Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[Salukifan]

Reading some of these posts here leads me to ask what side of the fence are some of the people on? This is the best chance to stop the cruelty to greyhounds and be in line with the rest of the world. That has to be such a good thing, surely? Why would you be looking for reasons for it to continue?

There is a world of difference between being "pro-racing" or having to be being "anti"

In the middle there's me. I can see there are issues. I know decent people in the industry and I know how they are gutted by this. Decades of breeding, selecting, investing in dogs and bloodlines, all gone forever. I also have a strong objection to the idea that such decent people are fair game for collective punishment by government based on the actions of a minority. In most other contexts, this decision would have civil libertarians in an uproar.

I know I believe in a democratic process for deciding these things. That process has been given the finger by Mr Baird who has taken one recommendation of a report that should be put to parliament and made an arbitrary decision that the industry has only 12 months to cease. THAT decision is going to see a lot of dogs die unnecessarily and I'm on the side of the dogs.

There are other models to look at. Models ignored and indeed denied by areas of the animal rights movement who point to the USA and tell you about the ban in most states. What they conveniently forget to mention is that while COMMERCIAL racing is banned, hobby racing by owners without betting or significant prize money is not.

I'm also on the side of people listening to both sides of the issue and informing themselves before buying a very carefully organised campaign run, at least in part, by people who see any companion animal as an anachronism that should be phased out.

The fact that the only reason some people can see for resistance to a virtually immediate ban on the sport would be the retention of personal benefit speaks volumes about the levels of ignorance about this issue that are currently dictating public opinion.

It's a crying shame, particularly for the dogs.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[stellnme]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

[Salukifan]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

You really ARE buying the rhetoric aren't you. How familiar are you with the goals of organisations like PETA?

"Rehomed where possible". Riiight. And the RSPCA is already saying that they won't be able to cope. Yep, we have to destroy dogs in order to save them. REALLY?

Guns don't live and breathe. Today's Greyhounds do. Furthermore it is still possible to own a firearm and shoot in NSW. It won't be possible to race a dog in NSW or, if the full recommendations are implemented, lure course with one for many people.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[SkySoaringMagpie]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

Did you read what she wrote? And did anyone read what Diva wrote upthread? I will tell you where the companion animal phase out stuff kicks in. There are two Recommendations in that report that have nothing to do with Greyhound racing, but which, if implemented, would penalise pet dog owners that the report itself acknowledges are law abiding and NOT engaging in live baiting.

It's important to understand that the original policy position of the NSW RSPCA when lobbying on these Recommendations was that any coursing heritage breed - whippets, afghans, salukis etc - should be required to be registered on a special "coursing register" even if all the dog ever did was sit on the couch. This registration would have then invoked the provisions of the POCTAA which would have meant that you could not have potential bait animals in your home even if at no time in your life you ever engaged in amateur racing or lure coursing. So the NSW RSPCA wanted people to have to pick between their pet whippet and their pet cat. If that is not BSL, and a shot across the bows of pet ownership, I don't know what is.

The Commission didn't go that far, but it did not speak to any representatives of lure coursing or to DogsNSW when it formulated recommendations that would require anyone engaging in the amateur sport of lure coursing to put their dogs on an additional register and give up their pet cats and chooks. Again, the report concedes they have no proof anyone in amateur dog sport is live baiting, but they think we might. If the Commission had even come out and viewed an event it would have seen that it is impossible to stick a bait animal on our lure coursing lines given the tie down pulleys that are used.

It's ignorance, and while you can say "oh well, I don't have a whippet so whatever" next time it might be you and your dog that somebody who knows zip about your dogs and your sport decides to use as a policy wedge. I can tell you that being in the firing line of this stuff tends to be a wake up call.

[Salukifan]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

Did you read what she wrote? And did anyone read what Diva wrote upthread? I will tell you where the companion animal phase out stuff kicks in. There are two Recommendations in that report that have nothing to do with Greyhound racing, but which, if implemented, would penalise pet dog owners that the report itself acknowledges are law abiding and NOT engaging in live baiting.

It's important to understand that the original policy position of the NSW RSPCA when lobbying on these Recommendations was that any coursing heritage breed - whippets, afghans, salukis etc - should be required to be registered on a special "coursing register" even if all the dog ever did was sit on the couch. This registration would have then invoked the provisions of the POCTAA which would have meant that you could not have potential bait animals in your home even if at no time in your life you ever engaged in amateur racing or lure coursing. So the NSW RSPCA wanted people to have to pick between their pet whippet and their pet cat. If that is not BSL, and a shot across the bows of pet ownership, I don't know what is.

The Commission didn't go that far, but it did not speak to any representatives of lure coursing or to DogsNSW when it formulated recommendations that would require anyone engaging in the amateur sport of lure coursing to put their dogs on an additional register and give up their pet cats and chooks. Again, the report concedes they have no proof anyone in amateur dog sport is live baiting, but they think we might. If the Commission had even come out and viewed an event it would have seen that it is impossible to stick a bait animal on our lure coursing lines given the tie down pulleys that are used.

It's ignorance, and while you can say "oh well, I don't have a whippet so whatever" next time it might be you and your dog that somebody who knows zip about your dogs and your sport decides to use as a policy wedge. I can tell you that being in the firing line of this stuff tends to be a wake up call.

Collective punishment of pet dog owners who have SFA to do with commercial greyhound racing courtesy of that champion of pets, the RSPCA. The same RSPCA who has had lure coursing at its events and whose national policy encourages the use of substitute lures etc for hunting and associated activities. And based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

Clearly no one involved in this debacle has known ANYTHING all along about lure coursing.

Fan effing tastic. And people continue to cheer.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[asal]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

I don't see it as cut and dried as you. I know to not agree is to mean you are a bad person which is how so many who would ask questions are silenced. I once had a man come and wanted to buy every guinea pig youngster I had for sale, this was about 1960 and I was well aware many greyhound trainers used live animals . Immediately suspicious I told him they had all be sold and my brother followed him, he had parked over the hill so his car was out of sight and sure enough there were two greyhounds in the back.

equally I knew people even then who had greyhounds who never did this. Unlike you I fail to see why all should be punished for the behavior of others. what is wrong with our community today that everyone involved with animals can be collateral damage even though they never offended to eliminate those who do.

isn't it a bit like castrate all men because a significant percentage commit rape and domestic violence ? It is the same mentality.

Why has it come about that if you have animals you somehow have abrogated your rights to innocent until proven guilty that the rest of the non pet owning public are entitled too?

Martin Clunes is on ABC now.

Edited July 26, 2016 by asal

[*kirty*]

Hundreds of thousands of pet dogs and cats are PTS in pounds every year too - should we ban pet ownership?

[Sheridan]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

Did you read what she wrote? And did anyone read what Diva wrote upthread? I will tell you where the companion animal phase out stuff kicks in. There are two Recommendations in that report that have nothing to do with Greyhound racing, but which, if implemented, would penalise pet dog owners that the report itself acknowledges are law abiding and NOT engaging in live baiting.

It's important to understand that the original policy position of the NSW RSPCA when lobbying on these Recommendations was that any coursing heritage breed - whippets, afghans, salukis etc - should be required to be registered on a special "coursing register" even if all the dog ever did was sit on the couch. This registration would have then invoked the provisions of the POCTAA which would have meant that you could not have potential bait animals in your home even if at no time in your life you ever engaged in amateur racing or lure coursing. So the NSW RSPCA wanted people to have to pick between their pet whippet and their pet cat. If that is not BSL, and a shot across the bows of pet ownership, I don't know what is.

The Commission didn't go that far, but it did not speak to any representatives of lure coursing or to DogsNSW when it formulated recommendations that would require anyone engaging in the amateur sport of lure coursing to put their dogs on an additional register and give up their pet cats and chooks. Again, the report concedes they have no proof anyone in amateur dog sport is live baiting, but they think we might. If the Commission had even come out and viewed an event it would have seen that it is impossible to stick a bait animal on our lure coursing lines given the tie down pulleys that are used.

It's ignorance, and while you can say "oh well, I don't have a whippet so whatever" next time it might be you and your dog that somebody who knows zip about your dogs and your sport decides to use as a policy wedge. I can tell you that being in the firing line of this stuff tends to be a wake up call.

Terriers chase things, too.

[Salukifan]

HW, a lot of dogs are and have been dying unnecessarily for many years. The ban will save many more than are presently being euthanized in all manner of ways. The object of phasing racing out over 12 months is to allow as smooth a transition as possible and to enable many dogs who will not be kept by their owners, to be rehomed where possible.

Many people are very well informed and their opinions have been formed long ago with experience of the misdeeds of the industry - the report was just what many have known all along. I hardly think that these people want to see any companion animal phased out - where did that come from?

I remember the abuse that John Howard got from many quarters when he very bravely took his stance against general gun ownership. Many people didn't agree with that because of personal benefit but his decision has certainly been proven right.

It will be a crying shame for the dogs if it isn't closed down.

Did you read what she wrote? And did anyone read what Diva wrote upthread? I will tell you where the companion animal phase out stuff kicks in. There are two Recommendations in that report that have nothing to do with Greyhound racing, but which, if implemented, would penalise pet dog owners that the report itself acknowledges are law abiding and NOT engaging in live baiting.

It's important to understand that the original policy position of the NSW RSPCA when lobbying on these Recommendations was that any coursing heritage breed - whippets, afghans, salukis etc - should be required to be registered on a special "coursing register" even if all the dog ever did was sit on the couch. This registration would have then invoked the provisions of the POCTAA which would have meant that you could not have potential bait animals in your home even if at no time in your life you ever engaged in amateur racing or lure coursing. So the NSW RSPCA wanted people to have to pick between their pet whippet and their pet cat. If that is not BSL, and a shot across the bows of pet ownership, I don't know what is.

The Commission didn't go that far, but it did not speak to any representatives of lure coursing or to DogsNSW when it formulated recommendations that would require anyone engaging in the amateur sport of lure coursing to put their dogs on an additional register and give up their pet cats and chooks. Again, the report concedes they have no proof anyone in amateur dog sport is live baiting, but they think we might. If the Commission had even come out and viewed an event it would have seen that it is impossible to stick a bait animal on our lure coursing lines given the tie down pulleys that are used.

It's ignorance, and while you can say "oh well, I don't have a whippet so whatever" next time it might be you and your dog that somebody who knows zip about your dogs and your sport decides to use as a policy wedge. I can tell you that being in the firing line of this stuff tends to be a wake up call.

Terriers chase things, too.

Any Terrier that courses is captured by the proposed legislation.

[Sheridan]

Hundreds of thousands of pet dogs and cats are PTS in pounds every year too - should we ban pet ownership?

According to AR groups, of which I count the RSPCA as one, yes. If people who have read the report, and the example of lure coursing as the example, don't think this is a shot at pet owners then they're delusional.

[WoofnHoof]

Sure it could well be the thin end of the wedge, which is why I argue for a proactive stance and demonstrable zero tolerance for cruelty within any animal industry. Defensiveness and reactiveness is not an effective strategy here.

As someone with an interest in wastage issues in equine industries I'd really love to know how the greyhound industry manages only 7% wastage.

[Salukifan]

Sure it could well be the thin end of the wedge, which is why I argue for a proactive stance and demonstrable zero tolerance for cruelty within any animal industry. Defensiveness and reactiveness is not an effective strategy here.

As someone with an interest in wastage issues in equine industries I'd really love to know how the greyhound industry manages only 7% wastage.

Lure coursing does not involve animal cruelty. Kind of hard to be proactive when those recommendations were outside the terms of reference and there was no consultation whatsoever.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Haredown Whippets

[Sheridan]

Sure it could well be the thin end of the wedge, which is why I argue for a proactive stance and demonstrable zero tolerance for cruelty within any animal industry. Defensiveness and reactiveness is not an effective strategy here.

As someone with an interest in wastage issues in equine industries I'd really love to know how the greyhound industry manages only 7% wastage.

I have pedigree dogs. I don't receive money for them. I shell out a lot of money for them. I do not belong to an industry. I belong to a dog club. That's what the state bodies are. They're clubs. You're not the only one who talks about animal industries but it's not.

[WoofnHoof]

All of us are part of animal industries, we buy pet food, we engage veterinary services, just because we don't make money doesn't mean we aren't part of it all.

[Sheridan]

All of us are part of animal industries, we buy pet food, we engage veterinary services, just because we don't make money doesn't mean we aren't part of it all.

I see what you mean but as I said above, polcing our own is fraught with difficulties.

[WoofnHoof]

All of us are part of animal industries, we buy pet food, we engage veterinary services, just because we don't make money doesn't mean we aren't part of it all.

I see what you mean but as I said above, polcing our own is fraught with difficulties.

I know it is. But we have to try or the bad eggs take us all down.

[asal]

All of us are part of animal industries, we buy pet food, we engage veterinary services, just because we don't make money doesn't mean we aren't part of it all.

I see what you mean but as I said above, polcing our own is fraught with difficulties.

Since when were men told police your own and stop rape and pedophilia or you will all be castrated?

since when have we been told police your own or you will all be jailed in case you murder?

Steal a car, rob a house, commit corporate crime, the list is endless. Since when did it become everyone's fault and accountability for those who commit a crime? Thats what the police are there for, arrest the perpetrator, not everyone living within a ten K area, same thing, conviction by association in that case in the general area . not hold the entire population accountable or everyone cops the sentence.

That's what we are being duped into if you aren't taking it in. since when does having an animal of any kind mean you must be responsible for the actions of every other who has?

Is every married man held responsible for not ending domestic violence? Or could be jailed for inaction against those who do?

Every woman held responsible for not ending child abuse? or she loses the right to keep her own child?

why fall for something that pits all animal owners against each other? If you don't stand together and demand a entire group should not be punished for the misdeeds of some. you not only don't know but never knew or met, Thats how AR is dividing and conquering.

Its been a slow progress, I can remember when The campaign began in the 80's, a whole new word game began, setting breeder against breeder and when did Peta begin, March 1980, its been a long time but they have little by little bit by bit pitted one against the other. very successfully

Even crazier many of the laws being passed, the ankc's are agreeing to and implementing aren't even in the best interests of the dogs, ask any reproduction vet. But hey thats what happens when the ones in the decision making process are AR reps with no or too few with actual knowledge. Just read the conditions for keeping them in the code of practice, its the blueprint for puppy farming. Concrete kennels and pens, can be charged for keeping them in your home?

Edited July 26, 2016 by asal

[Lhok]

Hundreds of thousands of pet dogs and cats are PTS in pounds every year too - should we ban pet ownership?

Many people on the Animals Australia facebook page seem to think so using the same reasons that Baird is using to shut down greyhound racing. The last quote says it all really..

"Now Mr Baird has no option than to Ban Pet Ownership as well. With Puppy Farms and the fact that 250000 unwanted pets are put down each year. Pretty much the same reason for banning Greyhounds, just on a far bigger scale."

"Great work - now we just need Mike Baird to continue to adopt Animal Justice Party policies, reverse the Ag Gag laws, stop the brumby culls and place a ban on all domestic dog and cat breeding until no shelter animals need to be destroyed."

"stop the over breeding of all animals from back street breeders.."

"The thing is how many dogs and cats are put down in the pounds each year,nobody cares"

"Dogs and cats are bred for the pet industry. When they get too big or dig up the yard or the child grows tied of them they are abandoned, and unless rehoused are put down. I just would like too know how the pet industry stacks up to the greyhound industry."

"its exactly the same issue just a different industry." (Had to take the names out for privacy)

"yep. So go tackle the shelters. These guys are working on the greyhound industry for now. They cant do everything! Just be happy there is progress in this field. But yes please go do something for the shelters. Pitch in. Good on you. Thanks"

"I'm not saying two wrongs make a right at all. If you ban the greyhound industry on the grounds of cruelty that has been highlighted then you must also ban the pet industry."

"It's people doing the wrong thing that is the problem, both with greyhounds and pets. So you must ban both to solve the issues. Otherwise it's just plain Hypocrisy."

"There are a lot of organisations campaigning to stop puppy farms because they are doing some awful things also.

I personally think it should be illegal to own and breed an undesexed dog and only registered breeders with strict limits and welfare rules should be allowed to breed.Fingers crossed that is the next step governments will take."

"it's good to see so many in support of Banning Pet ownership. It's the only way to stop the cruelty."

--Lhok

[*kirty*]

Frightening.

[asal]

Frightening.

sure is.

very frightening where things are going. The Four Corners program was horrifying enough, children young as 11 locked up for stealing a car and treated so cruelly, children in solatary not even allowed to attend any form of schooling or interaction. If their parents did that corrective services would have taken their child away.

then we see Australian story, a teenage girl is denied the right to go to finish school, taken from her husband and her now family to flown wherever the immigration dept decides, agree to be deported or imprisoned as for those in charge of her, just as inhuman as the prison guards in Four Corners really, she and her husband cant even hug if they can prevent it, not even allowed to have the flowers he brought for her. This is Australia today?

We now have prison camps where the criminals have more human rights than that poor girl and the other refugees with her. Yes some are possibly isis infiltrators but that's no excuse to mentally destroy anyone surely. I am ashamed of Australia if this kind of cruelty is ok and sanctioned by the politicians that just got themselves elected and remember this is the lot who have refused her sanctuary already. are only acting now after the 4 corners expose of the children!. they have been in govt long enough to know whats going on, thank goodness for the abc or nothing would still have been done for those kids.

Barring banding together finally, and shout NO, DEMAND and VOTE for those who will not sell us out. on so many fronts or we will be seeing

Lhok has pretty accurately lined up the future on that scene too.

Edited July 26, 2016 by asal