Golden Retriever Puppy Dominating

[fiwisyd]

Hi everyone,

Our GR puppy is doing pretty well with her training, but still a way to go! The issue I don't really know how to deal with is the 'dominant' behaviour. At home this means 'cornering' the children ie the game stops when she mouths or nips them, but when they try to walk away she jumps on them to grab clothes with her teeth and often gets skin too, which really hurts! She has done it with me a couple of times but much more with the children. Never with my husband. Or she tries to jump on them when they are on the sofa, and they can't get away because she tries to bite them - just a game to her, but painful. I often have to step in, and mostly she stops straight away and goes to her bed.

In the park she is actually pretty good. She has learned not to charge up to a group of dogs but to sit and wait for them to come and see her or to go up and then lie down. She gets the message pretty quickly when dogs don't want to play with her, but isn't scared - she just leaves them. If a dog snaps at her during a game she will wait then try again but give up if they are not interested.

BUT if a dog does want a game, she quickly starts to dominate the 'rumbling' - not to the point where the other dog snaps, but they sometimes run back to their owner or try and get between human legs. I constantly stop her playing, hold her till she's calm (which she doesn't mind) and then let her try again but we end up in the same place very quickly. The other dog can be any size - other goldens or labs twice her size - and she is still often the one on top. Other owners don't seem to mind - so far - and when I say something they generally say 'don't worry, they are enjoying the game' but I know a dog hiding between owner's legs is needing time out. How do I 'educate' her to manage herself - to disengage and let the other dog take control or have a break? And generally it is only a break they want - often once I have her sitting with me for 'time out' the other dogs approach her ready to play again. Same if I put her on the lead and walk away. Maybe I worry too much, but I don't want it to go too far one day if I should be doing something different now, and I wonder whether it's the same dominance that is causing the problems at home.

Will she grow out of it? Will it improve when we get her de-sexed (probably when she's 5 months)? How can I get her to see that the children (11 and 9) shouldn't be considered easy targets?!

any suggestions v welcome.

[Steph M]

Honestly that sounds less like dominance and more like bad puppy manners. Unfortunately they don't magically grow out of it, but with some good boundaries it does pass.

In the park situation I'd be working on a really good recall to call Pup back before someone does get sick of her puppy play style.

[Willem]

wrt de-sexing: you might read about the negative side effects regarding de-sexing first before you make a final decisions; GR are one of the breeds where the negative side effects are pretty good covered in studies http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/11/05/neutered-golden-retrievers.aspx.

wrt impact of de-sexing on behaviour: it is not predictable, but recent studies indicate that actually the opposite is the case - bitches showing a dominant or more aggressive behaviour before de-sexing will become more aggressive (note that there is a huge difference between dominant and aggressive so) after they have been de-sexed.

What you describe is typical puppy behaviour - it is up to you to teach her what is wanted and unwanted behaviour. Start obedience training ASAP, in a club or with a hired trainer, the longer you wait the harder it will be to erase the unwanted behaviours. You have to be absolutely clear for her: she is not allowed to bite, harass or chase the kids or anybody else. Keep her on a leash in the house as a temporary solution if this is the only way to control her for the moment.

Wrt playing with other dogs: you have to find dogs that have the same energy level and where the character match each other - that's independent from the size, e.g. our 17 kg BC best friends are 40 kg labs - don't allow her to intimidate other dogs as this is a sure recipe to start a dog fight when she finds 'her match' one day.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Willem

[persephone]

Please don't desex her so early ... she is still a baby , and will benefit from the hormones and I suggest you start attending some obedience calasses nearby :) She is playing as dogs/pups will play ..and treating the children as if they are other dogs .have a GOOD read of the e-book here ... http://www.safekidssafedogs.com/and also have a look at the following .http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/210028-german-shepherd-puppy-biting-desperate/http://leemakennels.com/blog/dog-behaviour/dog-training-dog-behaviour/how-to-stop-puppy-biting/

[DakotaJ]

I have two Golden Retrievers at the present time, both females, one 4 years and one 6 months. I agree with the previous two comments that the behaviour you describe is not dominance but bad puppy manners.

As far as the situation with the children is concerned I would say that in my experience GRs loooove children. If the children are, as would be natural, reacting to her harassing them the dog will interpret this as playing, which will encourage the behaviour. I went through the same problem with my granddaughters. Encourage the children to sit still and ignore her. An adult will need to be present to discipline the dog so she understands her behaviour is not acceptable. Keep the dog on a lead until she calms down.

As far as the problem problem with other dogs is concerned, GRs also loooove other dogs. The are naturally friendly, which is a good thing, however they seem to lack an instinct for boundaries with other dogs and are well known for "getting in other dogs faces". Again you need to be responsible for keeping her under control. I would not be taking her to dog parks and letting her run off lead. One day she will barrel up to a dog who takes offence to her exhuberance and she may end up being hurt.

GRs are also known to be slow to mature. I have been told by lots of GR owners and breeders that they are will puppies til they are two years old. I have found that mine seem to have a brain snap around 18 months sort of like " oh - so that's what she means by - stay"

The positive is that GRs are lovely friendly dogs. In general they loooove everyone and everything. They are very trainable and really want a to please their humans. I would suggest you join a dog training club and work on basic obedience. The work you put into her now will be paid back in spades when she gets older. Please don't be tempted to banish her to the outside, GRs really need to be with their family.

Edited June 30, 2016 by DakotaJ

[persephone]

A lot of adult dogs find puppy play exhausting and wearing ...

perhaps restrict her park time to time when not many other dogs are around, and when you can do some more training with her ?

I am wondering if she was maybe separated from her Mum /litter a bit early, and didn't ever learn all her manners ? This can happen, and does make it tricky!

[fiwisyd]

Thanks everyone. I'm actually relieved to hear everyone think that it's more like manners than her trying to be dominant. We are going to obedience classes already, and completed 5 weeks of puppy class before that, so the message will hopefully sink in and I need to persist. I'm arming the kids with spray water bottles so at least they can get her to let go when she's biting or hanging off them. The lead is a good idea too. She needs to learn to be part of the family (not banished outside, don't worry!). Our last GR was sooo well-mannered and good natured, and we didn't have kids when she was a pup so she probably didn't have the same compulsion to bite. She had a good play in the park today with an older lab and they balanced the play well. She is good with most dog body language, only the excited play is concerning. She was from a big litter but didn't leave till 8 weeks so I don't think it's that.

Very interesting about the desexing - vet told me that desexing before 6 months helps prevent breast cancer later but it seems there's more to it. Thanks for the links, I'll do more research into health and behavioural effects.

[Dogsfevr]

I would not be using water spray bottles on a breed that traditionally loves water .They just need to walk away or encourage the right behaviour ,the water pistol will end up becoming another game tha the pup will think is fun & encouraged

The kids are old enough to be involved more in training & to use there voice .I dare say its a case of the kids starting something but not liking the game when the pup gets to excited so the kids also need to learn that some things come with a consequence & it not always the pups fault its responding to what may be encouraged so they need to be taught to look for signs of when its getting to much or be encouraged to play games that are more calming .The kids can start teaching tricks ,they can fed pup & make it sit ,they can do so many things .

Gundogs are a mouthy breed that is natural ,pup needs to be taught what goes into mouth & what gentle is,all my gundogs from pups will carry my hand gently ,they love that human time & respond so well to gentle & what is right & wrong they also love carrying there toys .

[fiwisyd]

Thanks Showdog for your thoughts. The kids are involved, especially my daughter who has been blogging and presenting her experiences to her class. She's moved on to the tricks rather than the sit and stay but she started there and both she and the dog are loving the trick training. My son is just a bit excitable himself - it's a problem because he doesn't care that much when she gets excited and we need him to understand that it's not fair to expect the pup to understand the difference between playing with him and the behaviour the rest of us expect.

In fact, the water spray has worked surprisingly well. One of the issues we had was the the dishwasher (GRs and their food!!) - clean or dirty she would try and climb in to lick everything. Just twice with the spray and a 'No' and now she only needs the No. Before she would keep coming back no matter what we said or did (like shutting the door while she was desperately licking whatever she could!). I guess the spray feels very different to a swim or putting her head in the water. But I have made sure the children don't use the spray for a game.

thanks for suggestions everyone

[GoldenWei]

Thanks everyone. I'm actually relieved to hear everyone think that it's more like manners than her trying to be dominant. We are going to obedience classes already, and completed 5 weeks of puppy class before that, so the message will hopefully sink in and I need to persist. I'm arming the kids with spray water bottles so at least they can get her to let go when she's biting or hanging off them. The lead is a good idea too. She needs to learn to be part of the family (not banished outside, don't worry!). Our last GR was sooo well-mannered and good natured, and we didn't have kids when she was a pup so she probably didn't have the same compulsion to bite. She had a good play in the park today with an older lab and they balanced the play well. She is good with most dog body language, only the excited play is concerning. She was from a big litter but didn't leave till 8 weeks so I don't think it's that.

Very interesting about the desexing - vet told me that desexing before 6 months helps prevent breast cancer later but it seems there's more to it. Thanks for the links, I'll do more research into health and behavioural effects.

Please do not desex your golden before 6 months. They need their hormones to grow properly. The hormones tell them when to stop growing up and start filling out. You can usually tell when a golden has been desexed early (probably any dog for that matter) they will have long legs and look out of proportion. I tell all my puppy buyers, males between 12-18 months, females, atleast 9 months and preferably after their first season. I know some people don't like to deal with seasons, but it is better for them to have one. There is research into early desexing indicating that it can increase the risk of Hip Dysplaysia, in a breed where we are trying to better the hip score average and breed out this issue, I'd do everything in my power not to increase the chance of this happening.....