhok

[Diva]

'Converting old poultry sheds' .... I would bet that they end up housing the dogs in conditions that would get a breeder prosecuted.

[Are You Serious Jo]

'Converting old poultry sheds' .... I would bet that they end up housing the dogs in conditions that would get a breeder prosecuted.

Yep.

[Sheridan]

'Converting old poultry sheds' .... I would bet that they end up housing the dogs in conditions that would get a breeder prosecuted.

Yep.

And if they weren't so crowing about killing a pile of dogs would probably have the AR whackos on another day up in arms about battery hen conditions.

[*kirty*]

$3000 to rehabilitate and rehome a Greyhound? Geez what are they doing to them to rehabilitate them? Plating them in gold?

[Sheridan]

$3000 to rehabilitate and rehome a Greyhound? Geez what are they doing to them to rehabilitate them? Plating them in gold?

Maybe the RSPCA needs a new building.

[The Spotted Devil]

It's an interesting one - GAP NSW figures indicate $2,360 is spent on rehoming each dog - page 192, Vol 2.

[*kirty*]

I just don't see how that is possible. What are GAP staff getting paid?? I mean desex, vacc, microchip and maybe even a dental would be less than $1000 per dog. Premium food for 2-3 months is only going to be $100-$200. Where does the rest come from? Totally absurd.

[The Spotted Devil]

I just don't see how that is possible. What are GAP staff getting paid?? I mean desex, vacc, microchip and maybe even a dental would be less than $1000 per dog. Premium food for 2-3 months is only going to be $100-$200. Where does the rest come from? Totally absurd.

Overheads I imagine - housing dogs whilst they're waiting to be fostered out or assessed (purchasing or leasing property), accounting for costs for dogs that fail, governance and oversight. They dropped the surrender fee lower and lower so it was cheaper than euthanasia. I think it dropped to $50 and there were plans to drop it to $15.

Edited July 30, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[*kirty*]

I still think the amount is ludicrous and they mist be paying some decent staff wages to account for such a cost.

[Rebanne]

To put a greyhound into GAP Victoria it. used to cost the owner $100 and a C5 vaccination. Not sure what they have to pay nowadays. They also used to get the food donated to them or supplied at cost price. Again not sure what happens now.

ETA just did a quick check, the "entry" fee is now 0, but the dogs still need a C5 to get in.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Rebanne