Rescued Dogs Caged For Years

[BarbedWire]

I agree with you and I was not referring to you personally. It is just some of the comments in the other thread are contrary to what is being said here. I am interested because in the past I have made donations to SOS and I am now wondering if I donated wisely.

[Steve]

People kick and scream if rescue determines a dog is not suitable for rehoming or even that one dog would take up too many resources better directed at dozens of dogs rather than one and over look it for their rescue group or PTS when it becomes obvious.

There is a very large section of the "rescue' world that believe everything with a heart beat should be saved and if resources are spent that could go to other places that's O.K. as long as their no kill policy is adhered to'

The fact that this group has hung in so long and stuck to their no kill policy means that they are more likely to be given donations and seen to be the good guys by many. There is also another side to this - if I choose to donate to a rescue group because I like its policy of no kill and I like the idea that they havent given up , that I agree if its alive it deserves to be safe then Im going to get ticked off if after they take my money they change their policy and make exceptions.

Unless there is some cruelty issue and being in a pen most of the dog's life isn't counted automatically as cruelty at law then one group who believe its better for the dog to be treated differently simply don't get to call the shots or change things because they dont agree.

I wouldnt donate to them or help them because I dont agree with their policies just as I wouldnt donate to some others for a variety of reasons but seriously they have taken donations BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WORK AND THEIR PHILOSOPHIES and they do have supporters who agree with them - just because some others don't beating them up. Just takes rescue in NSW closer to being slugged with laws and new codes.

[sas]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me and nowhere near as it has been presented but no surprises there.

It's not reasonable me. The dog Neo has been in care for too long. As a rescuer you have a job to prepare these dogs for rehoming. You don't rehome resource guarders, you correct their behaviour and then rehome them. Resource guarding is one of the most common issues we see in rescue and really, it's not rocket science to deal with as I'm sure you would know.

If you can't help the dog yourself, you get in a professional until it is fixed or you give it to someone else who can fix it or euth it - you don't keep it in kennels for 8 years.

I don't believe for one minute their response because I have personally tried to help a long term dog from there before.

Edited July 11, 2016 by sas

[Loving my Oldies]

They know the dogs they know the issues, they know what happens if they place it and it doesnt work out again, they have kennels approved by council and volunteers and staff so seems to me they are in a better position to decide what is best for the dog than any observer.

That is a very strange summation, Steve :) . Remember the old saying, “Can’t see the woods for the trees.”

Have you ever been there to see for yourself?

[BarbedWire]

People kick and scream if rescue determines a dog is not suitable for rehoming or even that one dog would take up too many resources better directed at dozens of dogs rather than one and over look it for their rescue group or PTS when it becomes obvious.

There is a very large section of the "rescue' world that believe everything with a heart beat should be saved and if resources are spent that could go to other places that's O.K. as long as their no kill policy is adhered to'

The fact that this group has hung in so long and stuck to their no kill policy means that they are more likely to be given donations and seen to be the good guys by many. There is also another side to this - if I choose to donate to a rescue group because I like its policy of no kill and I like the idea that they havent given up , that I agree if its alive it deserves to be safe then Im going to get ticked off if after they take my money they change their policy and make exceptions.

Unless there is some cruelty issue and being in a pen most of the dog's life isn't counted automatically as cruelty at law then one group who believe its better for the dog to be treated differently simply don't get to call the shots or change things because they dont agree.

I wouldnt donate to them or help them because I dont agree with their policies just as I wouldnt donate to some others for a variety of reasons but seriously they have taken donations BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WORK AND THEIR PHILOSOPHIES and they do have supporters who agree with them - just because some others don't beating them up. Just takes rescue in NSW closer to being slugged with laws and new codes.

My donation would have been for a particular dog not because of the rescue's philosophy. I do have a soft spot for mastiffs.

[JRT RESCUE]

Like to set a couple of things straight the Neo has not been in kennels for over 8 years. She has been rehomed a number of occasions which hasn't worked out because of her breed type, they have had a breeder out to assess her and was going to foster her but the visit was not good. They have had trainers and behaviour people out there to help with this girl, but they will never give up trying to find her a suitable home.

Regarding time spend at the kennels, the person that said only a few hours quite obviously has not been at the kennels because the staff were there from 7.30am in the morning til at least 3 or maybe 4 each day, that included Christmas day where most boarding kennels only have staff in the morning and left in kennels the rest of the days. They also had volunteers that came and walked them and played with them. If that didn't happen then they would go out into large exercise yard twice a day to wander and do what dogs do.

Regarding this 4 year period, as some might know I also kennel my dogs and I took on a couple that were boarded at Wags and the people never came back for them so we were looking for homes, thank god none of you were looking after them with your 4 year limit.

Unfortunately the boy I had to put to sleep because of kidney failure with age as he was 10 and the girl lived on with me and had been with me for over 5 years and enjoyed a life with my volunteers of love and attention even though she didn't like me.

Then about a month ago a lady came and adopted her and now she is living on the Northern beaches like a Queen Bee and had she been cared by you lot she would be dead.

These dogs with SOS all need special homes as we all know in rescue that they come along and what makes it harder is they are not small dogs which is what most people want these days.

The trouble I see here is that some in rescue see nothing better then to try and pull people down, when others are trying their hardest for these dogs and they have not missed out on being cared for and probably had more time with people then most of you spend with your dogs because you are at work.

[Steve]

They know the dogs they know the issues, they know what happens if they place it and it doesnt work out again, they have kennels approved by council and volunteers and staff so seems to me they are in a better position to decide what is best for the dog than any observer.

That is a very strange summation, Steve :) . Remember the old saying, "Can't see the woods for the trees."

Have you ever been there to see for yourself?

It wouldn't matter whether I had been there or not what people think they see and know doesn't make it how it is. Ive been around long enough to know the assumptions people make and the judgements arent always equal to reality

I still think that based on the situation they are better able to make decisions for each dog that suits their policies than anyone else including those who have been there.

[Scottsmum]

Like to set a couple of things straight the Neo has not been in kennels for over 8 years. She has been rehomed a number of occasions which hasn't worked out because of her breed type, they have had a breeder out to assess her and was going to foster her but the visit was not good. They have had trainers and behaviour people out there to help with this girl, but they will never give up trying to find her a suitable home.

Regarding time spend at the kennels, the person that said only a few hours quite obviously has not been at the kennels because the staff were there from 7.30am in the morning til at least 3 or maybe 4 each day, that included Christmas day where most boarding kennels only have staff in the morning and left in kennels the rest of the days. They also had volunteers that came and walked them and played with them. If that didn't happen then they would go out into large exercise yard twice a day to wander and do what dogs do.

Regarding this 4 year period, as some might know I also kennel my dogs and I took on a couple that were boarded at Wags and the people never came back for them so we were looking for homes, thank god none of you were looking after them with your 4 year limit.

Unfortunately the boy I had to put to sleep because of kidney failure with age as he was 10 and the girl lived on with me and had been with me for over 5 years and enjoyed a life with my volunteers of love and attention even though she didn't like me.

Then about a month ago a lady came and adopted her and now she is living on the Northern beaches like a Queen Bee and had she been cared by you lot she would be dead.

These dogs with SOS all need special homes as we all know in rescue that they come along and what makes it harder is they are not small dogs which is what most people want these days.

The trouble I see here is that some in rescue see nothing better then to try and pull people down, when others are trying their hardest for these dogs and they have not missed out on being cared for and probably had more time with people then most of you spend with your dogs because you are at work.

Sorry JRT. Not buying it. I have massive respect for your organisation - have followed along on facebook for years - and had been tempted many a time to grab one of your dogs (You had an old girl (Sally?) who was the mirror image of my last dog but we're pretty firmly a one dog home these days - and well, now overseas but I digress) but I am not buying a lot of what you've said above. I have said further up in this thread that the statement put out by SOS sounded reasonably plausible but that does not make it OK.

You say :

"but the visit was not good" - what on earth does that even mean?

"have had trainers and behaviour people out there to help with this girl" - what no one can help her?

Whoop-dee-frikin-doo if there are 4 people at the kennels most of the day. I've cleaned kennels, I'm working at a doggy day care and doing a cattery at the moment too. I find it almost impossible to believe that the level of attention this dog in particular would be getting would NOT be equivalent to what she'd be getting in a foster or forever home. Even at a ratio of 1 human to 10 dogs in a commercial setting the level of individual attention is likely to be low.

(Sure others have a lot more at home - I wont speak to that - and will assume that like my mothers working dogs they lead well cared for lives. They're worked, fed and loved in their own special way. When they need special individual attention they get it - the difference with my mothers pack of 10+ working kelpies (who live in a communal run on chains) is that many of them are born on the farm and die on the farm many a year later. When they retire - they get moved to the house yard and they get rugged in the winter. They get primary care from 4 people - all family who know the dogs on an individual level - they're not hired help in and out for 3 hours at a time).

Unless there is someone assigned to sit with her, play with her and generally be her companion then - so what? Just because I'm physically in the building at the cattery does not mean I am spending quality time with each and every cat. Or does walking past the door to their run on the way to the litter bin count as "quality time"?

At the end of the day - we can all argue the rights and wrongs, the merits of no kill, or keeping dogs in kennels. There have been some really well considered and thought our responses across the two threads on this topic. Two which really stood out to me - which naturally I can't find now. One of which spoke about the fact that she's a large breed and now considered old. Her natural lifespan is approaching the shorter end...and at the end of the day this dog has spent the majority of her life in a run - with no special person or family to lavish love and attention on her. To tuck her up and keep her warm at night. To know *just* the right spot to scratch or the special food which sends her into overdrive. No one to notice that she's a bit slower in the mornings or struggling to get out of bed. And that's a tragedy.

[kamuzz]

Here is the thread I started on the same topic:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/266945-how-can-a-rescue-keep-a-dog-kenneled-for-8-years/

Would still like to know why their long term dogs are not advertised anywhere

[JRT RESCUE]

LIke I said she has been in 4 homes so far without success, with the breeder she didn't like her husband and being a big dog as she is damage could have been bad.

Although she gets along with some people but others including me she doesn't like and will show this. One of the volunteers tried to take her home and had to bring her back the next day because she didn't like her husband and it isn't a man thing because we had male staff there as well that could handle her.

Apparently the trainers, one which is very well know in rescue and lives not far from the kennels said until she is out of the kennels training won't make out difference. After leaving these kennels she had gone into care and will be returning to that care in the near future but because of personal things the carer had to sent her back to the kennels for only a short stay, so things are moving in the right direction, but believe me she is not a easy dog to place and when she doesn't like somebody she will let you know which from the breeder is typical of the females of this breed.

Understand what you say about 4 people but again it is whether you treat it as a job or love the animals. I know at my section I might have a couple of people but know also they don't just go in to feed, clean but to also give them love and when I walk around the kennels I always say hello to each one and give them a pat which I probably spent more time with my rescue dogs then my own. And I know that use to happen with the SOS dogs, the staff that were only paid for certain amount of hours would often spend more time doing what they had to do because they use to take time with the dogs and fuss and play with them.

Also I have taken dogs off rescue groups which have them at their homes and honestly my dogs at the kennels are more adjusted then most of them that I have taken in.

Yes they had volunteers that use to come and bring her out as well as all the other to pat and play with them, these girls use to spend nearly all day there so they could get around to all them.

Yes it is sad that she hasn't got a home as yet but that has never stop this group from trying to find a home but as you would understand it has to be the right home.

I go through it every day with people ringing me asking to adopt one of my dogs and would love to give them all a home but again it has to be the right home.

[BarbedWire]

Great post Scottsmum. Wish I could express myself so tactfully and thoughtfully.

I am not happy with a dog going from a pound situation to a long term kennel instead. The only rescues I am familiar with do not take a dog from the pound unless there is a foster home already lined up and I think this is how rescue should operate.

[tdierikx]

Bouncing 4 times due to unmanageable/dangerous behaviours in a normal family setting would start to make me think that maybe this dog just isn't a rehoming prospect... so what are the alternatives here? Long term kennelling, or euthanaisia... not much of a choice, is there?

And as said before, the dog is not ours to make the decisions for...

T.

[The Spotted Devil]

From a public safety perspective the dog sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I hope the rescue group has excellent public liability insurance. You don't tend to hear about such incidences due to confidentiality agreements but they happen enough to make large shelters think twice before re-homing such dogs.

[_PL_]

From the other thread.

Just adding that from what I saw the big dogs had a LOT of work put into them by staff and volunteers so please give them some credit for caring. Walking, playing, training, fussing, rolling around in the grass with them, getting covered in slobber.

I know JRT Rescue she was out there for years seeing staff, volunteers, dogs, cats come and go and can speak with a level of knowledge that is missing in a lot of what I've heard and read.

Sorry. Don't buy a lot of what's being said on the other thread. Sounds like a steaming pile to me.

She has no reason to lie and was never close mates with the rescue owner. And I was out there on an off for the first few years as a weekend vol. One thing I can say is that Jules the neo wasn't in there 8 years. That would have mean she arrived not long after it opened. So think to yourself; how much more has been exaggerated or made up out of thin air. On a quick skim I could see some bizarre claims and plenty of fake rescue profiles being dusted off for the occasion. Great promo for the business owner who went out to take the photos though.

I don't agree with lengthy kennelling at all. And the effects of institutionalisation can be devastating but I'm not expert enough or spent any time with the dogs in question to say what they were feeling. 99% of the time I was with the small dogs.

The quarantine section was literally life saving for some dogs I rescued because with seniors at home we couldn't risk illness coming in and wouldn't have been able to rescue them without 2 - 3 weeks grace.

&

Ironically now the rescue has been moved out it will again be home to breeding dogs, for however many years they produce popular breed pups and nobody is making noise about that. Sometimes I wonder if Jules' family was born out there when their dogues and neos were being sold. Old customers of the place used to come into the office confused, expecting to be able to pick up a new pup from the display pens.

[Rascalmyshadow]

If this dog is as bad as I'm reading and failed in four homes including with a trainer, why has she not been euthanised all ready?

[_PL_]

I don't know. It's easy to say but how do you do it to a heathy dog who I assume believes she is at home and as far as she is concerned, has a whole lot of owners (might not be the best word). A kennel full of volunteers and staff who love her and spend time with her to make sure she is happy. I don't know. At what specific moment do you decide?

[Rascalmyshadow]

I don't know. It's easy to say but how do you do it to a heathy dog who I assume believes she is at home and as far as she is concerned, has a whole lot of owners (might not be the best word). A kennel full of volunteers and staff who love her and spend time with her to make sure she is happy. I don't know. At what specific moment do you decide?

As soon as it was obvious she had such aggression problems and wasn't rehomable.

[JRT RESCUE]

That is very easy to say and not easy to do because if you have watched the video of her done just recently you wouldn't think butter wouldn't meld in her mouth. I agree with that some dogs are not suitable for rehoming but then I don't say I am a 'No Kill rescue" which a lot of groups do. And over the years have made that decision which has not been easy but like my vet says to me, you only need one back article in the newspaper saying that dog came from your rescue to undo all the good you have done.

Regarding kennels I rehome approx 250 to 300 dogs a year, this is something I would not be able to do without the kennels, and I also don't believe in taking dogs from the pounds and putting into homes with other dogs which is putting them in danger as you never know what they are carrying which a lot of rescue do day after day and quite often get break outs of parvo.

Yes I have talks with the owner of the property who believes she could have come from similar lines he had there but did remove them from his kennel because of temperament. But also the breeder that came to see also said to me that usually doesn't rescue females of the breed because of the problem of rehoming them and again they are not a breed for most people.

People always talk about a dog and being institutional but I honestly say I didn't see that there with these dogs maybe because it was made up of people that knew these dogs were rescue and gave them that extra love and that shows by the way she trusts the volunteers that came to walk and play with her and the many staff that looked after her which she wouldn't have done otherwise.

So it is very easy to say put her to sleep, but I bet I wouldn't see a line of people offering to take her to the vet. Because I know when I have had to do it knowing full well it is the way to go there are still plenty of tears at the time.

[juice]

As she probably doesn't have long left i would just not rehome her and let her live her life as she is, as long as steps are in place where she can't get an an unsuspecting person.

Still no one is addressing other dogs that have been there years without being advertised, are they too unrehomeable? I'm sure i read somewhere about the wolfie girl being dodgy?

[Rascalmyshadow]

I have rescued and have made the decision to PTS a couple of dogs, one for aggression and one to serious health issues, yep wasn't easy but it was the right thing to do.