Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[moosmum]

Is Moosmum just trying to say all dogs have value to someone no matter their origin?

That too. Unless you keep telling them different.

[Sheridan]

Is Moosmum just trying to say all dogs have value to someone no matter their origin?

That too. Unless you keep telling them different.

You couldn't have just said so?

[BarbedWire]

Is Moosmum just trying to say all dogs have value to someone no matter their origin?

That too. Unless you keep telling them different.

You couldn't have just said so?

Your point is?

[Steve]

Well - here is how I see it.

Right now there are a whole heap of people who are breeding dogs which have conformational features that give them a lesser quality of life - that's a fact.

Whilst some people who breed such dogs do so within the pedigree system far, far more of them do so outside of the pedigree system where they have a choice without third party accountability to chuck in a different breed here or there or to use papered or non papered dogs.

If the breeding of some dogs with particular conformational features are banned then it will be EVERYONE not just the pedigree breeders who will be stopped from breeding them.

If the reason for producing dogs with conformational issues is blamed on the show ring then its no longer a far stretch to see it may be possible to do to dog showing what has been done to greyhound racing.If showing dogs as well as or separate to banning some physical features is banned then obviously the pedigree breeders who show their dogs who have such features would be thrown to the wolves.

Then the ratbags can say - well they have had years to do something about it - this has been on the table at least since pedigreed dogs exposed.Their dogs still have exaggerated features and some health issues they still suffer due to the way they are selected . Blame the fact that a handful show them so they are selected for the showring and completely over look the fact that there are a bigger bunch of registered breeders who breed them and dont show and there is a massive bunch who breed them ,have greater choices and still select them with the same features.

If there cannot be shown what is being done and how it is making a difference which will clearly demonstrate that it will take us through to dogs not being born with such health problems then its a case of I told you so

Take a good look at the response last time to critics of brachy head dogs put out by the Ccs and search through their mandatory protocols for registration for such breeds and tell me you are confident that if the time comes that there is an ANKC defence because Im not liking the odds.

Within the pedigree system there is the ability to use dogs which are not pedigreed or of a different breed. There are new breeds being developed all the time .The pedigree system does not dictate community standards and a clear demonstration of that is the fact that the CCs have taken on things pushed on them by animal rights and the loud radicals who have never bred a dog which bear no resemblance to what is best for the dogs or the science of the species . Everything they do is to placate the nutters including all of the crazy new regs and policies and they still cant see that if it comes it wont be about numbers or poo on the ground it will be about how the whole industry selects dogs for breeding which produce dogs which will need special care etc their whole lives. because they just dont get that the whole rest of the world sees cruelty when they see a champion!

[Steve]

double post

Edited July 15, 2016 by Steve

[moosmum]

And it is the RSPCA who've been handed the job of rehoming the Greys. How many do you think they are going to kill as "unsuitable" for pet homes. "Cat friendly greyhounds" don't exist in their universe.

Who promotes the breed specific traits as so predictable?

[Sheridan]

And it is the RSPCA who've been handed the job of rehoming the Greys. How many do you think they are going to kill as "unsuitable" for pet homes. "Cat friendly greyhounds" don't exist in their universe.

Who promotes the breed specific traits as so predictable?

You don't think purebred dogs have breed specific traits that makes them predictable?

[Jed]

Academic weasel wording aside, this is the beginning of the end of animal ownership. All you have to do is visit an AR FB page to see how much these people hate dogs.

....or watch and listen to Animal Australia spokesman Glenys Oogjey - a total zealot. An extremely dangerous person.

Dogs, showing, breeding, dog sports, tracking, agility etc will all be banned. Peta told us that 30 odd years ago. We took no notice. It will not matter what dog breeders do, or how healthy the dogs are, they will still disappear, as compliant and kind greyhound owners will also lose their dogs.

Public has been told purebred dogs, particularly brachy breeds, are suffering. Some are. However, differentiating one suffering from one not suffering to a 3rd party is impossible. So they will all go.

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

Riding and breeding horses, including hacking, ode and dressage will probably disappear before racing. But they will all go too.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Jed

[Sheridan]

Academic weasel wording aside, this is the beginning of the end of animal ownership. All you have to do is visit an AR FB page to see how much these people hate dogs.

....or watch and listen to Animal Australia spokesman Glenys Oogjey - a total zealot. An extremely dangerous person.

Dogs, showing, breeding, dog sports, tracking, agility etc will all be banned. Peta told us that 30 odd years ago. We took no notice. It will not matter what dog breeders do, or how healthy the dogs are, they will still disappear, as compliant and kind greyhound owners will also lose their dogs.

Public has been told purebred dogs, particularly brachy breeds, are suffering. Some are. However, differentiating one suffering from one not suffering to a 3rd party is impossible. So they will all go.

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

Riding and breeding horses, including hacking, ode and dressage will probably disappear before racing. But they will all go too.

Try getting the ANKC to believe that.

[Redsonic]

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

OT, but I hardly think watching a 16 week old Peke pup run a little in Winter is proof it has no problems. The sheep, for instance, isn't puffing at all from that little run. The Peke is running by bunny hopping from hind legs to front, signs that it's back is too long for its leg length.

Stenotic nares and, in particular, elongated soft palate, are definitely progressive and likely to be worse in older dogs than in pups. Show me an adult Peke working in hot weather without curling its tongue out to clear its airway, and I'll be more convinced. The Crufts winner needed ice bricks after its little step out.

[Jed]

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

OT, but I hardly think watching a 16 week old Peke pup run a little in Winter is proof it has no problems. The sheep, for instance, isn't puffing at all from that little run. The Peke is running by bunny hopping from hind legs to front, signs that it's back is too long for its leg length.

Stenotic nares and, in particular, elongated soft palate, are definitely progressive and likely to be worse in older dogs than in pups. Show me an adult Peke working in hot weather without curling its tongue out to clear its airway, and I'll be more convinced. The Crufts winner needed ice bricks after its little step out.

The dog is considerably older now and still herding sheep etc.

go and look at the videos yourself. There are other videos of that dog - and others - working. There are heaps of vids of pekes running - but I cannot share because I have no permission.

I am over showing you things which you diss. I used to tell you but you rubbished them all. You told me my perfectly healthy dogs were sickos because some animal rights twink told you so. Well, the sicko dogs are still living in good health with no health problems, no BOAS

You obviously believe all pedigree dogs are sick.

[Sheridan]

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

OT, but I hardly think watching a 16 week old Peke pup run a little in Winter is proof it has no problems. The sheep, for instance, isn't puffing at all from that little run. The Peke is running by bunny hopping from hind legs to front, signs that it's back is too long for its leg length.

Stenotic nares and, in particular, elongated soft palate, are definitely progressive and likely to be worse in older dogs than in pups. Show me an adult Peke working in hot weather without curling its tongue out to clear its airway, and I'll be more convinced. The Crufts winner needed ice bricks after its little step out.

I'll point out (again) that the 'job' of the peke was sitting in someone's lap. It doesn't run around hills and herd sheep or catch vermin for a living. That is not its job. I have read its movement may have been deliberately bred in to stop it running off. If I was wearing a cost like that - a breed trait - and going around under those lights if probably need an ice pack, too, and so would you. I wish people would stop assuming every dog is supposed to be whizzing around a ring like a hyper springer spaniel because they're not.

[mita]

Here's the Dowager Empress T'zu Hsi describing the standards of conformation linked with behaviour of the Pekinese in the Imperial Palaces of China (its origin). :

'For its colour let it be that of a lion, a golden sable, to be carried in the sleeve of a yellow robe, or the colour of a red bear, or striped like a dragon, so that there may be dogs appropriate to every costume in the Imperial wardrobe....

Let it be taught to refrain from gadding about, let it comfort itself with the dignity of a Duchess...

Let its forelegs be bent so that it shall not desire to wander far or leave the Imperial precincts...' ( lots more, all delightful).

Not a breed intended for doing zoomies or hiking for miles in the bush. Too busy being absolutely charming in its own unique way.

Edited July 16, 2016 by mita

[Steve]

Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing

OT, but I hardly think watching a 16 week old Peke pup run a little in Winter is proof it has no problems. The sheep, for instance, isn't puffing at all from that little run. The Peke is running by bunny hopping from hind legs to front, signs that it's back is too long for its leg length.

Stenotic nares and, in particular, elongated soft palate, are definitely progressive and likely to be worse in older dogs than in pups. Show me an adult Peke working in hot weather without curling its tongue out to clear its airway, and I'll be more convinced. The Crufts winner needed ice bricks after its little step out.

I'll point out (again) that the 'job' of the peke was sitting in someone's lap. It doesn't run around hills and herd sheep or catch vermin for a living. That is not its job. I have read its movement may have been deliberately bred in to stop it running off. If I was wearing a cost like that - a breed trait - and going around under those lights if probably need an ice pack, too, and so would you. I wish people would stop assuming every dog is supposed to be whizzing around a ring like a hyper springer spaniel because they're not.

well sadly I doubt that will be enough to give a tick to those who breed them. Im pretty sure that what they were intended for and how that impacts on their health might be part of the case they try to make against them - but apart from that when you look at a champ back when showing dogs began and you could argue the type was designed to sit on a lap etc one now Im not sure thats a good defence. Feb 2016 vets in sweden have called for them to be banned as well.

source

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I'll point out (again) that the 'job' of the peke was sitting in someone's lap. It doesn't run around hills and herd sheep or catch vermin for a living. That is not its job. I have read its movement may have been deliberately bred in to stop it running off. If I was wearing a cost like that - a breed trait - and going around under those lights if probably need an ice pack, too, and so would you. I wish people would stop assuming every dog is supposed to be whizzing around a ring like a hyper springer spaniel because they're not.

well sadly I doubt that will be enough to give a tick to those who breed them. Im pretty sure that what they were intended for and how that impacts on their health might be part of the case they try to make against them - but apart from that when you look at a champ back when showing dogs began and you could argue the type was designed to sit on a lap etc one now Im not sure thats a good defence. Feb 2016 vets in sweden have called for them to be banned as well.

We have to face this somehow. I have a land race breed that is very much about function with no health issues related to its conformation. But just look at the poo function can get you into as well - no you can't have a pet cat if you have a hunting breed in case you use your cat as live bait. The only thing that is acceptable, it seems, is a dog that has no specific characteristics of any kind, except to happily accept any lazy, self-entitled rubbish the humans in its household want to subject it to. The dog has to like all dogs, not ever want to attack another species, and cheerfully accept kids pulling on its ears and sticking their hands in its foodbowl while being quiet, not at all destructive and preferably sleeping while its humans are away at work for 12 hours a day. The only answer to this is education, but how we educate when people are so divorced from the lived experience of animal husbandry is the hard part.

[WoofnHoof]

It's not just education, it's about being proactive, and being seen to be so. No use preaching to the converted.

[Sheridan]

It's not just education, it's about being proactive, and being seen to be so. No use preaching to the converted.

Some aren't converted. You can see it in posts here.

[WoofnHoof]

It's not just education, it's about being proactive, and being seen to be so. No use preaching to the converted.

Some aren't converted. You can see it in posts here.

The question is are they indicative of the general population? If so then that is what needs to be addressed. Currently the narrative that the general public is exposed to is largely AR, but AR doesn't weild the power to change, it's the public that does that. AR dominates the narrative because they are the loudest voice, and often times the only voice that the public hears. That is what needs to change. I'm working on projects that are the direct result of industry taking control of the research and the narrative on welfare, not waiting for the public ask "what are you doing to improve animal welfare?", but shouting from the rooftops "THIS is what we are doing". Adopt a culture of continuous improvement, change the narrative and become the dominant voice that the public hears.

[dog_fan]

This will never be addressed until all breeders stop being defensive and stop being victims and open their eyes to the problems they have created.

Only then can the needed changes happen.

The breeders who are trying to change are often villified for what they are doing by their peers.

The ankc is a competative system and until breeders stop this competition between themselves ar will win.

[Sheridan]

This will never be addressed until all breeders stop being defensive and stop being victims and open their eyes to the problems they have created.

Only then can the needed changes happen.

The breeders who are trying to change are often villified for what they are doing by their peers.

The ankc is a competative system and until breeders stop this competition between themselves ar will win.

Precisely the sort of post I was referring to above.