Fetch?

[Isabel964]

I've got a 7.5 month Kelpue and would like to teach her to fetch s ball I've thrust and bring it back, I feel this would be a great game she would enjoy, give her exercise and also use her mind. I've looked in the tricks, sport, obedience section and can't seem to find anything on it.

I've tried teaching her to take a ball from my hand and give it back (using treats) but she is so food obsessed she simply tries to find the treat and has no interest in the ball. If I try without treats she just runs off with the ball.

Does anyone know how I could teach her?

[Roova]

I'm not sure how much ball chasing uses their mind but it definitely offers some exercise.

I think there's a few ways you could approach this. I have a non ball dog so started by sitting in front of her, handing her a ball which she grabbed and dropped, but I praised and treated anyway.

At some point she start taking the ball when offered (although not holding on to it)a she would drop it for the treat. I was then able to start moving my hand around so she had to reach for the ball which led to me placing the ball on the ground which led to rolling it further and further away. She would return it to me for the treat but didn't have a great hold.

I would say 'get it' as encouragement and 'bring it here' on the way back. At that point I started practicing with all sorts of objects like pens, keys, hats etc.

I then taught hold as a separate 'trick' as it can be reasonably difficult to train. (Well when you're teaching yourself at the same time as your dog anyway!).

Sometimes I would treat with tug instead of food /praise but it slows the process a little. This was a slow and steady wins the race situation but she was only a puppy so a smart adult might pick it up quicker?

[The Spotted Devil]

Hi Isabel

I actually think your Kelpie is pretty smart - in my opinion throwing balls for dogs is one of THE worst forms of exercise in terms of the unnatural repetitive strain it puts on the body when the dog skids to a halt around the still moving ball. That said I compete in retrieving with my Springers but we rarely send the dog until the retrieve has come to a complete halt. This means the dog has time to collect rather than twisting at top speed. I hope that makes sense! Google Shirley Chong method of shaping a retrieve. Works well with a food obsessed dog. Here's a video of a recent session with my youngster - apart from all the warm up exercises notice I'm doing my training in a quiet, low distraction environment and everything is close. When we are working on other retrieving skills it's over much greater distances. In this session I introduced her to game but that's on another video.

And look what you else you can teach with a shaped retrieve!

Edited June 26, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[Willem]

Hi Isabel

I actually think your Kelpie is pretty smart - in my opinion throwing balls for dogs is one of THE worst forms of exercise in terms of the unnatural repetitive strain it puts on the body when the dog skids to a halt around the still moving ball. That said I compete in retrieving with my Springers but we rarely send the dog until the retrieve has come to a complete halt. This means the dog has time to collect rather than twisting at top speed. I hope that makes sense! Google Shirley Chong method of shaping a retrieve. Works well with a food obsessed dog. Here's a video of a recent session with my youngster - apart from all the warm up exercises notice I'm doing my training in a quiet, low distraction environment and everything is close. When we are working on other retrieving skills it's over much greater distances. In this session I introduced her to game but that's on another video.

And look what you else you can teach with a shaped retrieve!

...it is pretty much the same movements / impacts when driving / mustering sheep, cattle or goats ...with the advantage that the ball is lighter and won't fight back...and that are the traits the dogs were bred for. It is 'horses' for courses ...you wouldn't use Malteses for a sledge race...or let a mastiff race with greyhounds...

Saying this, I would be careful regarding whether the dog is desexed or not, and if so, when the desexing was done. Their is strong evidence that desexing, especially when done too early, has an impact on growth and bone structure and will increase the risk of ligament injuries and joint problems significantly.

Eta: I found that most dogs with a herding heritage get bored with fetch games pretty soon (including mine)...especially if played with an object like a stick that drops dead to the ground (a bouncing and rolling ball provides at least a little bit of action)...it is just not challenging enough. If I want to play fetch with our BC, I have to reward her for bringing the object back - conversely if I play with the flirt pole and let her chase the lure, the game has such a value for her that I don't have to reward her with additional treats.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Willem

[The Spotted Devil]

I disagree about the comparison with herding livestock. Very different use of the body. And yes, I have worked with herding dogs on sheep and cattle. Stock are generally moving at a trot at most. So the dog is not sprinting flat out. Regardless, I want my dogs to age gracefully not be riddled with arthritis by the age of 8. Some Gundog people do no warm up or body strengthening or core work - of course they still retrieve. But by the same token some of the dogs are retired much earlier than our twisting and turning agility dogs. Give them every chance I say.

Edited June 26, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[LisaCC]

Hi Isabel

I actually think your Kelpie is pretty smart - in my opinion throwing balls for dogs is one of THE worst forms of exercise in terms of the unnatural repetitive strain it puts on the body when the dog skids to a halt around the still moving ball. That said I compete in retrieving with my Springers but we rarely send the dog until the retrieve has come to a complete halt. This means the dog has time to collect rather than twisting at top speed. I hope that makes sense! Google Shirley Chong method of shaping a retrieve. Works well with a food obsessed dog. Here's a video of a recent session with my youngster - apart from all the warm up exercises notice I'm doing my training in a quiet, low distraction environment and everything is close. When we are working on other retrieving skills it's over much greater distances. In this session I introduced her to game but that's on another video.

https://vimeo.com/171676767

And look what you else you can teach with a shaped retrieve!

More videos

[persephone]

I've got a 7.5 month Kelpue and would like to teach her to fetch s ball I've thrust and bring it back, I feel this would be a great game she would enjoy, give her exercise and also use her mind. I've looked in the tricks, sport, obedience section and can't seem to find anything on it.

I've tried teaching her to take a ball from my hand and give it back (using treats) but she is so food obsessed she simply tries to find the treat and has no interest in the ball. If I try without treats she just runs off with the ball.

Does anyone know how I could teach her?

I don't play Fetch, so can't help - however -

walking on lead gives her exercise .... and can be great brain work , providing YOU guide the walk - not the dog ;)

Walk alongside me - don't pull- stop at kerbs- only toilet when/where told- do some sits/downs along the way :)

[Kavik]

Here is another good video on how to teach a retrieve :)

[Willem]

I disagree about the comparison with herding livestock. Very different use of the body. And yes, I have worked with herding dogs on sheep and cattle. Stock are generally moving at a trot at most. So the dog is not sprinting flat out. Regardless, I want my dogs to age gracefully not be riddled with arthritis by the age of 8. Some Gundog people do no warm up or body strengthening or core work - of course they still retrieve. But by the same token some of the dogs are retired much earlier than our twisting and turning agility dogs. Give them every chance I say.

...come on...

[Willem]

I've got a 7.5 month Kelpue and would like to teach her to fetch s ball I've thrust and bring it back, I feel this would be a great game she would enjoy, give her exercise and also use her mind. I've looked in the tricks, sport, obedience section and can't seem to find anything on it.

I've tried teaching her to take a ball from my hand and give it back (using treats) but she is so food obsessed she simply tries to find the treat and has no interest in the ball. If I try without treats she just runs off with the ball.

Does anyone know how I could teach her?

I don't play Fetch, so can't help - however -

walking on lead gives her exercise .... and can be great brain work , providing YOU guide the walk - not the dog ;)

Walk alongside me - don't pull- stop at kerbs- only toilet when/where told- do some sits/downs along the way :)

...you might have to jog at least to get the heart beat up a little bit...or walk in above 30 deg C...

[The Spotted Devil]

I disagree about the comparison with herding livestock. Very different use of the body. And yes, I have worked with herding dogs on sheep and cattle. Stock are generally moving at a trot at most. So the dog is not sprinting flat out. Regardless, I want my dogs to age gracefully not be riddled with arthritis by the age of 8. Some Gundog people do no warm up or body strengthening or core work - of course they still retrieve. But by the same token some of the dogs are retired much earlier than our twisting and turning agility dogs. Give them every chance I say.

...come on...

Sprinting flat out and skidding to a halt. The dog is predicting what the stock will do based on behaviour and moderating their own behaviour - collecting and changing their stride. If you think that's the same as chasing a ball then so be it.

[The Spotted Devil]

Hi Isabel

I actually think your Kelpie is pretty smart - in my opinion throwing balls for dogs is one of THE worst forms of exercise in terms of the unnatural repetitive strain it puts on the body when the dog skids to a halt around the still moving ball. That said I compete in retrieving with my Springers but we rarely send the dog until the retrieve has come to a complete halt. This means the dog has time to collect rather than twisting at top speed. I hope that makes sense! Google Shirley Chong method of shaping a retrieve. Works well with a food obsessed dog. Here's a video of a recent session with my youngster - apart from all the warm up exercises notice I'm doing my training in a quiet, low distraction environment and everything is close. When we are working on other retrieving skills it's over much greater distances. In this session I introduced her to game but that's on another video.

https://vimeo.com/171676767

And look what you else you can teach with a shaped retrieve!

More videos

Ha ha! On game? Or more tricks :p

Edited June 27, 2016 by The Spotted Devil

[ness]

Depends on the dogs natural retrieving style though. There are safe ways to play fetch. One of mine very naturally continues forward momentum and collects when catching before returning. She does get more fetch although I also have a modified version where she runs out and then comes walking towards me and catches on the walk up.

Check out this article - http://www.pawsitive...-a-power-slider

Edited June 27, 2016 by ness

[Papillon Kisses]

I've never taught fetch as my dog came to me with that skill pre-programmed, I just had to shape a better retrieve. But I wanted to say that sniffing walks are great too and paradoxically burn up lots of energy!

Dogs take in so much information with their nose and stopping to breathe it all in is calming, enjoyable and gives them lots to think about. ???? The energy expenditure of 10 minutes of sniffing is equal to a substantially longer amount of straight walking (I can't recall the exact number). Sounds strange but I suppose it's all that mental energy that goes into processing the information.

Sniffing walks can be paired with a command like "free" or "go sniff" or by a cue such as clipping on a long line if you are concerned that the dog will lose their ability to heel on command. And no, this doesn't mean it becomes a pulling extravaganza: your dog can still walk politely on a loose leash you're just letting them sniff as they were born and love to do. You could also throw in some recalls. It can be boring as all hell for the human but it's great for the dog, lol. :laugh:

Read –> TAKE YOUR DOG ON A SNIFF

Have fun with your kelpie!

[skip]

Yes, I have a kelpie and steered away from developing much of a ball fetishes. The strain on the body exists if u have a crazy ball mad dog. I turned more to using various tugs and food pouches I could throw as agility was my main interest and tugging is best for this.

My kelpie did herding as well as nose works. She loves having a job as well as lots off leash running. At your dogs age I would be training more with social walking.herding is magic if u have somewhere to do it.

My dogs love is in the suspense. Being asked to wait and then being released to do something. As we didn't always have sheep we did play herding round trees which although not the same, the best I could do. Any clubs in your area that u can attend training.

I know it is a great love for many, but ball chucking to me is pretty boring. Don't get me wrong, at the beach I throw a toy into the surf. But we also to halts, walk ups, sit to sit pretty, backwards, any command I throw at her before telling her to get it. She loves it!

They do suck at bringing the ball back to you and some young dogs like to play chases instead. Mine still tries to drop things a few steps away so hoping I will move. Don't fall for that.

I got a toy to hand by going into the bathroom or small area, asked for nose touches that she knew already, asked for a touch when she had a dropped toy in her mouth , and rewarded that. Worked but she still drops things at my feet at times. So I wait and hold out the hand. She understands and will place the toy in my hand with a great deal of noise and mumbling. Try hard!

Great dogs, lot of time training is worth it!

[Isabel964]

Thank you all, so much great help.

Roova, when I said mental exercise, I had heard that you can throw two balls, so while the dog is approaching you to give one ball it then has to work out where you are throwing the second balls...something like that.

Spotted Devil thanks for your videos, really great. Pers, I very much agree that walking is great mental exercise done correctly. Lucy and I have been attending obedience training twice a week and learning to lead and communicate and have our dogs listen to us, focus on us, so we guide the walk.

'Take your dog on a sniff' is a great post.

The Power slider article is very good. I had never considered 'fetch' as dangerous to my dog - so now I know. Thank you Spotted Devil and Willem.

Kavik, good video. I can do more on retrieving rather than 'fetch'.